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12-19-2016, 03:06 PM
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#21
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Guru
City: gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,440
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Had the same problem with several brands. Simple numer display has never worked for me in shallow often stirred up by and aerated boat wakes, FL water. I switched to scrolling double frequency fish finder, I dont fish, and the results were much better. even if there was not enough signal return to give a numeric display the scrolling display still showed some estimate of bottom profile.
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12-19-2016, 03:09 PM
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#22
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,147
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JDCAVE.....Did you just say properly tuned, and installed echosounder?
I repeatedly said adjustments may fix the issue rather than replace as some offered.
Simple fixes first.
That seems to be the overwhelming experience I have heard from others bayview.....
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12-19-2016, 04:21 PM
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#23
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Wifey B: Testosterone overload alert. Glad they're just comparing their credentials and not the size of their......you know.
Just teasing you guys.
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12-19-2016, 05:10 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
City: Vancouver Rowing Club, Coal Harbour, Vancouver, B.C.
Vessel Name: Summer Wind 1
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 41
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 411
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I have a Raymarine suite. Two E80s networked together with radar, sounder and autopilot. I totally lost bottom in 2011 on my dsm30 and had the unit replaced on warranty. This last Sept I again totally lost bottom at the dock in Sydney. It said no data if I remember correctly. Fortunately I had a back up Lowrance sounder independently wired.
A few days later I did a hard reboot of my sounder modual by removing and replacing the undamaged fuse. It worked perfectly after that.
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12-19-2016, 08:27 PM
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#25
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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Hmmm. I'd say that was about 4' up the wall vs 3'-6". Can we have another round? Best 2 out of 3?
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
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12-19-2016, 08:56 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
City: Comox
Vessel Model: 1989 Wellington 57 motorsailer
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 281
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I have had several different brands of commercial grade echosounders on my fishing vessels over a 34 yr span and I have lost bottom on all the brands in shallow waters (under 5 fa) but only while in reverse. Obvious the loss of bottom was due to heavy aeration caused by prop wash over the transducer. Very easy to pinpoint the cause under these conditions. In the Seattle area there are several marine electronics suppliers that also have technicians on staff that service the equipment. Simple matter to bring your sounder in to one of them and have them check it out if your sounder loses bottom at random, unexplained times.
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12-19-2016, 09:28 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
City: North Port, FL
Vessel Name: Seven Tenths (sold)
Vessel Model: Mirage / Great Harbour 47
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 477
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Tim,
I had a similar problem with my Simrad NSO evo2 install. I had the P79 in-hull that would lose depth sometimes when things got shallow. I spoke with Simrad sales at the Miami show and they had a solution. The Bronze HDI 0 Degree Tilt Transducer 50/200 455/800. We did the Loop this year and were in many shallow anchorages. The new transducer never lost the bottom, we got down to less than 6 inches below the hull and the system showed it the whole way.
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12-19-2016, 10:16 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
City: St. Pete
Vessel Name: Becca
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 44
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 258
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I concur. I have a new Simrad with their transducer and we never loose the bottom.
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12-19-2016, 11:28 PM
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#29
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Newbie
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Elizabeth Jane
Vessel Model: Helmsman Trawler 37 Sedan
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4
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Great tips. Thanks everyone. A couple follow ups incorporating the points above:
Simrad tech support says there is no software update for the BSM-1 (just the BSM-2 and BSM-3). They did, however, ask me some follow up questions so they seem genuinely interested in helping. Wasn't expecting that. I'll keep this thread posted with their guidance.
I operated at both 50kHz and 200kHz and both were unreliable. I'm not certain if I was in dual mode, but I did adjust the gain and there weren't any relevant filter options.
I have no other fishfinders/sounders to cause interference but my current experience is motivating me to install a backup...
I too have experienced the lost signal when <5' away from running aground. Fortunately this isn't the experience I'm having. The depth I'm failing in is <100', usually <50'
The prop wash in reverse is a super interesting theory and one that is blessedly easy to test. I'll give it a try.
At the risk of stoking the spirited debate above, I suspect that thermal differences, salinity or some other kind of stratification is getting picked up, but it may not be relevant to my zero reading problem. I have seen the depth reading briefly bounce to 10' while not moving in 25' of water (anchored and stern tied). It freaked me out so I walked the perimeter with a lead line to confirm 25'. While it bounced around, I could see the bottom plot in the sounder view of my MFD jump up and back down again. Playing around with gain and other settings had no effect to eliminate the bounce. I had a couple similar experiences while underway in 1,500' of water. The readings jumped up to 10' feet for many minutes before finding bottom or reading nothing (expected in the extreme depths at the time).
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12-20-2016, 08:18 AM
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#30
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,147
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The water column can be stratified and it is often suggested that in addition to thermocline and salinity and currents, different amounts of debris tend to stratify in some of those other layers which presumably adds to the jumping around of readings.
Some models do better than others even within a manufacturers line of sounders, some just seem to be "bottom losers" more than others.
On the Furuno 1850 on the Sea Tow boat I ran for 13 years, by the end, the internal battery was dying and it became extrodinarily bad at keeping bottom. The winter after I quit full time, they replaced the battery, and during the few part time tows I did last summer, it seemed MUCH better.
