What Nav lights do you have?

[7tiger7]

Am thinking of upgrading my navlights to larger / brighter lights.

The one's currently on my boat are legal - but tiny. Thinking of upgrading to larger incadecent fixtures, or larger LED fixtures. I'd love to have LED - but the cost of 5 new lights (port, stbd, fore, aft, anchor) will add up quickly... would be close to $1k.

Incadecent lights would cost WAY less... maybe 1/3 or 1/4.

Anyone here upgraded their nav lights? Any sugestions on brand, model #, LED or Incadecent?

 

[7tiger7]

Oh and here is my current navlight - you can see it just above the horns...

 

[Marin]

We have and use the boat's original lighting. All the nav lights use 12vdc incandescent bulbs. The cost and effort to switch our lights over to LEDs is not worth it to us because we almost never run after dark and the only times we have so far have been being a bit late getting back to Bellingham. So at most we have run perhaps a half hour to an hour after sunset. Our stock anchor light is plenty bright, and we often use an oil lantern for an anchor light, which is actually even brighter due to its Fresnel lens. So we've not deemed it worthwhile to change what we have. If we did run a lot at night or ran in an area where there was a lot of traffic at night (there isn't here), or where there were lots of lights on shore, getting brighter and more brilliant nav lights could be a good idea.

 

[7tiger7]

I used to run at night VERY often on my sailboat - perhaps 75% of the time. Sometimes offshore, on overnight runs.
But now - not so sure if I'd be running at night often... most likely I'd be anchoring out overnight.
Maybe I'll just upgrade to an LED anchor light... and larger incandescent running lights.
I just realized I mispelled "incandescent" in my poll... sorry guys. Spell check didn't pick it up.

 

[Larry M]

We hang around with a lot of sail-boaters and many have changed to LEDs for their efficiency.** There seems to be a general consensus that they are great but there seems to be more than the occasional failure.* If you do go to LEDs, make sure that they have a good warranty

We have Hella incandescent navigation lights and other than one bulb failure we have no complaints.* We are using the 25 watt bulbs that are the same for all 4 lights.

 

[Marin]

Totally off topic, sorry Phillip (Phil?), but as you are in Boston, do they still run the passenger ferries from the waterfront over to the airport?* In 1998 I and my crew were sent on a round-the-world shoot for a month on a joint Boeing-Airbus project to produce a video about the benefits of using rail to get people and freight to airports instead of cars and trucks.

We shot in six or seven countries and then our last stop was Boston, where they wanted us to shoot the passenger ferries that shuttled back and forth between the city and the airport. Arrangements had been made for us to ride the boats for half a day, shooting the wheelhouse operations as well as people getting on and off and whatnot. Pretty neat idea, I thought, since driving across to the airport seemed a real pain. The ferry was the first boat I'd been on that didn't have a wheel. Just a little joystick was all.

I also added a couple of days vacation to the end of the trip so when the crew went home I rented a car and went down to Battleship Cove where I'd made arrangements to get on board the restored Elco PT boat there as part of the research for the project I'm working on now. It was November and rainy and cold and there wasn't anyone at Battleship Cover other than the staff and me. I had to go hunt up the curator of the PT museum who at the time had his office on the battleship Massachusetts . I took the opportunity to check out the whole ship and it was eerie walking around on this totally deserted battleship. Then I spent about three hours on and in the PT and that was really neat.

Anyway, from what I saw of it then and on previous trips , Boston seems like a very interesting town to live in or near.* But, twelve years later, I'm curious if the airport ferries are still running.

Back on topic, the photo is of one of our nameboards.* I made the nameboards themselves, but the nav lights are original to the boat.* I'm not even sure it would be possible to convert them to LED without some major modifications to the bases.


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 21st of January 2012 03:15:51 PM

 

[Tom.B]

Stick with the incandescents, but upgrade your anchor light to LED. The cost savings isn't worth it on a powerboat because any time you need to use them you are under power. Except, of course, at anchor. Thus, making the anchor light LED is a smarter move.

 

[Moonstruck]

GonzoF1 wrote:
Stick with the incandescents, but upgrade your anchor light to LED. The cost savings isn't worth it on a powerboat because any time you need to use them you are under power. Except, of course, at anchor. Thus, making the anchor light LED is a smarter move.

*That's what I did.

 

[Datenight]

Me too.

 

[koliver]

I tossed all the wimpy little lights that were OE, except the anchor light. the newer units, like the black one in your first pic, are brighter, and so far have lasted 18 yrs. The anchor light got a new bulb last yr, first in31 yrs. If I was upgrading again, I would do as Gonzo, Don, Datenight, except I might put the anchor light on a solar panel of its own, so as never to worry that I left it on.

