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Old 01-17-2020, 10:02 PM   #61
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one of the smart things I have done is use all Victron stuff, which works together, and with their control units, I can take care of the electric management and bilge pumps and auto generator start and only use shore power if the solar panels did not charges the battery enough , and only turn on the electric hotwater heater IF the batteries are full and there is solar.

besides that I have a few arduino's being used, like a smart engine blower who only starts if the Delta T is 25 or more and if the Delta T is 30 it turns on an additional blower

Arduino measuring the humidity and temperature and based on settings turns on small Computer fans.

An Arduino as a intelligent bilge pump controller with no need to use a float and have a variable pump and dormant time between checks.

Thought about going to a Raspberry Pi, since the Victron management modules are based on that , and the software Victron uses was made public domain and just let that unit deal with everything.

So what do you wish to make smart/ automate?
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:52 PM   #62
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Thanks Jim! I am here often depending on how many stupidly expensive/complex projects I have gotten myself into.

I've tried adapting a lot of home IoT stuff on the boat, and it works somewhat for some things, but in general sucks for a number of reasons. The primary reasons it has failed for me have been it's lack of marine-grade protection, reliance on higher speed "always on" internet connections, and assumptions of homes vs. boats.

That being said, I have used SmartThings to do automation of heaters and a lot more, but most of the automation I do now is taking marine grade systems and trying to connect them with other systems so that there is data being shared everywhere, and then try layering automation on top of that.

The more interesting things have been with taking that data from those standalone systems, shoving it into SignalK, and then using other systems like InfluxDB and Grafana to graph it, alert on it, and send messages to other systems to do something there.

Of course I have the usual integrations so I can yell at a speaker and turn lights on and off, get temperatures and weather forecasts, and more. But those only work with a good internet connection. Even with my extensive internet systems, even a small passage across Puget Sound will result in some section, even if only for 5 minutes, where things are disconnected. IoT and automation stuff really, really does not like that. Its also very disconcerting to have no ability to turn on/off lights if they rely on that.

Where I have spent the majority of my time is just in visibility and data collection. I have everything that could be networked or connected, and then some, connected. I want to be able to see it from anywhere, on any device. Having all of that data then do something to the boat is where I am very cautious - it has to be very reliable, marine-grade, and tested to work before I'm going to trust it with, say, my bilge pump or switching on/off a load that could cause a fire.



I'm supposed to get a beta unit at some point. Sounds like final approvals and such are still happening with the various agencies. Vesper posted somewhere (I forget) that they expect customer units to ship in March 2020.
Nice post, but we have two very much different goals.

I want, no I need a highly reliable alarm and monitoring system for my boat so that when Iím away I know that all is well.

What I also wanted was something off the shelf so that I so not have to do code level programming.

Any functionality while at sea is far secondary. I am on the boat and do not need automation, or alarming or monitoring, although those functions are handy, they are far from necessary.

I got everything I wanted in a home based security and automation system. I chose smartthings, but there are other players. I just liked smartthings because it was well...Easy.

Yes it relies on a always on internet connection, but so does every commercial alarm system. It cannot inform you of things without a communications path.

We can make this idea of alarm monitoring really complex, to the point where it takes not just an engineer, but a speciality automation engineer to deploy. Or we can make it easy. At this stage in life Iíll take easy.
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Old 01-18-2020, 03:44 AM   #63
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For opts w/o relying on undependable WiFi.

Here is an option for 120 v non-WiFi remote via cellular.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...it11-12453.php



U-Phone-iT 4G is a programmable remote switch for 115 Volt AC equipment, activated by telephone call or by text messages generated by free iPhone App or any text capable cell phone.

U-Phone-iT 4G will execute a stored ďResidentĒ Run cycle on receipt of a phone call. Two 115 VAC outlets are independently controlled, allowing the unit to service separate devices. Outlets are easily activated by ON/OFF or user- selected ON times commands.

An approved user list and password protects U-Phone-iT 4G from unauthorized activations.

The device can be interrogated for current status and stored programming. It responds promptly by Text message
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:20 AM   #64
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For opts w/o relying on undependable WiFi.

Here is an option for 120 v non-WiFi remote via cellular.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...it11-12453.php



U-Phone-iT 4G is a programmable remote switch for 115 Volt AC equipment, activated by telephone call or by text messages generated by free iPhone App or any text capable cell phone.

U-Phone-iT 4G will execute a stored ďResidentĒ Run cycle on receipt of a phone call. Two 115 VAC outlets are independently controlled, allowing the unit to service separate devices. Outlets are easily activated by ON/OFF or user- selected ON times commands.

An approved user list and password protects U-Phone-iT 4G from unauthorized activations.

The device can be interrogated for current status and stored programming. It responds promptly by Text message
Internet coverage is something we are depending on more and more every year.

