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Old 11-10-2021, 11:14 AM   #1
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USB Charging - The latest

I'm looking into adding some panel mounted USB chargers in various places in the boat. I'm wanting to add something that will last the longest before I have to update to something new to support newer devices.

The latest specs for USB charging is driven by a spec called USB-PD which stands for 'Power Delivery'. Traditionally USB has maxed at 15W of power, 3 amps at 5 volts. The latest spec ramps that up to 240W, enough to power many laptops and even desktop computers and monitors directly. Manufacturers are already releasing devices that are powered and get their data all from one USB cable. Think of a monitor that you just plug into your laptop with no other cables.

Standard 2.4 amp USB-A (The large square plug) are a dime a dozen, as they have been around the longest. These are the oldest and least powerful available at 15W. I don't want to install these, they are barely able to charge a modern phone.

The latest connector is the USB-C connector which can be inserted in either direction, and this is the connector that is targeted for the higher power charging profiles delivered with a USB-PD compliant port.

Higher power charging through USB is accomplished through a couple of methods, first the current rating of the USB-C connector was designed at 5 amps. This was an immediate boost to 25W of charging at 5V. The next step was to increase voltage, USB-PD (2.0) ports can supply up to 20 volts at 5 Amps, achieving 100W of charge power. The current implementation of power deliver stops (version 2.0) at 100W, but the new spec (2.1) released this year increases voltages to attain up to 240W by using 48 volts.

Charge ports that support the Power Delivery specification require electronics in them to negotiate the voltage that will be delivered and the two devices have to have an electronic conversation to agree to what they are going to use. Charge ports that support power delivery will also require more than the 12V DC common in boat electrical systems to achieve the higher charging power.

So this brings me to the search for a solution that will allow my newer devices to charge using the latest available. The challenges are that 99% of the panel mount charge ports out there are just the basic old 2.4A 5V port. Very few are available to do more at this time. The challenge is of course the voltage requirements, it's easy (and cheap) to build a classis USB port, much more is involved in a proper power delivery implementation.

I'll post options to this thread as well as a review of any port(s) that I end up buying and using.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:32 AM   #2
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The first option is a relatively inexpensive 'no name' device. (I have no affiliation)


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08SQCBC2C

This is available on amazon for about $25. This device claims to support up to 60W charging, 20 volts at 5 Amps. It requires a 24V DC input to do so.

24V can be had with a 12-24 DC-DC boost converter, these can be had for around $20 from a variety of sources.

I doubt the reliability of either of these devices considering their sources. A better DC-DC converter could be used which would help, but it's still only 60 watts, going to the trouble, I'd much rather have something that gets to the full 100W of the current spec.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:35 AM   #3
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I had some similar thoughts up until I installed an inverter. After that, I realized the inverter is running 24/7 anyway, so the loss is minimal for just using standard AC adapters as needed.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:40 AM   #4
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Another contender is the Leviton T5635-W USB Dual Type-C in wall charge outlet.



This device obviously replaces an existing AC outlet and provides two power delivery compatible ports, with 30W of charging max, either 30W to one port or 15W to each for a total of 30W.

This is pretty low and it would require an inverter or shore power to operate. This is not as a big of a downside as you might think, all options for power deliver will require the voltage to be 'boosted' from the DC system, with the inherent losses in doing that, so even the DC powered solutions are using an inverter under the hood to boost that DC voltage.

These go for about $50 and would be very simple to install. The low power rating is a bummer though, only 30W total. I do like that it's got a name behind it and it's likely to be reliable.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:44 AM   #5
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The 30W limit is fine for phones and tablets generally (I can't think of any that will accept more than that). But it would be limiting if you wanted to use those ports to charge a modern USB-PD powered laptop.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:51 AM   #6
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Another DC Powered solution is the PowerWerx USB Type-C + PD panel mount port.



This device retails for about $30. It delivers up to 18W, and is limited to 12V charging. This is too low for me to bother with, standard USB ports can attain this without claiming power delivery.