In 15 yrs of CCGA inspections, I have seen many of the older nav light units with water intrusion, corrosion, resulting in no light. The black ones not bad at all.

 

[Moonstruck]

If you are changing only the incadescent bulbs to LEDs, you must be careful to use only LEDs that are certified to the fixture. *The replacement bulb for the 40 watt Aqua Signal anchor light was $49.95, but was certified for the 2 mile visibility required.

My navigation lights have not been changed because the bulbs have no certified replacement LED, and the alternator is feeding them when operating.

 

[C lectric]

I changed my old Perkos many years ago to the Aqua Signal.
The Perko lenses had faded to the point of being difficult to distinguish from white. Even though I could have purchased new lenses I didn't want to.
The Aquas are now more than three times the age of the Perkos and still show excellent colour - better lense material. As yet Aqua doesn't offer an LED replacement for my units that i know of.

I regularily check that the bulbs are still working as we do still travel in crummy weather and once in a while at night.

For my anchor light I use an oil lamp that was designed to be an anchor light.

 

[7tiger7]

Marin -

Which model nav light is that in your picture? Aqua Signal model 40 or 41 it seems? That is the style I'm looking for. The name board looks beautiful, by the way. And yes, they still run water taxis for sure from downtown to the airport, and perhaps a ferry as well (but i think just water taxi). Ferries (high speed) run from downtown to other towns in the harbor (Quincy, Hingham, Hull) as well as to places like Salem (outside the harbor, about a 20nm run). And also to Provincetown, on Cape Cod.

Boston is a beautiful city, with nice boating for about 3 months only. It's a nice place to visit - but I HATE living here. Absurdly expensive (taxi meter STARTS at about $12 when you sit down - then a few $ $ per each mile - we have the MOST expensive taxi fare rate in all of the US). Roads are a mess - I hit a pothole so deep once that the bottom of my car's oilpan was sheared off (not a sports car - just a SAAB 900). Taxes are out of this world... I pay about 5 different kinds of tax on my car (registration fee, plates fee, sales tax, excise tax, inspection fee, $50 drivers lisc. renewal) EVERY YEAR (except sales tax). Gas is about $0.50 higher per gallon than anywhere but Manhattan. I think people here are major a-holes (people here take pride in affixing "MASS-hole" bumper stickers to their cars). The weather is terrible - I'd say we get maybe a week or so of really "nice" days per year (not bitter cold, or not oppressive humid days...)
Politically - don't get me started. Our attorney general has publicly said that in Mass it is "not illegal to be illegal [immigrant". Some towns have OUTLAWED flying the US flag over any city buildings, stating that the USA is a terrorist state (they fly UN flag instead). The idea of defending your self or property is non-existent (ie, about 2 years ago, inthe MACY's in Auburn, MA, a young boy - 5 or 6 i think - was sexually assaulted in the men's room by an illegal alien. The boy's father heard him screaming, ran inside, caught the man raping the boy, and punched the man. The illegal alien was given immunity, not charged, and not deported. The father is still in jail for aggravated assault). We spent $20 BILLION to make a 1 mile long tunnel - which has collapsed several times in the 10 years since it was built (killing people), and required millions of dollars per year in 24 hour a day pumping to keep dry as it keeps flooding from ground water... and we still pay tolls to fix it... ironically, we don't pay tolls to go through the tunnel - but on the other highways around it - ie, $1.50 to go a mile into downtown, etc). The subway was $0.85 when I moved here in 1994. In 2000, it went to $1.00. It is now going to over $3.00, and they have shut down subway lines instead of adding more as promised. Roads here get worse instead of better. ie, there are a few major boulevards which enter/exit downtown. They used to be 3 lanes in each direction. The city in the last few years made them ONE LANE roads - but added huge bicycle lanes. Traffic now is a mess, 24/7. The mayor (Mumbles Menino) has stated that his goal is to create MORE traffic, reduce parking (which costs about $30 for 30 minutes in a garage - I'm serious), and make it harder to drive in the city. But you get free parking in some places if you drive a hybrid. I drive my GF to work - a 5 mile round trip. It takes me an hour to go there and back by car. 1 hour for 5 miles (and that is when the WX is good, no snow, etc). And there are other small, illogical laws (ie, I wanted to purchase a handgun years ago, when it was still somewhat possible, a SIG SAUER P230 - similar to a Walther PPK like James Bond used to use - in MASS, that gun is legal ONLY if you buy it in silver finish - but ILLEGAL if you buy it in black - since black makes it look like an assault weapon).
Sigh. Sorry to vent... like I said - beautiful place to visit - but I hate living here.



