Victron Cerbo GX issues (Solved!)

[slowgoesit]

As part of our boat upgrades for our new to us boat, last Spring, we installed:

• 1,200 AH of LiFePO4 batteries
• 6 ea Victron 100/30 MPPT Smart Solar controllers
• 6 ea SilFab-NX-360 solar panels (two more panels will soon be installed)
• Victron Quattro 12/5000, 120v inverter charger
• Victron BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor
• Victron Cerbo GX
• Victron Touch Screen 50

The Touch Screen 50 gets it's power by being plugged into the Cerbo GX. The BMV-712 has a data and power cable from the battery shunt, and also has a data cable to the Cerbo GX.
The Cerbo GX is wired (-) to a ground bus, and (+) positive through a circuit breaker on the main 12 vdc distribution panel.
All the battery cables are new 4/0 ancor cable, and all bus bars, both (+) and (-) are new.

Issue. I hooked up everything originally, and everything worked perfectly, including bluetooth connectivity, etc . . . for about two weeks.

• Then the Cerbo GX stopped working. The slow blow fuse is good. It has power to the fuse, and to the unit, but nothing works. Bluetooth indicator light does not illuminate. Touch Screen 50 no longer has power (supplied through the Cerbo GX), so no longer worked.
• I replaced the Cerbo GX under warranty. At that time the tech suggested that the power supply should run directly to the batteries, not get power from the main distribution panel . . . . I queried him as to why, but he had no explanation. Drawing power directly from the batteries would require a 20' cable run, so I kept the new Cerbo GS connected to the main distribution panel, and it worked for 1 month. By that time we were on our Alaska trip, so I didn't pursue a warranty claim until we returned. We still has bluetooth from the BMV-712, so we could monitor the solar panels and batteries.
• After our return, I contacted the supplier of the Cerbo GX, who sent us a new (third) Cerbo GX. I asked him if they had received any word on what was wrong with the first (failed) unit, but they don't get any feedback unfortunately.
• When I received the THIRD Cerbo GX, I connected it directly to the batteries, and it is apparently DOA. No lights, no worky whatsoever. I was so disgusted, I just gave up on it. That was almost three months ago.

I can't think of a single thing that I am doing, that could be causing the units to fail, and that wouldn't explain why the third unit was DOA either. Doing a hard reset per the instructions does nothing. My Touch Screen 50 is useless without power from the Cerbo GX. I would like the Cerbo GX in order to hook other components into it for remote alerts, but I'm kind of at my wits end here. I've got over $650 here in equipment that should work, but doesn't. Anyone have any ideas?


Edit: Everything else on the entire system works flawlessly, and as designed. We LOVE the batteries, and Solar, and the Quattro 5000 (with it's ability to pass through shore power and supplement load with inverted power from the Lithium batteries) has us rethinking our desire to upgrade to 50amp service (currently have 1 30 amp shore power input)

 

[rslifkin]

I assume you're getting the same misbehavior with nothing but power connected to the Cerbo?

 

[slowgoesit]

I assume you're getting the same misbehavior with nothing but power connected to the Cerbo?

Yep, the failed units didn't do anything, even with only power connected. The last unit, sent as a warranty replacement, I didn't even connect to anything else to test it, just (+) and (-) directly to the battery. Zip, nadda, nothing.

 

[rslifkin]

Have they sent you a replacement power cable with the units? If not, I'd suspect that as a possible issue.

 

[twistedtree]

The Cerbo GX is wired (-) to a ground bus, and (+) positive through a circuit breaker on the main 120 AC distribution panel.

Is that a typo? Do you actually mean that the Cerbo + is wired to the 12DC distribution panel?

 

[slowgoesit]

rslifkin, yes, they sent a complete new unit, with new cables/fuse. No change
Tristedtree, Yes, it was a typo. My mistake, I corrected it in the original post. It is wired to the 12vdc main distribution panel. Sorry about that.

 

[tpbrady]

Have you connected the Cerbo to an Ethernet to see if it is actually still working but WiFi and Bluetooth are disabled? I have my system connected to a router so can access it through its internal web page. If it is in fact working, the Cerbo GX uses an HDMI cable to connect to the Touch 50. I would suspect a cable or connector issue with the Touch 50.

Tom

 

[tpbrady]

If my understanding is correct, the Touch 50 is a small touch screen display with no internal smarts. It accesses the internal web page of the GX.

Tom

 

[DDW]

The Cerbo is a fairly reliable design. Given that 3 of them have failed, it does point to something on your boat. If you have been using the same power harness, that would be an obvious place to check. The fuse holder supplied with them isn't the highest possible quality. The exact power in shouldn't be critical, it has an internal switching supply that will accept a wide range of input. I'd check the sockets on the input harness connector with a voltmeter and wiggle all the connections in the harness including the fuse holder. Or change it out for another.