What I use is cellular backed up by a satellite link. I have two separate hi gigabit plans with two carriers. For satellite I use KVHís system where I get 2 mbps of data pretty much anywhere on the planet.

This is managed by a Cradlepoint AER1600 router.
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:31 AM   #65
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Internet coverage is something we are depending on more and more every year.

What I use is cellular backed up by a satellite link. I have two separate hi gigabit plans with two carriers. For satellite I use KVHís system where I get 2 mbps of data pretty much anywhere on the planet.

This is managed by a Cradlepoint AER1600 router.
You're right and we're all at various stages in the dependency curve. We are absolutely 100% won't leave home without internet access as are you. Half of that dependency is business related but the other half is personal where we just cannot find it acceptable to not have communications at all times. Whether it's the ability to receive and answer business emails or the ability to talk on the phone or to skype with our niece, it's important to us.

Also cruising grounds and type of cruising figure in. Much of our cruising is offshore. We are unwilling to wait until nighttime to have communications. Much of your cruising is in areas of limited cell connectivity.

As time passes, more and more boaters will find themselves sharing your desire and our desire for 24/7 connectivity.
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Old 01-18-2020, 03:00 PM   #66
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The only way you are going to get 100 % connectivity on the northern area of the west coast is via satellite. Populations, or lack thereof, and isolated areas in Desolation Sound and north, including the Broughtons, anywhere north of there (except for the Prince Rupert area), and the Alaskan Panhandle and Haida Gwaii. This state of affairs will probably remain for the next 100 years.

I am generally fairly with it when it comes to new technology. For the folks here that want to remain technologically challenged, it really is not that important since there decisions are only relevant to their boat. In my hobby of model railroading, there were significant battles over the introduction to computer engine running, on the worst day I saw on all the MRing forums I belonged to, 14 threads were locked in one 10 hour period on the Atlas forum. Can you imagine that happening here? Eventually Atlas shut its forum down, it was just taking up too much time to settle disputes, etc

Concerning my son (millennial) who takes great pleasure in turning everything manual and analog into something smart, we have disagreements. So almost all the lights in his condo are on a smart gizmo. You know - "Hey Google, turn on the hall lights." The problem is: if you don't get the command right, no lights. So something that was simple and a no brainer, walk in and hit a switch, can now be a challenge when I go to his place and use it when he and his partner are away. On a good day, I can get half the lights on.

But I too have one light on the "Hey Google" system. This light is close to the front door so that if my wife and I are out latter than anticipated, I can turn that light on at a distance and we have some light inside when we walk through the front door.

And on my boat I am going to purchase one of those cheap goose neck lamps for something like $18 and add in a bulb such as I link below. Everything to use the light bulb on the internet is already in the light bulb. So if I arrive at my boat latter than anticipated I can turn the light on and have some light available when I arrive.

In the computer wars in the model railroad forums (these peaked around 2004), I used to use the argument that the young guys (almost %100 guys) coming into the hobby expect it to be computer run, its their ethos. The same will happen to boats.

https://www.amazon.ca/Multicolor-Com...12300676&psc=1
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Old 01-18-2020, 03:06 PM   #67
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Negative on the 100 year comment. A couple of large private ventures are now launching thousands of LEO sats.
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Old 01-18-2020, 03:17 PM   #68
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Details for Internet Service?

ta
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
Yes, I have a smart boat I suppose.

I have a samsung smartthings hub and a variety of devices.

Here is a live screen shot.

As you can see, I am monitoring electrical power, bilge water, smoke/CO, intrusion, and temperature.

Since I keep my boat in Alaska I have made temperature monitoring and heating system control a priority. I can not only control my diesel fueled furnaces, I can also control my backup built in electric heat, as well as itís energy usage to not exceed my available shore power capability.

When anything happens on the boat I get a text message indicating the condition, and some conditions will activate the onboard sirens to attract immediate attention.

This is all using off the shelf components, used for ther manufacturers intended functions. The system requires no code level programming skills, and is configured through the manufacturers GUI screens.

I also have a full set of pan tilt zoom onboard cameras to monitor the engine room, and other areas. Attached is a live shot of my salon and my engine room.

For all this to work one needs a onboard Local Area Network. This is provided by a Cradlepoint router that accesses the internet through carrier and hardware redundant cellular LTE connections that are backed up by a 2mbps satellite link. for when the cellular networks are out of range or unavailable. The comm and alarm systems run on a dedicated UPS that is powered by the whole boat inverter system, and fully alarmed. This prevents boat electrical issues from immediately rendering the com and alarm system inoperative. The cradlepoint router is also remotly accessble through itís manufacturers cloud based management system.
Question or request for ksandsers:

Thanks for your post. I totally understand the set-up of local area network within the boat, which I have done before. I wonder though of you could go into more detail about the system you use for internet connection? As noted within the thread, all of the smart things are great, especially when off the boat, but continued internet service is required. Thanks!
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:04 PM   #69
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Additional challenge is having a reliable internet connection for a smart device. Our marina internet stinks.
Bingo, we have a winner.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:18 PM   #70
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I want, no I need a highly reliable alarm and monitoring system for my boat so that when Iím away I know that all is well.

