Vetus bow thruster not turning on/activating

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NiMi

Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
17
Location
United States
Vessel Name
Mamba
Vessel Make
Mainship Mark iii
Hello all, about a year ago my Vetus BT started working intermittently - usually fine, sometimes not at all - nothing in between. Recently, not at all. No clicking solenoids - nothing. I was getting 12v at motor and at the end of remote wire harness so bought new control panel as mine was 20 years old and wasn't lighting up. New control panel doesn't light up either (pressing power twice.) Plugged in new panel directly into Molex outlet at the motor (bypassing remote wire) and still nothing - although I do get a faint beep about every 5 seconds. Still showing 12v at the plug on side of motor. I have tried a jumper wire within the Molex plug to activate the solenoids individually (positive to the blue, then positive to the white) but nothing. Any ideas? Thanks.
Nick
 
We have a Sidepower thruster and they have a very good troubleshooting guide, have you asked Vetus if they have one?
 
I did and they emailed one. I'm sure it's good but doesn't address the issue of no light on at the control panel or the faint beep every 5 seconds. And they have not answered that specific question. Have gone through what I can considering I'm not able to get the red issue light to light up in the first place. Looking at bypassing the solenoid (which I imagine will also take the CP out of the equation) to see if that makes a difference.
 
What year and model vetus? Where is the reverse solenoid? That is where control the control power source begins with a fuse on mine.
 
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I believe 2000 BOW50 model. Not sure about the reverse solenoid. There is the 5amp fuse near bottom right front of solenoid box but that is good and I am getting 12v through the remote cable.
 
I'm struggling to remember, but I think there are three forms of circuit protection involved with that control panel.

My first thought is to make sure all are happy. My totally wild guess is that the problem is the over temp protection down on the motor, which interrupts the ground, not the power.

I think that, in a typical install,, there is usually a fuse or circuit breaker between the battery and a main on-off switch. So, i'd check for power into that switch, and while there, power out when it is on. That would check the main circuit protection and the main switch.

I think that switch leads down to the motor's solenoid pack, which is down on the motor. So, I'd check for power there next. If there is a problem, that wire and its connections are my next suspect.

From there, I think it goes to the controller. So, I'd check there. Here is the fun part. If there isn't power going into the controller, my next suspect is the controller fuse. But, that is no where near the controller. To protect that wire and the solenoid, they put it all the way down by the solenoids, not up by the controller.

If the controller is getting power but not working, which seems to be what you described, my next guess, which is actually my best 1st guess given the reported gradual failure and +12v at the controller, is the over-temp protection, which is down on the motor and interrupts the ground, including, I think, to the controller's internal logic.

If not the over-temp cut off, I'd check the ground wiring back from the panel to the temp cutoff and the temp cut off to ground.

If the controller logic isn't getting a ground via this path, the press-and-hold to activate might not work. If that doesn't work, no controller and no controller light, even though there is +12v coming in and the light has an independent ground path.

I think the light is directly grounded, so it will stay on once turned on, even if an over-temp condition occurs. But, I think an initial over temp condition, or problem with that ground path, might prevent the controller from working and turning it on initially.

My last guess is that, on the back of the motor, I remember a unit that includes both the motor solenoids. I think they are along the same ground path as the controller and the over-temp shutoff. A problem there could conceivably interrupt the ground, but, given how they work and how they are mounted, it i
Is much, much harder for me to imagine than a problem.with the over temp device.

I guess where all of this is going isnthat if you have +12v into the controller, and have replaced the controller but still can't even get a light, I'd check the ground path, but not the one for the light. And, my primary suspects would be the over-temp cut-off by the motor and the connectors.

As for the faint sound, maybe the ground isn't totally open.

But, these are just total wild guesses and estimations from memory.

Happy hunting!
 
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Sheesh gkesden, that was awesome. I will search for the thermal cutoff, do some testing, and get back to you - very much appreciated!
Nick
 
Well, doing a little research here it appears to be no thermal/temp cutoff on the 2000 model. Next up is checking ground connections around the solenoids when I get back down there tomorrow.
 
Screen Shot 2021-05-17 at 1.04.07 PM.jpg
 
Whmm. I'm still hunting for a little more details can you maybe post a link to the manual you found that in.

That figure doesn't show a break our of the solenoids or relays and I'd be a little surprised if there weren't some time of ocer-use protection, if not just for the warranty period!

Thanks!
 