 

[ksanders]

Question???

Is the Cerbo dead, meaning no lights, or dead meaning the screen does not work?

Can you connect to the cerbo via bluetooth? or via VRM?

 

[twistedtree]

Have you connected the Cerbo to an Ethernet to see if it is actually still working but WiFi and Bluetooth are disabled? I have my system connected to a router so can access it through its internal web page. If it is in fact working, the Cerbo GX uses an HDMI cable to connect to the Touch 50. I would suspect a cable or connector issue with the Touch 50.

Tom

Sorry, not relevant to fixing the issue at hand, but does that mean you could use any touch screen with HDMI in place of the Touch 50?

 

[danderer]

Sorry, not relevant to fixing the issue at hand, but does that mean you could use any touch screen with HDMI in place of the Touch 50?

I'm fairly sure I've seen references to this, using HDMI for the output and USB for the touch input. (I know you can use a mouse via USB for input.)

 

[slowgoesit]

Have you connected the Cerbo to an Ethernet to see if it is actually still working but WiFi and Bluetooth are disabled? I have my system connected to a router so can access it through its internal web page. If it is in fact working, the Cerbo GX uses an HDMI cable to connect to the Touch 50. I would suspect a cable or connector issue with the Touch 50.

Tom

I have not tried connecting by anything except wifi/bluetooth. I also have not replaced the cable from the cerbo GX to the BMV-712. According to the instructions that come with the Cerbo GX, the Wifi Access Point LED and the Bluetooth LED's should light up as soon as they receive power. I get nothing. I have 13.1 vdc at the breaker, downstream end of the fuse, and at the male plug connection to the Cerbo GX, but no Wifi or Bluetooth LED illumination, nor any power output on the USB1 output that the Touchscreen 50 plugs into.

 

[slowgoesit]

If my understanding is correct, the Touch 50 is a small touch screen display with no internal smarts. It accesses the internal web page of the GX.

Tom

Actually, I believe it displays the output of the BMV-712, but in more depth than the BMV-712, or at least that was my experience when it all was working.

 

[slowgoesit]

The Cerbo is a fairly reliable design. Given that 3 of them have failed, it does point to something on your boat. If you have been using the same power harness, that would be an obvious place to check. The fuse holder supplied with them isn't the highest possible quality. The exact power in shouldn't be critical, it has an internal switching supply that will accept a wide range of input. I'd check the sockets on the input harness connector with a voltmeter and wiggle all the connections in the harness including the fuse holder. Or change it out for another.

I totally agree, but for the life of me, I can't see what I could be doing wrong, nor does that explain why the latest (third) Cerbo GX was dead on arrival (DOA), using the NEW power cord, the NEW fuse, the NEW Cerbo GX, connected directly to a 12vdc battery.


The acceptable power input of the Cerbo GX, per the manual is 8 to 70 vdc.

 

[slowgoesit]

Question???

Is the Cerbo dead, meaning no lights, or dead meaning the screen does not work?

Can you connect to the cerbo via bluetooth? or via VRM?

The Cerbo GX (both the 2nd one, and the last, brand new one) appear to be totally dead. No lights, of any color (Wifi Access Point should be green when active, orange when disabled) That was the way it was before, when it was working. The Bluetooth LED is either on, blinking, or off depending on whether it is connected, not connected, or disabled.

I cannot get into the Cerbo GX using bluetooth because the bluetooth does not show up. It did before, using the phone app, I could see it, and open it up to view/set parameters, but I can no longer see either the 2nd one, nor the third one.

Note: On further testing, the second Cerbo GX, which I still have, as they didn't want it back when they sent me the 3rd one, blows the 3amp slow blow fuse when it is connected to a 12vdc power supply. The 3rd one doesn't blow the fuse, but doesn't do anything either. I am now out of 3 amp slow blow fuses, having blown three testing, so I can't do anything further in that respect till I get more fuses.

 

[C lectric]

Have you contacted Victron about this problem? I don't mean the dealer but VIctron or at least their distributor. If need be go after Victron themselves. THey should be able to suggest some scenarios that would fit your symptoms and how to check.

THere are some knowledgeable people here but Victron should have some experts of their equipment.

Have you tried connecting a DMM with a Min/Max function. They can be left, many of them, for something like up to 24 - 36 hours, maybe more now, as a monitor for any spikes in voltage. I've done that when I was still working and trying to figure out why a machine was goofing up. Spikes can do damage to electronics.
They can be very fast so a normal voltage meter will not even respond usually.

