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Old 10-11-2021, 08:50 PM   #141
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Time to go to bed for rest. Tomorrow is going to be a long day searching for subsidies. Damn!!! Poverty sucks.............or at least that is what friends tell me. Good night Dan!
foggysail, feel sorry for me, I am living on a "fixed" income
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Old 10-13-2021, 07:31 AM   #142
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LOL, your boat can be considered your primary or 2nd home.

Sure you can document your boat to avoid state registration but then, the Feds know about your boat when you document it.

Of course, there is the option of continually changing the name and hailing port on the stern of your boat.
The IRS does not care about what you own except when you die and leave an estate with a value in EXCESS of $11.7 million ($23.4 miilion for a couple) if you die in 2021. Goes up every year as the amount is tied to the inflation rate. The IRS does care that you paid taxes on any income you used to pay for assets. Other Feds do not care about your boat. By the way, in Florida, documented boats must also be registered.
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Old 10-13-2021, 09:34 AM   #143
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The IRS does not care about what you own except when you die and leave an estate with a value in EXCESS of $11.7 million ($23.4 miilion for a couple) if you die in 2021. Goes up every year as the amount is tied to the inflation rate. The IRS does care that you paid taxes on any income you used to pay for assets. Other Feds do not care about your boat. By the way, in Florida, documented boats must also be registered.
Couple of corrections:
The estate tax threshold limit is temporary. If not renewed, it returns to 5 million in a few years.

Documented vessels in Florida pay a use fee which equals the registration fee. They specifically don't register it and the number starts with DO to indicate it's a documented vessels. Further, there is no requirement to display the number whereas a registered vessel must.

I realize this is all nit picking, but it took me a week to straighten out THEIR problem, when they originally issued my trawler registration numbers and refused to renew my user fee in year 6. Cleaning up their mess involved me proving I had paid sales tax on the boat. They only keep that proof for 5 years, but you're required to keep it until you no longer own the boat.

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Old 10-13-2021, 10:54 AM   #144
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Couple of corrections:
The estate tax threshold limit is temporary. If not renewed, it returns to 5 million in a few years.

Documented vessels in Florida pay a use fee which equals the registration fee. They specifically don't register it and the number starts with DO to indicate it's a documented vessels. Further, there is no requirement to display the number whereas a registered vessel must.

I realize this is all nit picking, but it took me a week to straighten out THEIR problem, when they originally issued my trawler registration numbers and refused to renew my user fee in year 6. Cleaning up their mess involved me proving I had paid sales tax on the boat. They only keep that proof for 5 years, but you're required to keep it until you no longer own the boat.

Ted

I had a similar experience from Massachusetts for my old sailboat almost 10 years after purchase. I received a notice from the State demanding proof I paid the sales tax.

I called the collection office number provided on their letterhead and explained to a representative that I would happily provide as many copies as they desired PROVIDING THEY SEND A STAMPED SELF ADDRESSED ENVELOPE TO ME. Nothing more from them for almost 2 years when I did get their envelope. I returned copies of my payment and never heard more from them.

Things were really bad around our harbors during that period. The State had their environmental police with harbor masters boarding out of state documented boats demanding sales tax or user tax payment proof.
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Old 10-13-2021, 05:44 PM   #145
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Couple of corrections:

The estate tax threshold limit is temporary. If not renewed, it returns to 5 million in a few years.



Documented vessels in Florida pay a use fee which equals the registration fee. They specifically don't register it and the number starts with DO to indicate it's a documented vessels. Further, there is no requirement to display the number whereas a registered vessel must.



I realize this is all nit picking, but it took me a week to straighten out THEIR problem, when they originally issued my trawler registration numbers and refused to renew my user fee in year 6. Cleaning up their mess involved me proving I had paid sales tax on the boat. They only keep that proof for 5 years, but you're required to keep it until you no longer own the boat.