-- Edited by 7tiger7 on Saturday 21st of January 2012 11:39:21 PM


-- Edited by 7tiger7 on Saturday 21st of January 2012 11:42:03 PM

 

[Marin]

7tiger7 wrote:Which model nav light is that in your picture? Aqua Signal model 40 or 41 it seems?

*All the external nav light hardware on our boat is bronze and dates from 1973.* My guess is that it was made in Asia somewhere as the boat was built in Singapore.* I do not recall any brand names or logos on the light frames or lenses.

I mean to say water taxis in my previous post, not ferries.

And while it was a long time ago, I've driven in Boston and it was definitely a challenge.* The lane markings, when they were visible at all, were treated merely as suggestions.* I finally figured out that the trick to successful driving in the city was to get out front of the pack and stay there.* That way you could use whatever part of the road you wanted.* As long as everyone else was behind you, it was far less stressful.

I assume the tunnel you refer to is the infamous "Big Dig?"

But I think every city has it's f*ck ups.* Seattle, by and large, does mostly stupid things these days.* (Which come to think of it pretty much defines the whole country).* We have freeway on ramps that put you in the fast lane, not the low lane.* We have a bazillion dollar light rail transit system that takes people from where they don't want to be to where they don't want to go and has had zero effect on traffic congestion.* The list goes on and on, and the elected officials mirror the US government's in that they are more inept and incompetent with every election.

So Boston is a pretty typical American city I would say.* Unlike Seattle, however, Boston and the surrounding area at least has an impressive history, particularly from the days when America was actually a competent collection of people who were accomplishing things to be proud of.

Seattle has the Space Needle.

 

[7tiger7]

I've always wanted to head out to the PNW to see Seattle and Portland (and Vancouver). I've heard it's very nice there - except for the rainy WX. Oh and we have only ourselves to blame here in Boston - twice in the last 10 years we had a referendum to reduce taxes (either sales or income) - and the people voted to raise - BOTH! So we have had an increase on our sales tax, income tax, real estate tax, excise tax. Along with an increase in all fees (which are also a tax, basically - ie, registrations, etc).
Oh - and don't forget the $1000 to $2000 a year fine if you do NOT have health insurance... thanks Romney!
Sigh...

 

[Marin]

7tiger7 wrote:
I've always wanted to head out to the PNW to see Seattle and Portland (and Vancouver).

The best thing about Seattle is that it's a short drive to BC, which is why I really moved to the PNW.* I live here in spite of Seattle, not because of it. It's also a big reason we keep our boat in Bellngham--- it's about as close as we can keep it to the Gulf Islands in BC.

Before moving to the Seattle area I tried real hard to get a job with Canada's independent television network, and interviewed with them.* Unforunately, while they said they'd love to hire me, it was at a time when non-Canadians could only get jobs in Canada if they had a profession that was in short supply and high demand.* Like brain surgeon.* A cameraman-assistant director was not one of these professions.

In my view, Washington State is nice (other than Seattle-Tacoma) but Vancouver and the rest of BC is much nicer.* It's where we boat as much as we can, go halibut fishing, and have taken all our camping and floatplane trips.* I should add that SE Alaska and the Yukon are every bit as great as BC is.

 

[Anode]

I have upgraded all of the lighting on Scout to LED's. Nav, deck and interior. Nav, deck are all new fixtures. Interior is a mix of new fixtures and upgraded original fixtures. A personal choice is all I can say.

 

[psneeld]

7tiger7 wrote:
Am thinking of upgrading my navlights to larger / brighter lights.

The one's currently on my boat are legal - but tiny. Thinking of upgrading to larger incadecent fixtures, or larger LED fixtures. I'd love to have LED - but the cost of 5 new lights (port, stbd, fore, aft, anchor) will add up quickly... would be close to $1k.

Incadecent lights would cost WAY less... maybe 1/3 or 1/4.

Anyone here upgraded their nav lights? Any sugestions on brand, model #, LED or Incadecent?

* The Hella 2984 series (I think that's your first light pic) is Top in my book.* We have them on our assistance towing fleet and in the 10 years of operating our boats I have never seen an outage due to corrosion...just replace the bulb and good to go.* And our 26 foot shamrocks are submarines...those lights live under sheets of VERY heavy spray.* This model has a bayonet bulb and is so bright we had to make shadow boards (screens)*because like most lights...they really don't meet the NAVRULEs.* They are so bright...you can see the sidelight plastic lens a LONG ways behind the boat.* Remember if you have screens,*they are supposed to be painted flat black on the inside...not like the cute but incorrect Ranger tugs that paint theirs red and green.