It's not quite as good as an actual oscilloscope but is a whole lot better than total guesswork.

Several of them took my meter set on a 1 msec capture range. THe 100msec range ignore them as the spikes were to short.

Spikes can be caused by electric devices when they shutdown. Starter motors, windlass motors, and any other motor that draws heavy current can be a cause. THere is a reverse voltage induced when the power is cut off abruptly to these motors and it can be many times the voltage powering the motor.

A battery bank should absorb the spikes but not always. I flashed my own GPS and a computer but was lucky , they fired up. I now do not turn them on untill the engine is operating.

I am going to toss in one more but a question. How are your batteries setup, ie. a house set and an engine start set? Of are the batteries one big set starting both the engine AND operating the house? If set up as two sets then where is the Cerbo connected? Is it wired to the engine start set or the house set. If wired to the engine start set then a spike is very likely. Even if wired to the house set if the anchor windlass is wired to the house set it could still spike the Cerbo.

Take a good look at how you have connected these.

Just some suggestions and to ask Victron about and how to deal with it.
Maybe a capacitor or inductor on the power supply to the Cerbo.

But contact and ask.



Looks like Victron is on it already. I will leave the above though.

 

[twistedtree]

Looks like you are not alone


Cerbo GX failure X2 - Victron Community

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...20-%20v5.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1tE1JUJ5sO_LKX5LTbckAk


The above referenced 48V systems, but it sure sounds the same as what you have encountered.

 

[tpbrady]

This is definitely a confusing problem, but 3 Cerbo’s showing the same thing leads you to look for something external. That’s why it seems to be either power or the display. While the power to the connector seems good, we all assume that measuring 12vdc on a connector all is good. It is possible that there is an AC component being generated by the battery charger that exceeds the Cerbo’s tolerance for AC ripple. Hence the comment about connecting directly to the battery. Turning off shore power with any inverter off, might give some indication if that is the problem.

Tom

 

[slowgoesit]

Have you contacted Victron about this problem? I don't mean the dealer but VIctron or at least their distributor. If need be go after Victron themselves. THey should be able to suggest some scenarios that would fit your symptoms and how to check.


I have contacted Victron directly, but they stated that they do not support the end user, and I need to go through the vendor who I purchased from. One good reason to not buy Victron.

THere are some knowledgeable people here but Victron should have some experts of their equipment.


I totally agree, but they refused to speak with, or help me, stating that I had to go through the vendor, who although helpful didn't have any idea what the problem was, or where to go from here.



Have you tried connecting a DMM with a Min/Max function. They can be left, many of them, for something like up to 24 - 36 hours, maybe more now, as a monitor for any spikes in voltage. I've done that when I was still working and trying to figure out why a machine was goofing up. Spikes can do damage to electronics.
They can be very fast so a normal voltage meter will not even respond usually.

It's not quite as good as an actual oscilloscope but is a whole lot better than total guesswork.

Several of them took my meter set on a 1 msec capture range. THe 100msec range ignore them as the spikes were to short.

Spikes can be caused by electric devices when they shutdown. Starter motors, windlass motors, and any other motor that draws heavy current can be a cause. THere is a reverse voltage induced when the power is cut off abruptly to these motors and it can be many times the voltage powering the motor.

A battery bank should absorb the spikes but not always. I flashed my own GPS and a computer but was lucky , they fired up. I now do not turn them on untill the engine is operating.

I am going to toss in one more but a question. How are your batteries setup, ie. a house set and an engine start set? Of are the batteries one big set starting both the engine AND operating the house? If set up as two sets then where is the Cerbo connected? Is it wired to the engine start set or the house set. If wired to the engine start set then a spike is very likely. Even if wired to the house set if the anchor windlass is wired to the house set it could still spike the Cerbo.


Our batteries are set up with a LiFePO4 1200 ah battery house bank charged with a Victron Quattro 12/5000. 24v start battery is FLA and totally separate. I don't believe that I have a voltage spike issue going on, but have not tested per your recommendations above.



Take a good look at how you have connected these.

Just some suggestions and to ask Victron about and how to deal with it.
Maybe a capacitor or inductor on the power supply to the Cerbo.

But contact and ask.

Looks like Victron is on it already. I will leave the above though.

I'll check out the video posted, and see if there is anything there that will help.

 

[slowgoesit]

This is definitely a confusing problem, but 3 Cerbo’s showing the same thing leads you to look for something external. That’s why it seems to be either power or the display. While the power to the connector seems good, we all assume that measuring 12vdc on a connector all is good. It is possible that there is an AC component being generated by the battery charger that exceeds the Cerbo’s tolerance for AC ripple. Hence the comment about connecting directly to the battery. Turning off shore power with any inverter off, might give some indication if that is the problem.

