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Old 10-02-2022, 12:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaDestiny View Post
My favorite has always been the ray-chem environmental splices. They are mechanically crimped and have a slide over heat shrink sleeve that seals it up nicely. Been using for years, never had a problem.
I was introduced years ago to non insulted butt connectors and shrink tube. I have all the different sizes and guages in the ring, spade connectors also. No holes to get punched in the insulation for corrosion to have a place to start. They are the only connectors I use.
I looked up yours and they appear to be similar but more dollars.
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Old 10-02-2022, 12:27 PM   #22
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From a very qualified marine engineer friend....

"The feds accept solder sleeve splices on aircraft then they should be good enough for toy boats in spite of the ABYC gurus.....

I have used them for years in aircraft (both experimental and in Part 135 service) and exposed them to all the horrors an aircraft can experience and never had one fail.

AC 21-99 Aircraft Wiring and Bonding Chapter 3 Section 2

Solder sleeve terminations consist of a heat
shrinkable insulation sleeve with an integral
solder preformed with flux and thermal indicator,
and two integral rings of sealing material. When
the solder sleeve is placed over a cable and
heated, the solder melts and flows connecting the
ground lead to the shield. The outer sleeve
shrinks and the thermoplastic insert melts,
encapsulating the termination. The result is a
soldered, strain relieved, environmentally
protected termination. Solder sleeves are
available with or without preinstalled leads."0
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Old 10-04-2022, 08:02 AM   #23
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USAF aircraft maintenance tech. Back in 1995-6 ish we moved from soldering and waxed twine for wire bundles to crimps and solder because the connection fails less. We all thought it was stupid as we knew what was best. Turns out like most things, we did not. Ha ha. Butt splices with proper support last a very long time. If you’re not trained in high reliability soldering your joint may have impurities or a bad connection increasing resistance. Also, to the folks saying their wires heated to a point where the solder melted, you ought to check your fusing protection. That should never fail in that manner.
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Old 10-04-2022, 10:37 AM   #24
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I looked at that section - AC 21-99 Aircraft Wiring and Bonding Chapter 3 Section 2 - and see it deals with attachment for cable shielding. A later section does deal with "primary" conductors but I have to believe there are very strict specs and training req'd to perform an acceptable solder joint. Not exactly something a DIY'er would necessarily be capable of and the acceptable shrink tubing isn't anything most boaters will have aboard... certainly not what Amazon sells for solder butt connectors.
I will stay with quality butt crimp connectors and quality crimp tool - recognizing that there is junk for both that should be avoided.
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Old 10-04-2022, 04:25 PM   #25
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It is much easier for a novice to get a quality crimp wit a quality ratcheting crimper than for a novice to get a quality solder joint.
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Old 10-07-2022, 12:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jclays View Post
Tried the new to me butt splices that have a ring of solder and also is a clear heat shrink. No crimping. Slide the two ends into each other, slide the splice over the bare wire then heat till the solder melts and the heat shrink shrinks. Installed a new bilge pump and float switch with these.
When those first came out a few years ago, I remember reading the concern that they don't have sufficient solder to properly penetrate down into the wire strands to make the most efficient connection. Not sure how real that was but expect it would impact applications that were at or near the wire load capacity.

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Old 10-07-2022, 02:12 PM   #27
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I've been using these for a few years and like them. When I use crimps I also solder, so it saves time and it's convenient with shrink tubing in place. I've cut some open and the solder does penetrate the wire strands if you you enough heat.
In my life I've found dozens of crimped connectors that either were making poor contact, pulled out, or failed in some other way. Unless you're an idiot, solder ensures a good contact and the wire won't pull out.
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Old 10-07-2022, 02:19 PM   #28
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Why does ABYC exclude solder as the sole means of electrical connection for wire terminations?
Primarily, if the wire momentarily overheats, the solder can release the wire, creating a short elsewhere or it can bride AC and DC systems. Especially true for this low melting point solder.
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Old 10-07-2022, 02:20 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by TowLou View Post
It has no mechanical strength

Reason: also b/c solder, running into the wire strands, stiffens it thus it will work-harden & fail from vibration like a single strand wire. Solder has plenty of mechanical strength. We soft solder copper pipes that carry 1000 psi and have tested them to 5000 psi
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Old 10-07-2022, 02:44 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
I've been using these for a few years and like them. When I use crimps I also solder, so it saves time and it's convenient with shrink tubing in place. I've cut some open and the solder does penetrate the wire strands if you you enough heat.
In my life I've found dozens of crimped connectors that either were making poor contact, pulled out, or failed in some other way. Unless you're an idiot, solder ensures a good contact and the wire won't pull out.
Thank you for cutting some open and taking a look. Always good to hear from someone with direct experience.

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Old 10-07-2022, 03:22 PM   #31
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Right or wrong... For 40 years, I've soldered, covered with shrink wrap and liquid tape. NEVER had a problem. YMMV...
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Old 10-08-2022, 10:37 AM   #32
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There's actually no issue with soldering, it just can't be the sole source of connection. While I'd argue it's unnecessary, you can crimp, then solder the terminal end of the crimp, that's runs zero risk of solder running into the strands and leading to conductor failure. That's covered in this article https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/crimping-etiquette/
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Old 10-09-2022, 09:00 AM   #33
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I have had bad luck with the solder included butt connectors, and they are expensive. I use a pencil torch and it seems I frequently burn through the shrink sleeve getting the solder hot enough to melt. I like using solder and shrink sleeve for connections that are in wet locations. Butt connectors are fine for other apps, especially if they have shrink sleeve ends. I have had good service from soldered battery connectors, but appreciate how they could overheat and melt. Though if that happens there are other problems and it might be better to melt the connection than start a fire!
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Old 10-09-2022, 10:57 AM   #34
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I have been an aircraft and helicopter mechanic for 36 years and have repaired my share of broken wires. I definitely feel I have seen and repaired more solder joints than crimped joints.

But it is also my opinion that doing a quality job with quality practices and using quality materials VS shoddy job and shoddy materials and shoddy practices FAR outweighs the differences between solder VS crimp alone.

Of course IMO this only applies to low current carrying wires.

But overall with the availability of modern crimpers and modern crimp connectors and shrink tube I haven't soldered anything in years unless if was the type of switch that must have a solder connection.
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Old 10-09-2022, 12:07 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DAntonio View Post
There's actually no issue with soldering, it just can't be the sole source of connection. While I'd argue it's unnecessary, you can crimp, then solder the terminal end of the crimp, that's runs zero risk of solder running into the strands and leading to conductor failure. That's covered in this article https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/crimping-etiquette/
FROM THE EDITOR
Been meaning to ask why your links start with a topic that is different from the intended. Always interesting, just curious. What if someone thinks they arrived at the wrong link and do not read through non related article.
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Old 10-09-2022, 08:42 PM   #36
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Ordinarily, I use crimp connectors. But for the really small wires, the soldered connectors are great. I use a heat gun to melt the solder.
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Old 10-10-2022, 01:07 AM   #37
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FROM THE EDITOR
Been meaning to ask why your links start with a topic that is different from the intended. Always interesting, just curious. What if someone thinks they arrived at the wrong link and do not read through non related article.
Each feature article is prefaced by an editorial. For the last couple of years we have changed the title format to clarify that. I just updated this article so the title indicates the editorial is about CO poisoning, and the feature article is about crimping.
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