The smaller series Hella's are very good but have festoon bulbs which I have never liked but they seem to be OK.* If you want BRIGHT...then the 2984 series are REALLY bright.

Aqua Signal seem OK to...just prefer the Hellas because you don't need a screwdriver to replace a bulb...the little catch on the bottom is great.

As others have said...hopefully you have an alternator that can keep up with your nav lights so LED is not huge...and when/if you find LED replacements at a good cost/reliability...the bayonet 2984 series will probably accept them.

*

*



-- Edited by psneeld on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 07:14:29 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 07:15:57 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 07:22:19 AM

 

[dvd]

Moonstruck wrote:
If you are changing only the incadescent bulbs to LEDs, you must be careful to use only LEDs that are certified to the fixture. *

Before I replaced the interior receptacles for all of my 25 year old navigation lights with Bebi bulbs, I did a little research on the regs. There have been extensive discussions on these regs in other forums with many different conclusions, but my UNPROFESSIONAL conclusion FOR MYSELF (i.e. I'm not trying to convince anyone I am right and they are wrong) is that the regs (33 CFR Part 183) apply only to manufacturers and importers of recreational boats after Nov 1, 2003 -- they do not apply to upgrades or replacements or even*modifications*by a boat owner. Even the CG has stated "The rule does not apply to the replacement of existing navigation lights on vessels completed before the designated effective date" (Boating Safety Circular 83, September 2003).

I have*heard/read the arguments regarding liability in case of an accident, and will accept that risk (which I think is minimal). Subjectively, there is no doubt that my new bulbs enhance my visibility compared to the old bulbs, and now I don't have to "tap" my starboard running light to get it to come on, like I used to*

.

*

dvd

*

 

[Keith]

My boat came with Aqua Signal series 41 (I think that's the #). The lenses were so faded and cracked after 20+ years, I looked into replacing them. For about $20/fixture more, I got entirely new ones and replaced them all. REALLY bright!

 

[psneeld]

dvd wrote:Moonstruck wrote:
If you are changing only the incadescent bulbs to LEDs, you must be careful to use only LEDs that are certified to the fixture. *

Before I replaced the interior receptacles for all of my 25 year old navigation lights with Bebi bulbs, I did a little research on the regs. There have been extensive discussions on these regs in other forums with many different conclusions, but my UNPROFESSIONAL conclusion FOR MYSELF (i.e. I'm not trying to convince anyone I am right and they are wrong) is that the regs (33 CFR Part 183) apply only to manufacturers and importers of recreational boats after Nov 1, 2003 -- they do not apply to upgrades or replacements or even*modifications*by a boat owner. Even the CG has stated "The rule does not apply to the replacement of existing navigation lights on vessels completed before the designated effective date" (Boating Safety Circular 83, September 2003).

I have*heard/read the arguments regarding liability in case of an accident, and will accept that risk (which I think is minimal). Subjectively, there is no doubt that my new bulbs enhance my visibility compared to the old bulbs, and now I don't have to "tap" my starboard running light to get it to come on, like I used to*

.

*

dvd

*
*and they

*assuming the light bulbs retain the proper characteristics* for sector (which is very important if your lights don't have screens) and brightness.

I don't personally know...do LEDs have different wave lengths and may appear brighter but may not be seen as far?* I really don't know but I have read some on LEDs and how they differ.

As far as liability...it's all about the operator.* The manufacturer and boatbuilder will get off very lightly compared to the operator if your lights are determined to be a major factor in a collision.


-- Edited by psneeld on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 09:49:54 AM

 

[Penny Lane]

Depending on the construction of your lights, this may be a very inexpensive upgrade.

We lined the insides of our nav light fixtures with SOLAS reflective tape, available at most chandleries. *The intended use of these strips is to stick on PFD's, rafts, etc. They are highly reflective.

Our lights, and maybe yours too, were bright and shiny inside when new. *But now, they are dull. *Lining the inside with SOLAS tape makes a big improvement in light output. While you are in there, clean up your contacts.

Is there a recommendation for something to spray on the contacts to make it easier to remove the bulbs later?

cheers


-- Edited by Penny Lane on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 09:57:01 AM

 

[rwidman]

I upgraded all the lighting on my boat to LED. Interior, exterior, navigation lights and anchor light.

While people often suggest using automotive LED replacement "bulbs", these don't typically have the required angle of illumination and putting a re or green filter in front of a white LED results in verry little light output.