Ted
Okay, it will return to $5 million ($10 miilion for a couple) in a few years. I will wager that few of us on this board will have any worries when it does. I know I won't come anywhere close.
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:37 PM   #146
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Okay, it will return to $5 million ($10 miilion for a couple) in a few years. I will wager that few of us on this board will have any worries when it does. I know I won't come anywhere close.
Could very much depend on whether inflation keeps going. Also, there's a bill in the "Ways and Means " committee to pay for proposed spending. They intend to cut the threshold well below $5M starting 1st of the year.

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Old 10-15-2021, 09:02 AM   #147
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These states are stupid. Rhode Island has no sales tax on boats. So nearly everyone from Connecticut, south eastern Massachusetts, and even NY documents in Rhode Island. Then off they go cruising never spending more than 90 days in any jurisdiction. Escape sales tax and use fees. Result is for boats of any significant size they home berth in Rhode Island. Marine service industries flourish. Those industries in MA, Conn, NY lose jobs. Rhode Island gets more tax income via income, real estate and other taxes to more than make up multiples of the one time sales tax on a boat and even annual use fees. Boat owners save tens of thousands on sale tax so are more than willing to home port in Rhode Island even if it means an occasional longer drive. Where we home ported in the past (Barrington j would say 90% of owners had out of state license plates on their car. On our finger slip there wasn’t a single owner with a dirt house in Rhode Island.
Think even FLA is blowing it. They have a vibrant recreational marine industry unlike the collapse in the Rhode Island neighboring states. Few of the significant boats violate their stay restrictions. See a lot of C.I. flagged or other “foreign” boats on cruising permits or US flagged in R.I. Or Delaware or other low tax state. Many of those folks would stay but move on to follow the rules and not pay additional use fees or taxes.
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:49 AM   #148
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These states are stupid...
Yep, you're exactly right, they're astoundingly dumb in my opinion, completely ignoring basic human nature. The stories about the "Pandora Papers" are in the news at the moment, all about evil rich people parking their money in various places, including -- of all places South Dakota. Lots of reasons for that but among others, we're a state where the original intent of a trust is very strongly maintained. If rich Mrs. Vanderbilt from New York wants her cat Fluffy to get her millions, then by golly Fluffy will almost certainly get the millions no matter how much the Vanderbilt children squawk. As a result of factors like that (and others like the state tax environment), billions are parked in South Dakota. Tax and financial and economic rules and regs matter. Those states are so short sighted. Strangle your marine industry so you collect $5.
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:56 AM   #149
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How did we segue from "Solar or generator" to state sales tax rules?
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Old 10-15-2021, 10:07 AM   #150
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How did we segue from "Solar or generator" to state sales tax rules?
We/they did not segue.
Just an abrupt 90 degrees.
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Old 10-15-2021, 12:13 PM   #151
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Maybe thread drift is the wrong phrase. "Thread coming about, duck your head!" maybe.
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Old 10-18-2021, 07:26 AM   #152
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Returning to solar panels. We’re refitting the boat have a large area of the boat deck dedicated to two large (house size panels). Can’t really tell current production as it’s autumn, cloudy or rainy recently. But do know they’re ~10 years old. Wondering if it’s worth it to replace them while we’re transiently on the hard. Has output increased enough to be worth it? Which brand would you pick for rigid frame panels?
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:46 AM   #153
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Returning to solar panels. We’re refitting the boat have a large area of the boat deck dedicated to two large (house size panels). Can’t really tell current production as it’s autumn, cloudy or rainy recently. But do know they’re ~10 years old. Wondering if it’s worth it to replace them while we’re transiently on the hard. Has output increased enough to be worth it? Which brand would you pick for rigid frame panels?
I just got a quote for 445 W panels at €152 each. These are "house panels" approximately 1m x 2m.

Three years ago I bought panels from the same supplier. Those were 320 W (largest available) and cost €190 each.

So, Watts per € have increased by 74% in three years. Not quite Moore's law but close, at least in this example.
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Old 10-18-2021, 10:27 AM   #154
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I think SunPower still makes the most efficient panels out there, but also among the most expensive. Worth a look - also in 10 years your panels will probably be down from their original rating (0.5-1% per year is the rule of thumb for output degradation).

