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09-30-2022, 02:39 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: Long Beach Ca
Vessel Name: Freebird
Vessel Model: 1997 Mainship 350
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 466
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Wire butt splice
Tried the new to me butt splices that have a ring of solder and also is a clear heat shrink. No crimping. Slide the two ends into each other, slide the splice over the bare wire then heat till the solder melts and the heat shrink shrinks. Installed a new bilge pump and float switch with these.
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09-30-2022, 03:03 PM
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#2
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TF Site Team
City: MX, thru Canal to Bahamas
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 3,384
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Sounds interesting. Link?
__________________
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
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09-30-2022, 05:15 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,299
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From a Cruising World article: If you’re still wondering if soldering is better, remember that American Boat & Yacht Council Standards exclude solder as the sole means of electrical connection for wire terminations. If you’re the belt-and-suspenders sort, you can solder after crimping.
https://www.cruisingworld.com/how/crimp-or-solder/
I’ve heard that vibrations on a boat can work harden a wire where it enters the solder. I would think the heat shrink would prevent that. I never used those butt connectors but I did sell them in my store. The heat shrink with adhesive crimp connectors sold best.
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
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09-30-2022, 06:58 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Sandusky Bay
Vessel Name: Escape
Vessel Model: Mariner 37
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,427
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Why does ABYC exclude solder as the sole means of electrical connection for wire terminations?
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Escape
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09-30-2022, 07:34 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
City: North NJ
Vessel Name: Bassey
Vessel Model: 17' Bass
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadedToTexas
Why does ABYC exclude solder as the sole means of electrical connection for wire terminations?
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It has no mechanical strength
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09-30-2022, 07:37 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
City: North NJ
Vessel Name: Bassey
Vessel Model: 17' Bass
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 438
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I have seen these butt connectors but a good crimp with the right tools are far superior then anyrhing solder for boat wiring. Solder is for pipes and circut boards.
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09-30-2022, 07:48 PM
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadedToTexas
Why does ABYC exclude solder as the sole means of electrical connection for wire terminations?
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Probably because if it gets hot it can melt the solder and there isn’t a mechanical connection. Also solder can cause the stranded wire to become hard at the solder.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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09-30-2022, 07:49 PM
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#8
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Guru
City: Stockton
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: 1979 Island Gypsy 44 Flush Aft Deck
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 826
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I'll bet I could solder a butt and it would take more pull to break it than a crimp.
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09-30-2022, 07:54 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 871
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I have used them on several things (non boat items). They do work. On some I had problems getting the heat right and melted through the shrink plastic exposing the soldered wire. But that was just an issue of heat and patience. I didnt get a great feeling from them. The Chinese butt splices and terminals that are crimp style with the shrink tube already attached like the Wirefy, used along with the appropriate crimper IMO is still much preferred.
I could see myself using them on very small gauge wire where crimping can be a bit difficult.
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09-30-2022, 09:55 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Los Angeles
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Riverat
I'll bet I could solder a butt and it would take more pull to break it than a crimp.
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If done correctly, both will have about the same strength but the solder
will weaken when hot enough.
__________________
Science doesn't care what you believe. -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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10-01-2022, 12:21 AM
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#11
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Guru
City: Anacortes
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 586
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I think hopcar has it right. The concern is that soldered wire become rigid and vibration could cause it to break. Maybe the heat shrink over the soldered connection would prevent this. Now just convince ABYC so your surveyor won't complain.
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10-01-2022, 12:37 AM
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#12
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
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Why would you use something that doesn’t meet ABYC standards? It isn’t an issue using approved crimped butt connectors. It is really easy to do it correctly so why not?
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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10-01-2022, 01:28 AM
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#13
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
Why would you use something that doesn’t meet ABYC standards? It isn’t an issue using approved crimped butt connectors. It is really easy to do it correctly so why not?
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I don’t really remember ABYC’s reason on soldered connections. I seem to remember something about vibrations but I never really concerned myself as crimp was approved and solder was not. Nothing is easier than the crimp so I never worried about the why.
OP probably thought he had found an easier better method for butt splicing and was unaware of ABYC’s stance on soldered connections. Can’t blame someone for trying to upgrade their work.
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10-01-2022, 01:47 AM
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#14
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Guru
City: Stockton
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: 1979 Island Gypsy 44 Flush Aft Deck
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 826
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I use the approved crimps with heat shrink and a high dollar ratchet crimper. But I still think a soldered joint (with a sleeve, not just twisted) is a superior connection. For small gauge stuff I like molex pins and housings.
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10-01-2022, 09:54 AM
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#15
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TF Site Team
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,808
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For the best info on marine wire termination I refer to Rod's (TF's commercial member CMS) excellent investigation and conclusions. He includes a section on solder vs crimp that some will never agree with but he even references AMP’s internal “Fundamentals of Connector Design” course.
https://marinehowto.com/marine-wire-termination/
I'd love to see a comparable study that supports soldering vs crimping but doubt anyone can provide a link
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
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10-01-2022, 10:47 AM
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#16
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,299
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From the article Don posted the link to.
“The terminated conductor then does not have the flexure strength characteristic of strand wire, and should behave more like solid wire which fails quickly in flexure testing“
Once the stranded wire is soldered, it becomes solid wire at that point and is not as flexible.
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
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10-01-2022, 11:17 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: Los Angeles
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,487
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This anecdote does not apply to the butt splice question but is solder related:
My last boat had a 24V bow thruster powered from the ER with beefy 00
cable. The installer had soldered the cables into the copper terminals at the thruster.
This worked fine for years.
While on a harbor cruise I lost steering due to a leaking hydraulic cylinder.
I used the thruster as a steering aid to get back to the dock and, not
surprisingly, really heated up the thruster motor. We made it back to our
dock where the thruster failed completely. I feared the worst but when I
looked at the motor, it was fine but one of the power cables had desoldered itself and fallen away.
I got a large cable crimping tool and crimped that cable. The motor was fine.
The steering cylinder just needed a set of seals - another straightforward fix.
__________________
Science doesn't care what you believe. -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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10-01-2022, 01:36 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
City: Stuart
Vessel Name: Destiny
Vessel Model: Trojan 10.8M Sportfish
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 100
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My favorite has always been the ray-chem environmental splices. They are mechanically crimped and have a slide over heat shrink sleeve that seals it up nicely. Been using for years, never had a problem.
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10-01-2022, 09:05 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
City: Canadensis
Vessel Name: Last Hurrah
Vessel Model: Ta Chiao/CT35 Sun Deck
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 208
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Solder/Crimp & Seal Butt Connectors
Solder/crimp & seal butt connectors. They are pricey.
Bruce
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10-01-2022, 09:41 PM
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#20
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Guru
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaDestiny
My favorite has always been the ray-chem environmental splices. They are mechanically crimped and have a slide over heat shrink sleeve that seals it up nicely. Been using for years, never had a problem.
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Those are still the standard on aircraft wiring repairs. Nothing better, especially for small wire. Some of the new Chinese crimp/shrink tube is almost as good.
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