The blue voltage indicator is also a big turn off, I HATE having mandatory night lights on my devices, if I want a volt meter I'd put a voltmeter. I don't need it built into a charging port. I'll pass on this one, but it might be ideal for someone else in a different situation if you only want basic 18W charging and want to see your battery voltage at the same time.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
The 30W limit is fine for phones and tablets generally (I can't think of any that will accept more than that). But it would be limiting if you wanted to use those ports to charge a modern USB-PD powered laptop.
Yes I think this could be a very good option for many uses and many boaters. Another issue is that some older boats may have very small AC outlet boxes and you may struggle to fit these without replacing the boxes which makes them harder to install than you'd like.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:56 AM   #8
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I had some similar thoughts up until I installed an inverter. After that, I realized the inverter is running 24/7 anyway, so the loss is minimal for just using standard AC adapters as needed.
That is a fair point. All USB charging solutions above 18W are going to require more than 12V DC, so you'll have to come up with that somehow. A DC voltage booster is actually an inverter internally so it might be more efficient to just use AC wall warts plugged into an inverter powered outlet.
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Old 11-10-2021, 12:20 PM   #9
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Now we move up to some higher end gear.

The Coolgear 75W Dual Port USB Charge 1 Type-C PD


I think they need to work on a better name for this thing!

They have an optional panel mount kit:


This device provides up to 60W of charging power to it's USB-C port, and has a built in voltage converter so it can handle a 12V input, and still deliver 20V output at 3 amps to power your USB-PD laptop or other device. It's an all in one solution. Retail is about $65. They are out of stock at this time.

This looks like a good solution and it's one I'm very tempted to try out.
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Old 11-10-2021, 12:23 PM   #10
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I have not read every single word from every posting. But what I did not see is these two things. A high rate of charge is not good for some batteries. Giving them an early death. Also, the battery/phone may only pull 1 or 2 amps even if the USB is rated higher.
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Old 11-10-2021, 12:36 PM   #11
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I have not read every single word from every posting. But what I did not see is these two things. A high rate of charge is not good for some batteries. Giving them an early death. Also, the battery/phone may only pull 1 or 2 amps even if the USB is rated higher.
Well the purpose of the entire thread is to look at options for the highest rates of charge available over USB, so it might not be for you in that case.

USB-C and power delivery is intended for devices larger than phones, and the system always requires the device to ask for the power level it needs, you won't get huge charge currents into a phone, it doesn't need it and won't ask for it.
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Old 11-10-2021, 02:01 PM   #12
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I think a small wooden box the size of a paperback that you could put a fuse block in and then mount that "Coolgear" box on top of it. In 5 years when it's obsolete get a new to plug to mount on your wooden box. You could think yourself into circles trying to prepare for what may or may not happen in the future. Instead just build a system that works now and is easy to upgrade when the future arrives.
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Old 11-10-2021, 02:16 PM   #13
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I think a small wooden box the size of a paperback that you could put a fuse block in and then mount that "Coolgear" box on top of it. In 5 years when it's obsolete get a new to plug to mount on your wooden box. You could think yourself into circles trying to prepare for what may or may not happen in the future. Instead just build a system that works now and is easy to upgrade when the future arrives.
That's kind of the purpose of looking at the options and understanding the underlying tech.

There are two common 'standards'. A 1-1/8" hole for panel mount adapters, and the common U.S. household outlet. Fitting something into one of those standards is the goal.

I'm not concerned about the exercise of finding the options that are available and choosing what works best at this time, seems more efficient than buying blindly and not ending up with what I want. Perhaps there is no interest in this subject here.
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Old 11-10-2021, 04:56 PM   #14
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I have a number of the "cigarette lighter" size USB outlets around the boat. It seems you can never have too many.

The most recent ones I got support QC 3.0 but not PD. I don't have any PD devices and it's easy enough to swap out these little outlets when I need to. They work great for all my fairly new devices, and I'll be buying more to replace my old 2.1A and 2.4A outlets.