What I also wanted was something off the shelf so that I so not have to do code level programming.

Any functionality while at sea is far secondary. I am on the boat and do not need automation, or alarming or monitoring, although those functions are handy, they are far from necessary.

I got everything I wanted in a home based security and automation system. I chose smartthings, but there are other players. I just liked smartthings because it was well...Easy.

Yes it relies on a always on internet connection, but so does every commercial alarm system. It cannot inform you of things without a communications path.

We can make this idea of alarm monitoring really complex, to the point where it takes not just an engineer, but a speciality automation engineer to deploy. Or we can make it easy. At this stage in life Iíll take easy.
I think SmartThings is great. I use it at home for many things, and have used it on the boat. It is very easy to setup and use the basics, and has lot of integrations. It can also be mind-numbingly difficult to get those integrations to work reliably. Most of them work most of the time, but compared to a locally-hosted system, there's no contest.

SmartThings is not a commercial alarm system. It has no redundancies, uses non marine quality components, and is meant as an IoT control system for home.

There are a lot of other commercial alarm systems that have better features. There are also commercial marine systems that don't require a dedicated engineer (Siren, Boat Command, Blue Guard) to install and use and have more redundancies and features than SmartThings.

All of these systems fail at some point, or have bugs or issues, etc. After having used a bunch of these systems for the last 5 years (I have 8 running on the boat right now) I would prefer a locally controlled marine-grade and managed system for critical monitoring for when I'm away from the boat. They fail less, stand up to the marine environment, and seem to overall work more reliably.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:32 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Lollygag1:
Additional challenge is having a reliable internet connection for a smart device. Our marina internet stinks.
Bingo, we have a winner.

Wifi is not reliable enough to provide iron proof security unless you own the dish connected to a satellite.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:36 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Lollygag1:
Additional challenge is having a reliable internet connection for a smart device. Our marina internet stinks.
Bingo, we have a winner.

Wifi is not reliable enough to provide iron proof security unless you own the dish connected to a satellite.
I agree that relying on marina or other WiFi for monitoring is fraught with problems.

I also don't think a satellite connection is enough because it is a single point of failure / single vendor.

My perfect system would be:

On board WiFi router with connection to available WiFi networks (if available) dual LTE/cellular connections and a connection to a satellite internet source

Dual monitoring devices/systems each with a WiFi connection to the above and their own LTE radios as well, both from different vendors

That covers the WiFi, cellular and satellite failing. It also covers in-device LTE vs. WiFi. The other thing that it covers is a single vendor or solution failing to notify you because they have issues with their service, or their device has a bug.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:09 PM   #73
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I think SmartThings is great. I use it at home for many things, and have used it on the boat. It is very easy to setup and use the basics, and has lot of integrations. It can also be mind-numbingly difficult to get those integrations to work reliably. Most of them work most of the time, but compared to a locally-hosted system, there's no contest.

SmartThings is not a commercial alarm system. It has no redundancies, uses non marine quality components, and is meant as an IoT control system for home.

There are a lot of other commercial alarm systems that have better features. There are also commercial marine systems that don't require a dedicated engineer (Siren, Boat Command, Blue Guard) to install and use and have more redundancies and features than SmartThings.

All of these systems fail at some point, or have bugs or issues, etc. After having used a bunch of these systems for the last 5 years (I have 8 running on the boat right now) I would prefer a locally controlled marine-grade and managed system for critical monitoring for when I'm away from the boat. They fail less, stand up to the marine environment, and seem to overall work more reliably.
Well, I guess we differ. I looked at the available “marine” systems and decided that I could use a home automation/security system and get better results.

I started with Sensaphone, then Iris, and now I’m settled in with and happy with Samsungs Smartthings hub.

Maybe this is not a “security” system, but nobody told the many manufacturers producing hundreds of compatible security related devices such as window/door contact alarms, motion sensors, glass break sensors, fire and co sensors, etc...

As far as “marine grade” sorry but I flat do not agree. There is no difference between my enclosed boat and a home or business near the coast. Yes open boats are a different animal but at least for me, that’s not my target.

The results speak for them selves. Today, and for over a year now with this system I have a highly reliable alarm and monitoring system, that meets my needs. Frankly I cannot think of a function that I do not have, simply because I thought about the parameters that need monitoring and found devices to perform that function.

