solar or generator?

[Ken E.]

Putting aside the electric galley stove, why do you need the generator if just for redundancy? Presumably you have two alternators already. I know it's not great to use the main engines as massively oversized and inefficient generators, but they'll certainly do the trick in a pinch. To me, redundancy means it can get you through the cruise until a repair can be made. And solar is really really reliable.

Socal, you can make your own choices. Mine are, when I'm 50 miles from nowhere in Alaska, I want a generator. That's my choice.

 

[socalrider]

Socal, you can make your own choices. Mine are, when I'm 50 miles from nowhere in Alaska, I want redundancy. That's my choice.

Sorry if I came across as snarky, it was a sincere question - not begrudging anyone their choices - I certainly understand that generators are sometimes necessary!

 

[dhays]

This is my first power boat and first boat with a Genset. As a former sailor, I conserve water and power with an almost religious intensity.

Right now as I am sitting at anchor the Genset is running. It is running right below my feet and while not loud, it is a bit annoying. No one can hear it 30 yards away.

I have a single 365w solar panel as it was the most I could conveniently fit. Today was mostly cloudy. The panel delivered only 1 kWh over the course of the day.

I like having both the solar and Genset. The Genset handles the Bulk and some absorb phase and the solar will top off the battery during the day if there is reasonable sun. However, that means turning off the inverter unless needed.

So usually we run the Genset twice a day, morning and evening, while making coffee and heating water.

If we are moving the boat during the day, we don't need to run the Genset as the alternator and solar will keep up with the demands.

So if you want to conserve power like a sailor, you can do just fine. Gas stove/oven, drastically ration inverter use, and only take showers after the engine has heated the water for you. That works and I did it for decades.

OTOH, if your comfort items keep expanding, get a Genset and supliment with solar. It works well.

 

[Simi 60]

We rarely use or need the Genset with 2.5kw of solar (9x275w)
Saying that, our current battery bank is on its way out so the Genset is bought into play to keep things going until our new bank arrives.
Then I am hoping with 840ah @ 24v of lifepo4 that the Genset will never be needed.

Considering putting up another 2kw if panels after the batts have been in a while, see how we go.

 

[ksanders]

I wouldn’t be without a generator. And that’s because I want hot water, fast recharge while at anchor, water maker for limitless fresh water, washer and dryer, and air conditioning.

So I thing you need to decide what matters to you, what can practically fit on your boat, then evaluate power needs. Lots of people live happily without, and lots of people don’t want to live without. Your pick.

I feel the same way.

I do not look at a generator as a necessary evil, something to be minimized or eliminated if at all possible.

I look at a generator as just another part of my boats power system. Something to be used as needed, just like any of the other systyems on my boat.

I also don't want to give up the comforts that a large boat naturally has. I want to shower daily for as long as it takes. I want to do laundry as need be, not wait til I can go to a laundrymat on shore. I also want to be able to wash off salt spray when i get to a nice anchorage. My boat has large windows and it's nice to see out of them. I run my business from my boat so I need satellite communications, and that takes power. I like having two refrigerators and a home sized deep freeze to store provisions. I like my electric stove as well.

All those things take energy. I might add solar next season when I head to warmer climates but for now solar just does not make much sense for my boat. It's not going to save me any appreciable money, and it's not going to make much difference in generator hours.

Plus... I have a perfectly good generator.

 

[Simi 60]

I wouldn’t be without a generator. And that’s because I want hot water, fast recharge while at anchor, water maker for limitless fresh water, washer and dryer, and air conditioning.

.

Our 2.5kw of solar runs everything, just not all at the same time

But after the battery bank is charged, usually by 10am the 240v hot water system with a 1.8kw element gets done, about 20 - amp draw but done by 12:00 and batts back at 100% by 1:00

Every 3rd day our 150lph watermaker gets a few hours running to keep the 2500 litre water tanks full, slight - amp draw

The solar puts out a lot more power than our front loading washing machine uses so + amps in

The vessel is well ventilated and shaded, no A/C needed even in summer in the tropics.
Infact the solar panels on the roof with 2 inch air gap stops sun hitting the roof keeping the boat cooler.