Tom

I would think that by going straight to the 12v battery would have isolated the above. The 3rd Cerbo GX wouldn't function, hooked directly up to the battery, and with absolutely NOTHING hooked up to it except for the power cord, so I can see where even a faulty touch screen that has never been hooked up to it could be the problem, but I may be missing something.

 

[tpbrady]

Since the output of the charger goes to the battery bank also, I wouldn’t be sure any AC ripple is bypassed. I have never tried it but theoretically you can set a multimeter to measure AC and see any AC present.

Tom

 

[twistedtree]

I suspect the most likely explanation is that the acknowledged manufacturing defect in a batch of Cerbo devices extends beyond just 48V operation, and that you are experiencing the same thing.


The unfortunate thing here is Victron's abandonment of any support responsibility. This notion of directing all support to their dealers is a complete fail. With few exceptions, people selling products don't know anything about the product beyond what's printed on the box. I hope they figure this out and fix it before it starts costing them business.

 

[rslifkin]

I suspect the most likely explanation is that the acknowledged manufacturing defect in a batch of Cerbo devices extends beyond just 48V operation, and that you are experiencing the same thing.


The unfortunate thing here is Victron's abandonment of any support responsibility. This notion of directing all support to their dealers is a complete fail. With few exceptions, people selling products don't know anything about the product beyond what's printed on the box. I hope they figure this out and fix it before it starts costing them business.

The dealer should be able to escalate up to Victron for support. They just don't want to directly support end users (although I've seen mentions on their forum that they will do it if the dealer is no longer around or won't help).

 

[cafesport]

If it’s not a cerbo defect it might be an underway problem due to managing different loads and charging then you experience when plugged into shore.

Did you set up a vrm account? If so download all the data you can. if not much of the solar and battery charge data is archived and reviewable via the phone app. You can save the screenshots. You might need to save this and send it to victron in order to escalate this.

Other thoughts, is there an acr in the charging system? Can you see or even tweak your bms settings? Something seems to be frying this unit, and only this unit, and not frying its fuse.

 

[DDW]

Sorry, not relevant to fixing the issue at hand, but does that mean you could use any touch screen with HDMI in place of the Touch 50?

I think that is correct, though I haven't tried it. Adapting the HDMI output to something different in aspect or pixel count might require some ingenuity. But since the whole software set is open sourced, you could probably do it with some effort. The touch 50 is just an HDMI monitor with USB touch input, you can use it on other devices such as a Raspberry Pi.

The unfortunate thing here is Victron's abandonment of any support responsibility. This notion of directing all support to their dealers is a complete fail. With few exceptions, people selling products don't know anything about the product beyond what's printed on the box. I hope they figure this out and fix it before it starts costing them business.

I do wish Victron would pick up some user support, but this is the Modern Way.

If the OP is near the vendor, and the vendor has an actual physical presence, I'd walk in there and ask for a new one, and ask to see it powered up at the counter with a battery before I left the store. If I was the vendor, before I replaced a 3rd one, I'd insist on the same thing. A batch of bad ones isn't totally implausible, but that would prove it one way or the other.

 

[boathealer]

One remote possibility, but fits entirely with what you are seeing, is that the dealer is sending you "replacement" devices from suspect/untested/defective inventory, e.g., other peoples' returns.......

 

[jefndeb]

I can say that sometimes when I turn on the DC Galley lights CB, on the Main DC panel, it sometimes causes my Cerbo to shut off and reboot. It usually recovers in a minute or two. My Cerbo is wired to the Main DC bus as well.

 

[rslifkin]

I can say that sometimes when I turn on the DC Galley lights CB, on the Main DC panel, it sometimes causes my Cerbo to shut off and reboot. It usually recovers in a minute or two. My Cerbo is wired to the Main DC bus as well.

I've had the same when I first turn the fridge breakers on at spring launch. And I had it with the engine room lights until I swapped out the cheap LED bulbs installed down there with better ones. Seems to be sensitive to certain interference getting kicked back onto the DC bus. None of my other stuff causes it though (windlass is fine, for example).

 

[Choices]

I think the internal power supplies are suspect.

A switched power supply, battery chargers, some frig controllers, and other devices like phone chargers can put spikes and harmonics on a DC circuit.

A battery absorbs those, and by design can not pass them.

Does not explain all of it but some. I have seen this problem before.

Blowing a correctly sized fuse slowly means something is hot. Again power supply.

Now getting them to admit this....