You can and it sounds like you have or are working on a solution to fit your needs, and I appreciate that, but please do not tell this professional SCADA and network engineer that what I have deployed is sub standard for the application of remote monitoring because it is not. Yes I could have made it complex but I saw no need to reinvent the wheel.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:20 PM   #74
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ta

Question or request for ksandsers:

Thanks for your post. I totally understand the set-up of local area network within the boat, which I have done before. I wonder though of you could go into more detail about the system you use for internet connection? As noted within the thread, all of the smart things are great, especially when off the boat, but continued internet service is required. Thanks!
I use a Cradlepoint AER1600 router. This router has redundant cellular modems, plus the ability to use WIFI, or a wired ethernet connection as the internet connection.

You can configure all these connections in a priority scheme so that you “prefer” the lowest cost connection and switch to the other connection(s) if the more preferred connection fails.

You can set timeouts for the switching, and the switching back in case a more prefered connection becomes available after failing.

This is all configured using a menu driven interface that is easy to understand for the lay person.

www.cradlepoint.com

There is even a subscription service that you can buy that allows remote management of the router. Basically if it can find a workable internet connection you can remotly access it through the service.

This same equipment is being deployed in emergency vehicles daily to provide mission critical communications.

What I did was simply buy a data plan using two cellular carriers that do not roam to each other. That way i get the highest probability of having a cellular connection.

I also have a satellite backup, but that is by any measure expensive. Probably more expensive than most recreational boaters would want to cost justify. The satellite system is through KVH.com
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:46 AM   #75
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I've had really smart boats in my life, all my life. Got three right now!

They are so damn smart... They make me think of them very, very often. Work on them whenever needed. Have others work on them whenever necessary. Have my wife ask me of the boats are ready for the "season[s]". Get me to pay dockage/storage fees. Often enter my dreams wherever I am. Have me purchase [and install] new equipment. Get me to wash/shine them. Make me/we/us schedule other items in life so those "other" items do NOT interfere with my/our seasonal boat time!

And, quite importantly... consistently convince me to punch-up, read and post on Trawler Forum!!

Yes: I've had Really Smart boats in my life all my life!

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Old 01-19-2020, 08:13 AM   #76
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My lesson learned in having had a smart home with security monitoring and multiple cameras for 3 years... all while living 8000 miles away... I will not use wifi cameras and thermostats and other devices. Must be hard wired. Too many little troubles over the years and very disconcerting when you won't be back at your home/boat/RV for another 6 months to fix the little bugs or failed component.

Perhaps not so important if your boat is only a few hours drive away, but if you're leaving it at a marina in Seattle while you return home to Virginia, then dependability is important.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:51 PM   #77
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We have the Siren Marine system on our boat and it has been bullet proof. It has its own cellular modem and is completely self sufficient.

We monitor every engine, bilge, battery, and sensor on the boat. Alerting is customizable. We also get an insurance discount because its effectively low jack, so it pays for itself.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:08 PM   #78
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This morning it’s cold in Seward Alaska. I am nowhere near the boat, but I am happy in the knowledge that all is well.

There are lots of different vendors out there that supply equipment, and they all seem to work pretty darn well! Lots of different methods, and they are seem to work pretty darn well!

I applaud anyone that has taken the effort to insure that all is well in their boat while they are away, be that a human checking on a regular basis, or a machine keeping track, or both.

Here is a live screen shot from my IPAD.
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:06 PM   #79
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Negative on the 100 year comment. A couple of large private ventures are now launching thousands of LEO sats.

Up here in our fjords, inlets, sounds, bays and what have you, what's important is satellite placement not numbers of sats available. The satellites will be placed to best reach the majority of the population. I speak in metaphor when I say that SiriusXM radio is geared for the southern part of the states. I'm curious to hear from you Alaskans, can you even get SiriusXM in your parts? I can where I live on Vancouver Island but it cuts out all the time.

I have said this before, I liken it to downtown New York amongst the high rises, unless the satellite is directly above, whatever gizmo is relying on a satellite signal probably will have difficulty receiving the signal, the signal will have a hard time punching through. I know XM radio doesn't have that many satellites but it illustrates the problem.

My experience with home alarms was as follows. In 2016 we did a complete reno on our current home, back to studs, everything torn out and replaced type reno. I asked my son the cop (in the greater Victoria area) whether to install an alarm system, he said not to bother, his experience was they weren't that effective. He recommended cameras: "Dad, with cameras they'll successfully steal your stuff. But the cops know pretty much all small time criminal types and when they look at the picture, they'll say - 'Hey, that's Bob.' And then go pick Bob up."
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:39 PM   #80
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Smart boat

Yes you can get a system for $599 that will monitor your boat from anywhere. Bilges, fuel, batteries, and even location. I now can't remember the name so Google boat security systems
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