Second 30 amp service

[Propnut]

I’ve got one 30 amp service and by using power management, it’s worked fine until I added a 9000 btu AC in the forward stateroom. I’m cool, but the two AC’s are all I can run on the 30 amp service. I want to install a second 30 amp service with breakers to run the AC’s, but want the ability to be able to run both services on one 30 amp cord at times when I don’t need both AC’. I also have a 8 kw generator. Anyone have a setup like this, or have other suggestions? Two 30’s seems like a simpler and more cost effective way of accomplishing this to me, but I’m open to ideas.

 

[psneeld]

If a liveaboard or plan to someday....I would go straight to a 50A 125/250V service. Cheaper than adding a 30A then upgrading later because being a liveaboard can suck up electricity fast.

With a 50A 125/250....you have just about as much available as you need on a 41 foot boat.

Sure, add a 30A and put both Air Cond on it like many do, or split them if a better balance is desired. Adding a second 30A and just running 2 ACs on it is pretty inexpensive. A 50A upgrade isnt.

 

[tiltrider1]

I had a similar set up on a different boat for heat rather than AC. I had two panels with 30a main breaker for each. The second panel had a L1 or L2 switch. This way if I only had one 30 amp outlet at the dock I could get some heat. If two 30a outlets were available I could get a lot more heat by switching from L1 which is shared with panel 1 to L2 which was dedicated to the second panel.

This is not something an armature should attempt to wire on their own.

 

[O C Diver]

While I second the notion of switching to 50 amp service, if you choose to put in a second 30 amp service, why not just join them with a Y cord at the inlets coming into the boat.

Ted

 

[Bacchus]

My Mainship has 2 - 30A 125V inlets.
MS did a nice job of setting up the AC panel for flexibility.
Each cord normally feeds a separate side of the panel with it's own 30A main breaker
By using a "transfer" Sw I can combine both sides of the panel and supply power via cord 1. I need to manage loads to not overload the 30A inlet main.
I can also run both sides of the panel from the Gen by activating a second transfer SW that engages the gen and disconnects the shore inlets.
I dont have a pic but can take one if it would help.

 

[DrissZougari]

As much as I hate the size of the 50A cable, I believe it will be your best option and the easiest upgrade.

 

[Comodave]

My Mainship has 2 - 30A 125V inlets.
MS did a nice job of setting up the AC panel for flexibility.
Each cord normally feeds a separate side of the panel with it's own 30A main breaker
By using a "transfer" Sw I can combine both sides of the panel and supply power via cord 1. I need to manage loads to not overload the 30A inlet main.
I can also run both sides of the panel from the Gen by activating a second transfer SW that engages the gen and disconnects the shore inlets.
I dont have a pic but can take one if it would help.

I replaced the main electrical panel on our current boat and this is how mine works now. But it was a large job and the new panel cost north of $1000.

 

[Swfla]

Hi Propnut. I understand your thinking. Bacchus's Mainship setup sounds like what you want. But COMOdave's $1000 job is probably more money than you might like to invest and possibly much less work for your situation. So, you know it's possible. Now just talk to a mechanic about what would take to make it work for your boat. I love how people have such wide experience here and step right up.

 

[Comodave]

The $1000 was just the cost for the panel, list price was almost double that. I did all the work so there was no labor cost.

 

[Swfla]

Wow, I'd keep the job as straightforward as possible. I could see going all out if I lived on the boat, was planning on keeping it for many more years. Even then I'd ask myself how often I'd use the feature and if it would be straightforward so anyone would know what breakers to throw if I wasn't on board. (over customized). Most midsize boats have a second 30 amp inlet when there's a dual ac system. I suppose it's cheaper to manufacture that way. Plus, not all marinas have 240v. You could use the neighboring box for a second 30 amp supply. Felt I had to mention the other side of the equation of available dock power.

 

[catalinajack]

If you purchase a Smartplug pre-made 50-amp cordset you will be amazed at how well and easy it is to handle and coil up even in cold weather.

As much as I hate the size of the 50A cable, I believe it will be your best option and the easiest upgrade.

 

[syjos]

I have the ability to plug into two 30 amp shore inlets on Sandpiper.

There are two separate Blue Seas panels that can each receive separate 30 amp shore power for a total of 60 amps. Or both panels powered by one shore cord. Or panel 1 on shore power and panel 2 on generator or inverter.

A Blue Seas 8032 source selector is installed to combine the two panels or select another source. They retail for about $170. A SS shore inlet is $100 and a second shore cord $100. A three circuit 110 volt panel is around $130. Total DIY cost is around $550 with wire and misc. hardware.

We are plugged into one shore cord 99% of the time. We plug into two shore plugs 3 to 4 times during the winter to run electric heat. We don't cruise in the winter but take the boat to Des Moines on several occasions to attend events and visit friends.

50 amp plugs are not available at many marinas in the PNW. The OP's choice depends on 50 amp shore availability in his cruising area.