Mine is newer and have electronic controls. I had a control module get wet and go bad. It gave me a beep of some sort which meant no communication. That diagram doesn't show any electronics. Check to see if you have a small black box with electronics in it between the switch panel and the motor contactors
 
That is a picture that the Vetus rep I've talked to to sent me along with the troubleshooting pdf which I am attaching.

4fun1, I have not seen a black electronics box around the motor other than the solenoids box.
 

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Gkesden, so last straw before I took the engine off and had it bench tested, I went and bought a standard 12v car battery and hooked it up to the thruster and viola...it fired right up. The thruster still says it's getting 13.3v from the house bank but no go. Hook a new 12v car battery and works like normal. Obviously, there is an issue with the house bank itself or with the connections. Everything else on the boat seems to be just fine and gauges are showing both batteries right around 12v. I've tried house batteries selected to #1, #2, and both - still no go at the thruster. Though, I am getting clicking at the solenoids, now. Any ideas why that would be? Thanks
Nick
 
Hey Nick,

Okay. That is really good information.

Let me ask you this...exactly...how, when, and where are you measuring the 13.3v?

Basically, there are four possibilities.....bad battery, bad negative conductor or connector; bad possitive conductor or connector; or bad switch, over current protection device, or other device along the way, or connector thereto.

While waiting for more detail, I can offer another easy test. Shut off all chargers, including any solar. If, and only if, you have an existing switch, isolate to only the normal battery (bank) for the thruster. Measure the voltage of the battery where it is connected to the thruster across the positive and negative connections /immediately/ before and after /briefly/ attempting to exercise the thruster. See if, perhaps, it starts out at ~12-14v and then drops to something much lower, e.g. 6-9v with the attempted use. You want to do the test during or very promptly after use especially because, if there is a parallel battery bank with one bad battery, it can possibly (though not super likely) surface charge the bad one enough to fool you.

One possibility is that the battery is bad, but this is being covered up by the charger(s). In other words, although it is bad, it is getting a very ephemeral "surface charge" to a normal-looking voltage, but use quickly reveals the real level of charge.

I was known a boat last week where this happened with a wjndlass. The owner had been working on things and, when done the windlass made a clicking sound but would not budge. He measured ~13.8v immediately before and after (but not exactly during) use. I showed up, saw the same thing, killed the charger and solar controller...and bad battery was revealed: 13.8v dropped to 6.3v after <3s of use. New battery fixed it.

Good progress! Hang in for the rest of the ride!

Cheers!
-Greg
 
The CONTROL circuits could still be working which is why you hear clicking.
The fact the extra battery ran the motor means the motor is OK.

It sounds like the problem is in the POWER circuit. Bad connection, loose connection, blown fuse or tripped Circuit breaker, so even though the controls work the actual drive motor, which needs high power , cannot get that power.

you need to go through all the connections and clean and tighten them.
 
Rudder post leak

Hey Nick,

To C Electric's question (and my earlier one) it would be great if you can provide more details of your testing procedures. As a for example, he and I may have made different assumptions and/or left your email with different questions about whether you powered the motor directly with your new battery, or if you powered it by connecting to the usual terminals.
 
Thanks guys. So, my testing was just below the main black battery switch. Then below the red Blue Sea switch that is designated for the thruster. Finally tested at the thruster, itself. I will say that when I went to turn the Blue Sea switch at the very beginning of my trouble shooting it wouldn't turn. I did what I probably shouldn't have done and forced it. I think I broke as it turns freely now but won't turn off the power supply. But this was after the thruster stopped working. Anyway, I was getting inconsistent readings below the Blue Sea for a bit but it is and has been consistent 13.3 for a while now. With the new car battery, I used jumper cables to connect it directly to the thruster. I have attached a picture of the switches. I will try and get down there today and do some testing. I will also try and borrow a load tester.
 

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Take the lead off one terminal on the battery switch and temporarily put it on the terminal with the other lead. Now you have isolated the battery switch. See if the thruster works, if it does replace the battery switch. If it doesn’t then there is another problem besides the now broken switch. Do NOT leave both leads on one terminal after troubleshooting since you will not be able to cut off power in case of an emergency.
 
Another thing to try is to use jumper cables to jumper from the existing battery to the same test points on the thruster as worked with the new battery.

I guess what I am having trouble understanding is if, during your testing, you bypassed the solenoids on the back of the motor or just bypassed the control, or bypassed neither.
 