 

[dhays]

Our 2.5kw of solar runs everything, just not all at the same time

But after the battery bank is charged, usually by 10am the 240v hot water system with a 1.8kw element gets done, about 20 - amp draw but done by 12:00 and batts back at 100% by 1:00

Every 3rd day our 150lph watermaker gets a few hours running to keep the 2500 litre water tanks full, slight - amp draw

The solar puts out a lot more power than our front loading washing machine uses so + amps in

The vessel is well ventilated and shaded, no A/C needed even in summer in the tropics.
Infact the solar panels on the roof with 2 inch air gap stops sun hitting the roof keeping the boat cooler.

I’ve long been jealous of your solar system. However, you have at least two things that I don’t have;
1. Plenty of sunshine
2. Lots of available real estate for panels.

 

[CharlieO.]

I'm not anti generator by any means, there is a good chance the boat we purchase will have a generator and I will be perfectly happy with that. I would probably still add some expandable solar if that's the case.

Anyone ever get tax credits for adding solar to your boat?

 

[Hippocampus]

We put two D400s and multiple Kyocera panels on our boat in an effort to not run a genset. Yes, there were months at a stretch given we had 1020 of batteries that a genset wasn’t necessary. Actually would pick a day and vacuum, make water, run the AC, charge the power tools in order to run the genset with a sufficient load and exercise it.
That said there were weeks where it rained daily, no wind and we were genset dependent to keep the food from spoiling.
If your boat is your house it’s a different world. I have a genset for my house. We oversized the propane tank by a factor of two and buried it. The dirt dwelling is zero footprint between geothermal and one whole side of the roof being solar panels. We are so energy efficient with a HERS score so good even in the winter we get a monthly check .
Think Li banks, efficient appliances, solar and wind on boats misses the point. Even in a super efficient house with the latest and greatest technology and storage batteries once or twice a year the propane genset goes on in anger. Maybe from a blizzard or a cyclonic storm but it’s needed to run the pumps for the geo, keep the food cold and the shower water hot. Fully expect that will continue as with MMCC there with be periods both on land and on a boat alt.engery won’t function.
So if your boat is used seasonally and you’re a marina to marina sailor with a bit of forethought there’s no need for a genset. But if you’re on your boat for long periods of time at anchor unless you stay in cruising grounds where production is guaranteed as said by several here you need a genset. Do think you need food and water to survive so don’t think it’s just a “lifestyle “ question. We choose a spectra Cape Horn extreme as the water maker. Most efficient and no electronics at all. Bulletproof. We ran it on sunny days all day. Even with no AC running just frig/freezer and usual house draws the batteries weren’t at 100% at the end of the day. No biggie as after the next day they were. But put together a week of rain or clouds with high humidity and 90f temps. Now AC is needed to prevent heatstroke or even to get comfortable enough to sleep. So maybe it’s “lifestyle” most of the times but sometimes it’s “life”.

 

[FF]

BY installing a propane reefer with the propane range and oven your electrical needs become near zero.

One good sized alt with a 3 or 4 stage V regulator , and 2 banks of 6v golf carts would work fine.

A solar 100W would be perfect to take the house set from anout85% to 100% everyday.


KISS

 

[twistedtree]

Our 2.5kw of solar runs everything, just not all at the same time

You are one of the lucky few who can fit that much solar on your boat. I which I could do the same, but am please I was even able to get 1.3kw. And I also suspect you have pretty consistent sun in your area.


My house is off-grid solar, and we similarly operate it like a normal house. Heat, hot water, and clothes dryer are propane, so that removes a lot of the big loads. With that our generator never runs except for November and December, but in those months it is absolutely needed.


I feel the same on the boat. I love having solar, inverters, a large battery bank, thoughtful power consumption, and quiet at-anchor time. But when the need arises, I want a generator ready to run.