 

[Swfla]

A good example of part of the cost for Propnut. He still would need to add a second panel with breakers to have the system work. Comodave's example of cost for a second panel (no labor) combined with yours, demonstrates that even if Propnut were to do this himself, The cost of materials would likely be close to $1500. Hopefully, this gives Propnut a good idea of material costs when and if he decides to get a pro quote. What do you think Dave? Is this materials cost estimate what you were expecting? Maybe someone knows the average rate for a marine electrical/mechanic and hours to cut two holes and redo the wiring. One thru cabin exterior wall and one for the second breaker panel with room for source selector as well. My guess is 8 hours give or take at $130/hr (low end guesstimate). $1040 plus $1500 materials = $2600. I'd round that up to $3000 and be happily surprised if quote was less. I don't know Dave's budget or feelings about having this convenience. Spread out over ten years, it's pocket change. It also could include a once over the breakers and connections by a pro eye to catch any potential issues lying around the corner. Assuming he doesn't have any other maintenance issues coming up.

 

[Scottwb96]

Not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but you could also just bump to a 50/125. Just need to change core, plug and inside wiring from plug to panel, fairly easy...

 

[timb]

this is something i would use .you could use the third breaker for engine room heat or battery charger.
https://www.jamestowndistributors.c...MI0ue7gfby6gIV-AiICR3F0gUTEAQYAiABEgJgLfD_BwE

just use a y split for shore power.

my generator transfer has enough contacts for both services the generator is connected to both line connections.

 

[kchace]

I’ve got one 30 amp service and by using power management, it’s worked fine until I added a 9000 btu AC in the forward stateroom. I’m cool, but the two AC’s are all I can run on the 30 amp service. I want to install a second 30 amp service with breakers to run the AC’s, but want the ability to be able to run both services on one 30 amp cord at times when I don’t need both AC’. I also have a 8 kw generator. Anyone have a setup like this, or have other suggestions? Two 30’s seems like a simpler and more cost effective way of accomplishing this to me, but I’m open to ideas.

My boat is set up exactly the way you are contemplating and it works well, up to a point. I have 2 separate 30a inputs, one goes to a panel only for the ACs and the other feeds a panel for everything else. I have a single 30a cord with a Y at the boat end. The problem is, 30 amps is not sufficient to run everything at once - not even close. I can run 2 of my 3 ACs IF I don’t have much else Running. But my boat can draw as much as 48amps AC. (My 8kw generator has no problem supporting that load) So if you want to put in a dual AC meter and monitor your usage, it’s certainly doable.

I’m seriously considering changing over to a 50A/125v feed.

Ken

 

[syjos]

A good example of part of the cost for Propnut. He still would need to add a second panel with breakers to have the system work. Comodave's example of cost for a second panel (no labor) combined with yours, demonstrates that even if Propnut were to do this himself, The cost of materials would likely be close to $1500. Hopefully, this gives Propnut a good idea of material costs when and if he decides to get a pro quote. What do you think Dave? Is this materials cost estimate what you were expecting? Maybe someone knows the average rate for a marine electrical/mechanic and hours to cut two holes and redo the wiring. One thru cabin exterior wall and one for the second breaker panel with room for source selector as well. My guess is 8 hours give or take at $130/hr (low end guesstimate). $1040 plus $1500 materials = $2600. I'd round that up to $3000 and be happily surprised if quote was less. I don't know Dave's budget or feelings about having this convenience. Spread out over ten years, it's pocket change. It also could include a once over the breakers and connections by a pro eye to catch any potential issues lying around the corner. Assuming he doesn't have any other maintenance issues coming up.

My guesstimate included a second 3 circuit panel. Total cost of materials around $550 for DIY.

I would gladly do the simple install for $2600 if I was not retired. But my conscience would prevent me from charging that much. Unless the boat had poor access to the areas for the panel and inlet install, 4 hours would be the average time to do this. I probably would bid around $1400 to $1700 parts and labor, depending on accessibility.

The cost would go up if OP wanted more circuits on the second panel to balance the load on the two panels.

 

[Swfla]

Good to hear that 4 hours would do it. Is $130/hr for pro labor about right in your opinion? I based this on FL rates from a few years ago. My time frame of 8 hours was just a wild guess. Even more reason to get a couple of pro estimates. OP hasn't chimed in. But yesterday was when he started the thread. Probably is still at work right now. BTW I did a quick search for a shore cord selector switch like OP described. I didn't find one. It's all shore or gen selection. His description is more complicated than just a switch. So I really feel I'm out of my depth here and not afraid to say "I don't know"

 

[syjos]

Good to hear that 4 hours would do it. Is $130/hr for pro labor about right in your opinion? I based this on FL rates from a few years ago. My time frame of 8 hours was just a wild guess. Even more reason to get a couple of pro estimates. OP hasn't chimed in. But yesterday was when he started the thread. Probably is still at work right now. BTW I did a quick search for a shore cord selector switch like OP described. I didn't find one. It's all shore or gen selection. His description is more complicated than just a switch. So I really feel I'm out of my depth here and not afraid to say "I don't know"

The Blue Seas selectors have interchangeable labels. If the desired source label does not come with the selector, additional label assortments, individual labels and custom labels are available from Blue Seas.

The 4 hours is a guesstimate without seeing the actual access on the boat.

I think an independent electrician would charge around $85 to $100 per hour. A company sending out an electrician will charge more than $100 an hour.

The project is not that complicated or difficult for the average DIY'er accustomed to working with AC.

 

[Swfla]

That all sounds good. Hope it's really that simple and affordable. The way the OP described how he wanted it, sounded much more complicated to me. Hope he can have things the way he wants them.