As many complaints as many boat owners have about the same problem, with reports that they have tried every troubleshooting trick, and still have the problem..... I don't think there is one clear cut answer to solve anyones sounder issue.
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12-20-2016, 12:35 PM
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#31
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Guru
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaumu
The depth I'm failing in is <100', usually <50'...
I have seen the depth reading briefly bounce to 10' while not moving in 25' of water (anchored and stern tied). It freaked me out so I walked the perimeter with a lead line to confirm 25'. While it bounced around, I could see the bottom plot in the sounder view of my MFD jump up and back down again. Playing around with gain and other settings had no effect to eliminate the bounce. I had a couple similar experiences while underway in 1,500' of water. The readings jumped up to 10' feet for many minutes before finding bottom or reading nothing (expected in the extreme depths at the time).
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I suspect some sort of "mid water scattering layer" is responsible, either fish, or jellyfish. Zooplankton and sometimes intense layer of dead phytoplankton can also be responsible. Sorry, I should have thought about this earlier. Low powered units sometimes have trouble penetrating a dense layer and still seeing bottom. If the unit is on automatic, it is cycling between low frequency and high frequency. The unit detects a shallow layer and switches to the 200 KHz range and sets the range scale on the display to a shallower setting.
We have encountered jellyfish aggregations in Desolation Sound that are so dense that you worry about them clogging raw water intakes. A dense school of juvenile herring may also be encountered in anchorages.
Jim
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12-20-2016, 12:36 PM
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#32
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Guru
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,877
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Also, as discussed by PSNEELD....
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12-20-2016, 12:44 PM
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#33
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Guru
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,877
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I was unable to edit the above post to add: try fixing the depth setting to a shallower range and associated frequency when entering an anchorage. That might fix your problem.
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12-20-2016, 03:05 PM
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#34
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,092
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I don't think you should be losing depth in say 10-100' of water. This is where your depth sounder should shine. If you are backing down, then yes, you will lose bottom. And somewhere between 600' and 1600', depending on how powerful your sounder is, you will lose bottom because it's too deep. My lower powered (100W), dedicated depth sounder loses the bottom around 800', and the more powerful (600W) fish finder loses it around 1500-1600'. A 1kw or 3kw sounder will hold bottom even deeper.
So if you are losing bottom and you are not backing down, then I think you do have an issue.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
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12-20-2016, 05:02 PM
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#35
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TF Site Team
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,663
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The sounder that I use on my dinghy loses the bottom frequently.
The #1 cause is likely a thermocline.
The #2 cause is going too fast, and causing turbulence at the part of the deep V in which the transducer is located.
When it occurs, the reading reverts to a few feet, instead of the 100 to 500 that I would expect, given my knowledge of what the bottom really is.
When I need the reading, eg when I am trying to find the spot to set my prawn traps, I simply revert to the trace function and find the bottom, usually exactly where I expect to find it.
__________________
Keith
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12-20-2016, 05:18 PM
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#36
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,681
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Our Lowrance (Simrad) on the fly bridge, where I fish from, likes the deep water but we do loose shallow depths occasionally. It's 250 watts?
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12-20-2016, 08:24 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
City: Tasmania
Vessel Model: Old Town Loon
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M
Our Lowrance (Simrad) on the fly bridge, where I fish from, likes the deep water but we do loose shallow depths occasionally. It's 250 watts?
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Nice pictures Larry. I don't know what it is but I like seeing interesting pictures on depth sounders. We use to have a HDS5 they are a good little unit. What transducer are you using there's?
Brett
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12-21-2016, 07:47 AM
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#38
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetstream
Nice pictures Larry. I don't know what it is but I like seeing interesting pictures on depth sounders. We use to have a HDS5 they are a good little unit. What transducer are you using there's?
Brett
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We were fishing canyons of the coast of Costa Rica for bill fish. The transducer is an Airmar B744V traducer.
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12-21-2016, 06:17 PM
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#39
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Guru
City: Kilmarnock VA
Vessel Name: Wandering Star
Vessel Model: PSN40
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,395
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Furuno USA Community • View topic - Depth Reading Pay close attention to post #2 from this Furuno forum. I realize that the OP has a 2kw transducer & Chaumu has a 650w transducer but the SIMPLE fact is that a low power unit is the way to go if you want consistently good readings in shallow depths.
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12-21-2016, 07:14 PM
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#40
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Newbie
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Elizabeth Jane
Vessel Model: Helmsman Trawler 37 Sedan
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 4
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After further research and conversations, I'm going to install a DS800 as a secondary depth finder:
DST800 D/S/T, Plastic, 235KHz | Simrad Marine Electronics
http://www.airmar.com/uploads/brochures/dst800.pdf
It's low powered so should work more reliably in shallow depths and it's N2K connected so I don't need to add another screen at the helm. My MFD (NSE12) should prefer the DS800 if my BSM-1 depth reading goes away. And it operates on a different frequency so it shouldn't interfere with the signal from my current transducer (i'm told).
I need a redundant depth source regardless of my bsm flakiness so I don't have too much angst about this unless it doesn't work (plus don't like a new hole below the waterline). Troubleshooting an unreproducable problem at the the dock with the current setup wasn't yielding anything so we'll see how cruising season goes with both readings.
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