Replacing 8.1 cu ft Norcold Refrigerator

[psneeld]

any thoughts on bottom freezer efficiency?

 

[Pineapple Girl]

any thoughts on bottom freezer efficiency?

I found some info online

"Units with a top-mounted freezer consume 10 percent to 25 percent less energy than models with bottom- or side-mounted freezers, according to the U.S. Department of Energy."

This is in reference to 110 home appliances but seems the same would apply to 12 v? I'd think a modern bottom freezer would do better than my old not cold though. This same article said a fridge can account for up to 1/6 of a home'so energy use. I'd think that fraction would be even higher on a boat. No washing machine (perhaps), for example.

 

[Baker]

I found some info online

"Units with a top-mounted freezer consume 10 percent to 25 percent less energy than models with bottom- or side-mounted freezers, according to the U.S. Department of Energy."

This is in reference to 110 home appliances but seems the same would apply to 12 v? I'd think a modern bottom freezer would do better than my old not cold though. This same article said a fridge can account for up to 1/6 of a home'so energy use. I'd think that fraction would be even higher on a boat. No washing machine (perhaps), for example.

Makes perfect sense. The cooling elements in my fridge/freezer are in the freezer portion of the unit. And since heat rises and cold air sinks, one would think that a freezer on top would be the more efficient configuration???

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
I agree that the bottom freezer configuration is most probably less efficient for the above mentioned reasons. I suspect manufacturers went to the bottom freezer style for more of a consumer convenience since one tends to open the "fridge" section of the appliance much more frequently than the "frozen" section, unless one has an ice cream fetish, so bending down is minimized.

 

[FF]

If the bottom freezer has a door , it probably sucks as storage and recovery are not easy.

The home units with a DRAWER are fantastic as they probably hold 2x the food as the stuff it behind a door model.

 

[psneeld]

That's what I was guessing...I always find it interesting when posters talk about efficiency and yet buy things that seem to be less efficient from an engineering standpoint.


If a desired charachteristic is there that outweighs efficiency then by all means go for it.


If it truly is up to 15% less efficient...in my mind, convenience wouldn't be enough to outweigh keeping the freezer on top so now the Vitrifrigo is the leading ouster of another Norcold...I'll have to see if I can see/feel the differences in door seal and hardware everyone is mentioning.


They are about $300 different in price...I can live with that, another $600-$1000 for a fridge that is already $800 too much (over household versions) seems hard to justify for a cheap boat.

 

[O C Diver]

If it truly is up to 15% less efficient...in my mind, convenience wouldn't be enough to outweigh keeping the freezer on top so now the Vitrifrigo is the leading ouster of another Norcold...I'll have to see if I can see/feel the differences in door seal and hardware everyone is mentioning.

Think it's very easy to get misled by that statistic. My nevercold has the freezer on the top but likely is much more of a power hog because of the old style compressor. Likewise, the Nova Kool could have better insulation than the Vitrifrigo and end up using less power even though having the freezer on top is a more power efficient design.

This stuff drives me nuts because there should be a simple test required to sell these products in the USA. Load the fridge with 30 half liter water bottles. Put 3 half gallon boxes of ice cream in the freezer. Have it in a temperature controlled room. Adjust the refrigerator till it maintains 35 degrees with a room temperature of 75 degrees. Wait 24 hours and then measure power consumed over the next 24 hours. Repeat the process for room temperature of 85 and 95 degrees.

Sundanzer used to have this graph on their website for there different models of refrigerators and freezers. Seems a pretty simple concept.



Ted

 

[Baker]

This stuff drives me nuts because there should be a simple test required to sell these products in the USA. Load the fridge with 30 half liter water bottles. Put 3 half gallon boxes of ice cream in the freezer. Have it in a temperature controlled room. Adjust the refrigerator till it maintains 35 degrees with a room temperature of 75 degrees. Wait 24 hours and then measure power consumed over the next 24 hours. Repeat the process for room temperature of 85 and 95 degrees.

Ted

Your test is a bit flawed....maybe....depending on what you were getting at. A fridge full of water is easier to keep cool(less energy demand) than an empty fridge. SO an empty fridge would be a more demanding test is all I am saying.