I am just hooking up the jumper cables to the main positive and negative connectors where the main battery bank power goes into. So, I don't believe I am bypassing anything. I keep the control panel hooked up to the molex plug directly on side of the solenoid box - which is where I do my testing of the control panel/thruster from.
 
Gkesden, so last straw before I took the engine off and had it bench tested, I went and bought a standard 12v car battery and hooked it up to the thruster and viola...it fired right up. The thruster still says it's getting 13.3v from the house bank but no go. Hook a new 12v car battery and works like normal. Obviously, there is an issue with the house bank itself or with the connections. Everything else on the boat seems to be just fine and gauges are showing both batteries right around 12v. I've tried house batteries selected to #1, #2, and both - still no go at the thruster. Though, I am getting clicking at the solenoids, now. Any ideas why that would be? Thanks
Nick

With long runs to your thruster, I suspect the amperage the thruster wants just isn't getting there, especially if you meant 12v measured at the batteries, as in your post quoted and in bold.

In my experience, any clicking solenoids that are meant to actually move when activated, not just click, means it is time for a new battery. Your experience with a new separate battery seems to signal this.
 
I am just hooking up the jumper cables to the main positive and negative connectors where the main battery bank power goes into. So, I don't believe I am bypassing anything. I keep the control panel hooked up to the molex plug directly on side of the solenoid box - which is where I do my testing of the control panel/thruster from.

Cool. Then just test it as I described and see if the voltage drops off. I'm betting the battery is bad.if nit that, you are down to a bad wire, connector, connection or intermediate device (switxh, circuitnorotection, etc)
 
Thanks guys. So, my testing was just below the main black battery switch. Then below the red Blue Sea switch that is designated for the thruster. Finally tested at the thruster, itself. I will say that when I went to turn the Blue Sea switch at the very beginning of my trouble shooting it wouldn't turn. I did what I probably shouldn't have done and forced it. I think I broke as it turns freely now but won't turn off the power supply. But this was after the thruster stopped working. Anyway, I was getting inconsistent readings below the Blue Sea for a bit but it is and has been consistent 13.3 for a while now. With the new car battery, I used jumper cables to connect it directly to the thruster. I have attached a picture of the switches. I will try and get down there today and do some testing. I will also try and borrow a load tester.


Did you break the switch? Maybe it was haywire before you ""broke"" it. Maybe you just finished it off.

Years ago I helped a fellow who lost half his electrical system. Your RED on/off switch, looks very similar to the one I found, itself was the problem. Bypassed it and all lit up. I didn't have one to replace it and we were not close to any marinas or such to get one so he made do untill he could get to town.
Double check that switch.
 
NiMi, thanks for posting the trouble shooting guide. I am having a similar issue with a Vetus thruster.

Did you check the fuse link just below the shut off switch?

Bruce
 
Hey guys, ok, so I just ran jumper cables from the main house battery bank (same one the thruster is wired to) to the thruster and it fired right up - no issues. Put a load tester on both batteries and they showed to both be good. Also, Greg, I tried to look for the voltage drop-off. Shut down the one charger I have on the system, put the multimeter on the thruster and tried to fire it up. battery 1 showed no change in voltage when clicking left thruster button. There was a little drop-off when clicking the right thruster button - about down to 9-10v. Actually, pretty much the same happened when I switched to the second battery - no change left side, drop to 8-10v right side.

To Comodave's test, I wasn't comfortable popping off the large black cap to the main battery switch and pulling one of the positive cables off and attaching it down below the dedicated thruster power switch (if that was what you were describing?). If it's not a big deal I will do it. As I was sitting there staring at it, I wondered if I could take the jumper cable and attach one end to a batteries posts and another just below the dedicated thruster power switch (and find a ground?) Would that serve the same purpose? 4 gauge jumper cables FYI.

I would like to just replace the dedicated thruster power switch (which now seems to be broken, anyway) but when I went to do it way back when, it appears to be bolted to the shank from the back (which I could not access) and so I figured I would need to remove the whole shank from the upper main power switch (previous picture) to access the back of the dedicated thruster switch - so I didn't.

Nick
 
No, I was suggesting to move both cables on the battery switch to one terminal to put the battery switch out of the circuit. That would eliminate the switch as a problem. Put both cables on on terminal for testing purposes only then undo it and put it back to normal. If the switch is bad the thruster should work with both cables on one terminal on the back of the switch.
 