 

[Ken E.]

BY installing a propane reefer with the propane range and oven your electrical needs become near zero.

+1 on propane refers. I knew nothing about them until I bought an RV recently with ac/dc/propane. I run it when we're off grid. Uses very little gas and it keeps things very cold.

 

[CharlieO.]

Is anyone running a propane fridge on their boat? I always thought they had to be maintained in a fairly level postion to work properly?

 

[GoneDiving]

In my mind, relying predominantly on solar only works if you have the acreage to install sufficient panels. If you do then they certainly win in terms of maintenance, noise and convenience. If not, then it comes down to how you will be using the vessel: if motoring everyday then large alternator(s) make sense; if not, then a suitably sized generator is the go.

I'd argue that a system can be sized to power large loads (refers, aircons etc) if you have the space available. A large single pitch roof was a major attraction when we purchased our vessel as I knew that we would be installing large solar and battery banks to power a domestic galley, dive equipment etc etc etc. 5000w of solar and 10000w of inverters should see all our loads catered for.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/idiots-guide-building-big-lithium-bank-58209.html

Good luck.

 

[Turtle Blues]

If it's going to be a trawler I vote for comfort. My usual start sequence is genset, port engine,starboard engine. Pretty much everything running whenever it's needed. No load balancing, no energy management. Put in a generator big enough to handle the full load. It's nice to be able to spend the time in comfort. Hot showers while the ac is on and someone is cooking.

 

[AusCan]

Everyone has differing needs. I like to keep it simple.

I have a single 250 watt solar panel, a 480Ah AGM house bank and a 120A alternator. My only electricity uses are a fridge and freezer, lights, fans and a few minor accessories.
Solar keeps the battery fully charged all but a few days of the year. I do have to run the engine for 15 minutes if I want hot water, but I rarely anchor in one place for more than a day or two.
We do get a lot of sunshine, and have no need for AC so it was an easy choice for us. I'd prefer to run the engine very occasionally rather than lose the space (and money) for a generator that would only be run a dozen hours a year.

 

[Simi 60]

You are one of the lucky few who can fit that much solar on your boat

It was one of the #1 requirements

With solar being so very cheap now if it didnt have the roof space or a top deck that could carry a framework to carry a large array it never got a second look.

 

[GoneDiving]

If it's going to be a trawler I vote for comfort....

I totally agree. For me, flicking a switch and everything works is comfort. Managing spares, performing maintenance and pretending to tolerate noise and vibration, not so much. ?

That's why two gensets went out and panels are going in (at about half the cost of a silenced replacement).

Yes, I do have the luxury of lots of roof space so this may not be an option for everyone.

 

[OldDan1943]

Yes, I do have the luxury of lots of roof space so this may not be an option for everyone.

I have heard some folks put collapsable outrigger to allow for more panels at anchor. Sail boats often put a frame up at their stern to install a panel or 2.

 

[FlyWright]

Last summer, I installed 400W on the fwd rails like wings and have another 100W on the foredeck. I can angle them all for max effectiveness, if needed. The panels have cut my generator runs from 2 hrs to about 30 mins per day for heating lunch and dinner.

For yucks this summer, I heated water with a solar shower bag to avoid the generator or engine runs to heat water!! It worked very well for daily showering solo.

 

[mvweebles]

If it's going to be a trawler I vote for comfort. My usual start sequence is genset, port engine,starboard engine. Pretty much everything running whenever it's needed. No load balancing, no energy management. Put in a generator big enough to handle the full load. It's nice to be able to spend the time in comfort. Hot showers while the ac is on and someone is cooking.

Ah yes, dinosaur with earth cooling around you (no offense TurtleBlues, just happened to grab your post, but there are many others with similar sentiment). For every one who down-selects solar in favor of generator, there are probably 100 who go the other direction.

A nice shower? I have needed one more than once after trying to get the generator fixed. Symbiotic relationship.....