I stick with these 12V devices because my inverter (and I think most) will sense when there's no load and use very little power. But a USB transformer will keep it active and wasting electricity. Plus the 120V outlets with built-in USB ports will be more expensive to upgrade when (not if) there's a new standard.
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Old 11-10-2021, 05:07 PM   #15
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I have a number of the "cigarette lighter" size USB outlets around the boat. It seems you can never have too many.

The most recent ones I got support QC 3.0 but not PD. I don't have any PD devices and it's easy enough to swap out these little outlets when I need to. They work great for all my fairly new devices, and I'll be buying more to replace my old 2.1A and 2.4A outlets.

I stick with these 12V devices because my inverter (and I think most) will sense when there's no load and use very little power. But a USB transformer will keep it active and wasting electricity. Plus the 120V outlets with built-in USB ports will be more expensive to upgrade when (not if) there's a new standard.
Thanks! That device led me to this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092M1XS1J/ref=emc_b_5_t

Same brand as the ones you are using, but they can do 20W PD if fed 12V or 30W PD fed from 24V.
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Old 11-10-2021, 05:19 PM   #16
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USB specs evolve relatively fast, from USB-A,B,C connectors that go along with bus speed. On a boat, I’d hate to have to change something out again in a few years. A recent car rental had only USB-C adapters ! I didn’t have a cable for my iPhone, but it did have wireless charging built in. The “good ol” cigarette lighter plug (probably not PC to say that…12V AUX Power) has lasted much longer. You can always get an adapter for that that plugs in unobtrusively for the specific device. Hey in a few years all portable electronics may go wireless charging like now. That’s my $0.02
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Old 11-10-2021, 05:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbman View Post
Another contender is the Leviton T5635-W USB Dual Type-C in wall charge outlet.



This device obviously replaces an existing AC outlet and provides two power delivery compatible ports, with 30W of charging max, either 30W to one port or 15W to each for a total of 30W.

This is pretty low and it would require an inverter or shore power to operate. This is not as a big of a downside as you might think, all options for power deliver will require the voltage to be 'boosted' from the DC system, with the inherent losses in doing that, so even the DC powered solutions are using an inverter under the hood to boost that DC voltage.

These go for about $50 and would be very simple to install. The low power rating is a bummer though, only 30W total. I do like that it's got a name behind it and it's likely to be reliable.





We have them all over our house, and they work fine. But I have neve tried to charge my laptop from it.
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Old 11-10-2021, 05:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by GingerMd View Post
USB specs evolve relatively fast, from USB-A,B,C connectors that go along with bus speed. On a boat, I’d hate to have to change something out again in a few years. A recent car rental had only USB-C adapters ! I didn’t have a cable for my iPhone, but it did have wireless charging built in. The “good ol” cigarette lighter plug (probably not PC to say that…12V AUX Power) has lasted much longer. You can always get an adapter for that that plugs in unobtrusively for the specific device. Hey in a few years all portable electronics may go wireless charging like now. That’s my $0.02

I purchased another cigarette lighter 12v plug in that had a C type and two USB-A outlets, one of which had a higher output. I've had it for a couple years and it has worked great. Very easy to get another one that supports new formats as they come up without having to change the wiring in the boat or drill new holes in panels.


I installed some 120v outlets that had incorporated USB-A outlets. Obsolete after a few years and not what I want to use when not on shore power. I wouldn't do it again.
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Old 11-10-2021, 06:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by sbman View Post
Thanks! That device led me to this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092M1XS1J/ref=emc_b_5_t

Same brand as the ones you are using, but they can do 20W PD if fed 12V or 30W PD fed from 24V.
Sweet! That's why I only bought 2 early this year. I knew better versions would be available by the time I got around to updating my other outlets. And I wanted to give them a season of use to confirm reliability.

FYI, another feature that's relatively new is that a lot of them come with an on/off button. Presumably, it cuts down on the parasitic load on your batteries, but also those backlit outlets can be annoying at night so it's nice to be able to shut them off.
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Old 11-10-2021, 10:05 PM   #20
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You could try calling these guys, https://vetco.net/ They are an old school brick and mortar electronics shop that has many electronic components. They also have some ready made solutions so they may have what you are after. They usually have some stuff in the store that is not listed on their website.
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