I used LED replacement bulbs designed and manufactured for marine navigation and anchor lights. They work fine and keep the original appearance of the boat intact. West Marine and other vendors sell them. Dr LED is one brand.

"Dielectric grease" is good for preventing corrosion of electrical contacts and for insuring that the bulbs can be removed at a later date. West Maine carries it, but it's also available in any auto parts store. Don't go hog wild a thin film will do.

Note: "dielectric" means "doesn't conduct electricity". That's why you can use it in a lamp socket without shorting between the contacts. When you insert the bulb (or plug, it's good for that application as well), the grease is scraped away from the actual metal to metal contact surfaces but remains around them to seal them from moisture and air.


-- Edited by rwidman on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 10:08:37 AM

 

[Moonstruck]

psneeld wrote:

I don't personally know...do LEDs have different wave lengths and may appear brighter but may not be seen as far?* I really don't know but I have read some on LEDs and how they differ.

As far as liability...it's all about the operator.* The manufacturer and boatbuilder will get off very lightly compared to the operator if your lights are determined to be a major factor in a collision.

*I see the range as the big problem. *We don't know what it is. *I can say that a good admirality lawyer will know the rules and check everything to protect his client. *It is a miniscule chance that it could be a problem, but that's one I don't want to deal with. *If I were changing the navigation lights, it would be the whole fixture that is certified.*

On another note, because of the different wave lengths mentioned, it is important to get the LED replacement in the color of the lense that it will be behind> *A white LED will not work so well behind a red or green lense.

 

[FlyWright]

I changed out my anchor light to the $35 Davis Mega Light

and converted to LED with the $10 Marinebeam LED replacement bulb.

The combo gives me auto on/off with the photocell and less than .050 amp power consumption with great brightness.

 

[Codger2]

FlyWright wrote:
I changed out my anchor light to the $35 Davis Mega Light......

________________________________________________

Al:

As always, you're graphic presentations are the best!

 

[psneeld]

FlyWright wrote:
I changed out my anchor light to the $35 Davis Mega Light

and converted to LED with the $10 Marinebeam LED replacement bulb.

The combo gives me auto on/off with the photocell and less than .050 amp power consumption with great brightness.

*Not necessarily a good picture/test as LED lights tend to be directional.* Take the same picture at something other than straight on and it may be less bright than the incandescent with the frensel lense.

 

[psneeld]

Penny Lane wrote:
Depending on the construction of your lights, this may be a very inexpensive upgrade.

We lined the insides of our nav light fixtures with SOLAS reflective tape, available at most chandleries. *The intended use of these strips is to stick on PFD's, rafts, etc. They are highly reflective.

Our lights, and maybe yours too, were bright and shiny inside when new. *But now, they are dull. *Lining the inside with SOLAS tape makes a big improvement in light output. While you are in there, clean up your contacts.

Is there a recommendation for something to spray on the contacts to make it easier to remove the bulbs later?

cheers



-- Edited by Penny Lane on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 09:57:01 AM

*my gurss is that you made your light illegal by changing the sector characteristics if that tape is very reflective.

 

[Penny Lane]

Re change in light sector. *Why? *

The light was shiny inside when new. *The housing and lenses limited the visibility of that light to the proper sector. The SOLAS tape restores the shiny without changing any other charcteristic.

cheers,

 

[psneeld]

Penny Lane wrote:
Re change in light sector. *Why? *

The light was shiny inside when new. *The housing and lenses limited the visibility of that light to the proper sector. The SOLAS tape restores the shiny without changing any other charcteristic.

cheers,

*The lights shoud have never been shiny on the inside to begin with...that's why screens are to be painted flat black so the reflection can't be misinterpreted as seeing the light throughout a bigger sector.

The angle fron the bulb filiment to the edge of the plastic/bronze housing*deterines the sector.* If a bright reflection is coming from all over inside the housing...only a large outside screen would keep the sectors correct..otherwise the angles would be grossly different inside the original light housing.

Don't feel bad though...so many boats are set up at the factory with incorrect lighting, the USCG after years of me complaining (probably wasn't me but I'd like to think so) issued several public statements as I posted earlier...it's the operator that is responsible for ensuring proper lighting...not the boat or light manufacturer.

So many light manufacturer's and boat builder just bolt them on without a care...thus my complaint about Ranger tugs.* They paint their screens the same color of their lights..probably for marketing.* If they do that in DIRECT violation of a very simple Navrule...then what else do they do for marketing?



-- Edited by psneeld on Monday 23rd of January 2012 06:49:12 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Monday 23rd of January 2012 06:49:36 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Monday 23rd of January 2012 06:51:06 AM