Okay. You are making great progress. Those voltages don't sound bad for under load.

So, one next thing you can do is try to isolate the fault to the plus/red path and minus/black (or yellow) path. To do this, leave the jumper cable on the plus/red side to bypass the red wiring, and disconnect the cable from the minus/black (or yellow) side. See if it works. If it does, the red/plus side is suspect. If it doesn't, reverse it. Take the jumper cable off of the plus/red side and connect it up on the minus/black (or yellow) side. If it starts up, you've isolated the problem to the minus/black (or yellow) path.

Assuming that there is only one problem, or all problems are on the same side, that'll cut your search space in half. If you've got problems on both sides, well, you'll learn that, too.

Let's assume that you isolate the problem to one side or the other, let's say the plus/red side. You can leave the jumper cable on the motor, and move the other end forward one connection or device at a time. If you move the connector from one side of a connection or device to another and it stops working -- you found the bad connection.

For example, let's pretend you've got one end of the red wire of the jumper cable on the plus terminal of the motor (and the other wire disconnected at both ends) and it works when you connect the other end of the red wire to the battery, and it works when you connect the other end of the red wire to the battery-side of the battery switch, but it doesn't work when you connect it to the motor-side of the battery switch, you'll have isolated the battery switch to be the problem.

If it works when it is on a ring terminal on one end of a wire, but not when it is on a ring terminal at another end of the same wire, there is likely a bad connection or device between those ends of the wire, e.g. a bad butt connection, fuse, etc.

Maybe this helps?
 
How old are you batteries?

From the internet:
Voltage and amperage are two measures of electrical current or flow of electrons. Voltage is a measure of the pressure that allows electrons to flow, while amperage is a measure of the volume of electrons.
----------------

In my case, my starting battery looked fine and voltage was 13.? vts.
When starting the main engine, everything continued to look fine, voltage was 13.?.
Now, the bow thruster was on the 4D starting battery.
Bump the bow thruster, voltage dropped down to about 10.8vts, the engine shut down. (electronic control engine)
My point is, your battery health is such that it may not be able to provide enough amperage (umphs) to get to the bow thruster.
I assume, checked all connections, removing them, inspecting for corrosion, from the battery to the bow thruster.
You hit the bow thruster switch and you hear a click.
That suggests, to me, the battery cannot provide enough "umph" to the bow
thruster.
Note: "umph" is a non-technical term that just seems to fit here.

Load test the batteries. Shut down the charger overnight and check the voltage of each batteries the next morning. Separate each of the batteries electrically overnight. Measure the voltage individually. I think you will find the individual offending battery. Common wisdom currently suggests all the batteries be change at the same time. By 'all', ie, all the batteries in the house bank or all the starting batteries, etc.
Lemme think, ah my example, bad 4D starting battery I only had to replace the one starting battery.

I could have paralleled all the batteries, aint hind sight wonderful?
I opted to change all the 4D (house and starting) batteries . A visual inspecting .... swollen cases.
One weak battery can drag down the health of the other batteries. I also moved the bow thruster to the house batteries 3X4D. Rational, the 3X4D contain more umphs than the one 4D starting battery. Plus I wanted to ensure the main engine does not shut down at a critical time.

All this makes sense to me and I hope it makes sense to you. If not, please feel free to correct my flawed thinking
 
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Comodave, I apologize, I'm still confused trying to visualize what you're referring to. But I would like to try it. My main battery switch - the large black one? It has.. 4 or 5 red lines going to it, I believe. You were referring to "move both cables on the battery switch to one terminal..". Can you be more specific? Or, more dumbed down perhaps..?

Old Dan, I will give yours a try, as well. I'll shut it all down today and give it a try tomorrow. The 2 batteries are in parallel so I will separate them, as well.

Greg,

"For example, let's pretend you've got one end of the red wire of the jumper cable on the plus terminal of the motor (and the other wire disconnected at both ends) and it works when you connect the other end of the red wire to the battery, and it works when you connect the other end of the red wire to the battery-side of the battery switch, but it doesn't work when you connect it to the motor-side of the battery switch, you'll have isolated the battery switch to be the problem."

Are you referring to attaching the other end of the (red) jumper cable on opposing sides of the battery switch (battery side, then thruster side)? Considering other end is connected to the positive terminal of the thruster motor. Trying to isolate the individual switches?

Nick
 
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