That said if you've got a list of projects & aren't sure you'll need more production, I'd be inclined to back burner that one assuming the system works - you're probably looking at a ~25-35% increase by going back to new, which may or may not move the needle on boat enjoyment. If it ain't broke...
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Old 10-18-2021, 10:46 AM   #155
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Returning to solar panels. We’re refitting the boat have a large area of the boat deck dedicated to two large (house size panels). Can’t really tell current production as it’s autumn, cloudy or rainy recently. But do know they’re ~10 years old. Wondering if it’s worth it to replace them while we’re transiently on the hard. Has output increased enough to be worth it? Which brand would you pick for rigid frame panels?
Solar panels degrade over time - those panels are likely in the 85%-90% of original efficiency. Plus there are better panels now than even a few years ago. The best panels were SunPower (now Maxeon).

If I can suggest, if you are looking to replace 10-year old panels, you may want to look at the controller too. 10-years ago, MPPT were not common and are an improvement over older PWM controllers. Sizing the voltage/amp components isn't tremendously complex, but I'd ping a new thread with specifics including wire-run lengths, pictures, any concerns about shading (or if the panels are on an arched top), etc.. Best solar input I've gotten has been on CruisersForum, though there are some decent solar folks on this forum too.

Good luck -

Peter
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Old 10-18-2021, 04:55 PM   #156
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Returning to solar panels. We’re refitting the boat have a large area of the boat deck dedicated to two large (house size panels). Can’t really tell current production as it’s autumn, cloudy or rainy recently. But do know they’re ~10 years old. Wondering if it’s worth it to replace them while we’re transiently on the hard. Has output increased enough to be worth it? Which brand would you pick for rigid frame panels?
10 years ago, residential panels averaged about 200 watts each. There are now many options ~400 watts in the same size (3'x6'). I have three such residential sized panels on my boat at 385W each. Newer panels are probably also better in low light situations. My 1155 rated watts of panels put out 250-300 watts of power on a overcast day, and are hitting 800+ on sunny days (flat mounted, autumn). Rain clouds bring it to nothing but that rarely happens here.

If your panels are down near the 200W spec, You could potentially double the output of the system in the same physical space, if your older panels are closer to 300W it might not be worth the effort. You might also need a new controller to deal with higher output panels.
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:25 PM   #157
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How did we segue from "Solar or generator" to state sales tax rules? :confused:
An excellent example of soft power diplomacy.
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Old 10-18-2021, 10:22 PM   #158
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How did we segue from "Solar or generator" to state sales tax rules?
Rats, I was just getting interested in changing my name to "Fluffy Vanderbilt"..all those millions....
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Old 10-19-2021, 06:45 AM   #159
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10 years ago, residential panels averaged about 200 watts each. There are now many options ~400 watts in the same size (3'x6'). I have three such residential sized panels on my boat at 385W each. Newer panels are probably also better in low light situations. My 1155 rated watts of panels put out 250-300 watts of power on a overcast day, and are hitting 800+ on sunny days (flat mounted, autumn). Rain clouds bring it to nothing but that rarely happens here.

If your panels are down near the 200W spec, You could potentially double the output of the system in the same physical space, if your older panels are closer to 300W it might not be worth the effort. You might also need a new controller to deal with higher output panels.

Agreed, new panels will likely be a good bit higher output. As far as real world output, on a good, sunny day, I've seen my 2x 410W panels (made by Trina Solar) sustain output in the high 700s and I've seen peaks of just over the 820w rating.



I've also seen total daily production of 3.7 kwh more than once, and that's with the panels not being at full output for a couple of hours later in the afternoon due to full batteries and not enough load to get the full available output. So 4 kwh or a little more is possible on a good day from 820w of panels, although I wouldn't count on getting that much (any less than perfect day will give less, but somewhere in the 3.2 kwh range is pretty easy to get provided it's not solid overcast or rainy).
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Old 10-19-2021, 07:45 AM   #160
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Thanks guys. Due to aesthetic considerations downsized the pilot house screen from 16” to 12”. Without a large amount of carpentry the 16” wouldn’t fit so have a couple of boat bucks to play with. Will look into SunPower and others as well as new controllers. Had Kyocera on last boat and was well pleased with them.
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