Peter

 

[GoneDiving]

I have heard some folks put collapsable outrigger to allow for more panels at anchor. Sail boats often put a frame up at their stern to install a panel or 2.

For a smaller vessel with limited roof space, I'd still put my money and effort into batteries rather than a stand alone generator. If the OP only needs storage for a fridge and some light loads, it would be very easy to build a system that could be recharged while motoring once or twice a week from the alternator. Marginal new parts, fuel burn, wear and tear, noise etc would be limited.

Cheers

 

[rslifkin]

I'm not anti generator by any means, there is a good chance the boat we purchase will have a generator and I will be perfectly happy with that. I would probably still add some expandable solar if that's the case.

Anyone ever get tax credits for adding solar to your boat?

Yes, you can claim the residential solar tax credit against a boat as a second home.

 

[OldDan1943]

Last summer, I installed 400W on the fwd rails like wings and have another 100W on the foredeck.

You are serious about solar.

Do you have a picture of the wings deployed?

Per heating water in a bag, I have a beautiful slender young lady with long beautiful hair..... It has to washed everyday. I guess I would need 3 or 4 bags


And NO, I would tell you when she was buck naked in the cockpit taking a shower.

 

[Gdavid]

For summer cruising, I find the water heater to keep the water plenty hot for up to a day. On one boat it was mounted in the engine room and my current boat it is back in the lazaret, both had heat exchangers plumbed to the engine's coolant system and I usually motor somewhere else at least every other day. I do run the generator daily for the galley and battery charging (AC only fridge fed by inverter) but I never need to turn on the water heater during the summer. At the dock, I tend to use the shower on shore so I haven't turned on the water heater all season. Everyone's has slightly different habits but it just isn't a big requirement from my experience if you are cruising in warm weather.

 

[FlyWright]

You are serious about solar.

Do you have a picture of the wings deployed?

Per heating water in a bag, I have a beautiful slender young lady with long beautiful hair..... It has to washed everyday. I guess I would need 3 or 4 bags


And NO, I would tell you when she was buck naked in the cockpit taking a shower.

The wings are deployed in the photo above. Zoom in or maybe search TF for other photos on my solar thread.

The 10 Gal shower bag got to 104* sitting on my foredeck at anchor. I just fed the 1/2 hose with shut-off shower head into the head shower to gravity feed without a pump. I typically use less than 2 gals on a navy shower...and I take one every day.

Maybe the 1st mate needs a navy shower lesson??? I'd be available for advice.

 

[OldDan1943]

I typically use less than 2 gals on a navy shower...and I take one every day.

Maybe the 1st mate needs a navy shower lesson??? I'd be available for advice.

I stopped taking navy showers when I left the navy. I guess that is why I have a water maker.

Per advising her, 'In your dreams.' :lol:

 

[OldDan1943]

The wings are deployed in the photo above. Zoom in or maybe search TF for other photos on my solar thread.

Ah, after careful looking and enlarging, I see the wings.
How many panels make up a wing?
Looks nice.

 

[FF]

"Is anyone running a propane fridge on their boat? I always thought they had to be maintained in a fairly level postion to work properly?"

In the past the propane fridges had to be near level to function. Today if you can stay in bed with out being belted in , thats close enough.

We use an old Motorola,( 50year?) before they sold out to another brand and it was superb.

A tank lasted almost a month (20# tank , not the new idiot 15# overfill tank) and it was a delight to have the boat on a mooring ball all summer , row out and the beer was cold and the ice cream hard as a rock.

Any motion , rocking etc. , helps the fridge .

There are multiple ways to install the fridges so they are quite safe , same with a propane range.

 

[catalinajack]

Ah yes, dinosaur with earth cooling around you (no offense TurtleBlues, just happened to grab your post, but there are many others with similar sentiment). For every one who down-selects solar in favor of generator, there are probably 100 who go the other direction.



A nice shower? I have needed one more than once after trying to get the generator fixed. Symbiotic relationship.....



Peter

100 to 1? I don't think so. I just walked my docks and found maybe 5% have solar.