 

[O C Diver]

Your test is a bit flawed....maybe....depending on what you were getting at. A fridge full of water is easier to keep cool(less energy demand) than an empty fridge. SO an empty fridge would be a more demanding test is all I am saying.

It's about having a standard test. Don't think it really makes a difference as it's a test of insulation and compressor efficiency.

Besides, I don't usually keep an empty fridge cold.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

Problem with many comparison tests just recently done, they could already be out of date.


Even when presented with recent info, some still believe Norcolds have something other than Danfoss compressors. Even when repair shops are posting the change....but ...it is a relatively new change.


Sure efficiency depends on a lot of things...that's why I kept asking if anyone had info that could dispute what to me seems like a pretty significant efficiency handicap. That's just by having a bottom freezer...basic thermodynamics.


Seems like they all have gone with poly insulation over stuffed glass...so for me...my guess is they are getting closer with same design characteristics, same compressors....so not like a lot of things, quality of build and general construction might be the tipping points.

 

[Baker]

It's about having a standard test. Don't think it really makes a difference as it's a test of insulation and compressor efficiency.


Ted

Ok...that's what I was thinking....just checking!!!....

 

[O C Diver]

Seems like they all have gone with poly insulation over stuffed glass...so for me...my guess is they are getting closer with same design characteristics, same compressors....so not like a lot of things, quality of build and general construction might be the tipping points.

I hear you, but things like size and placement of the condenser coil, quality of the door seal and thickness of the poly insulation are still significant factors.

Besides, if a manufacturer's unit does poorly in a standardized test, maybe that gets them off their a$$ to improve their unit.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

I hear you, but things like size and placement of the condenser coil, quality of the door seal and thickness of the poly insulation are still significant factors.

Besides, if a manufacturer's unit does poorly in a standardized test, maybe that gets them off their a$$ to improve their unit.

Ted

true...maybe someone with a really big boat can do side by side tests as informative as our new video anchoring tests....

 

[O C Diver]

true...maybe someone with a really big boat can do side by side tests as informative as our new video anchoring tests....

Sounds like a job for BandB.

Ted

 

[ianonhercules]

Nobody has mentioned Seafreeze. They are located in Bellingham Washington. They have a unit the same dimensions as a Norcold double door. Their compressor is 12 Volt(Possibly Danfoss?) that is located remotely, thus not subtracting space from the fridge. The freezer is on top and is larger than the one on Norcold. I believe it may be 9 cu. ft. combined. Compressor is pretty quiet with just the whine of the fan. Biggest drawback is it is pricier than the Norcold. Not sure how it compares to other makes. I know the Norcold used to shake the boat and disturbed my sleep!!
Their website is seafreezeinc.com


Ian
Carver 350 Voyager
Ex Hercules

 

[FF]

One could use the old standby test for a refrigerator box.

Simply place a big block of ice in the unit

After 24 hours the box will be cold , so weigh the ice.

Wait 24 or 48 hours and weigh the ice again.

The number of pounds of ice melted times 144 + the btu used in keeping the box cold.

Your fridge gear is rated in BTU per hour , and the amps draw will tell if the unit will kill the batts too quickly.

 

[O C Diver]

Nobody has mentioned Seafreeze. They are located in Bellingham Washington. They have a unit the same dimensions as a Norcold double door. Their compressor is 12 Volt(Possibly Danfoss?) that is located remotely, thus not subtracting space from the fridge. The freezer is on top and is larger than the one on Norcold. I believe it may be 9 cu. ft. combined. Compressor is pretty quiet with just the whine of the fan. Biggest drawback is it is pricier than the Norcold. Not sure how it compares to other makes. I know the Norcold used to shake the boat and disturbed my sleep!!
Their website is seafreezeinc.com


Ian
Carver 350 Voyager
Ex Hercules

Nice looking units. They do use Danfoss compressors. They think a lot of their units. $3,000+ for the Nevercold replacement 8 cuft. model.

Ted

 

[FF]

One could use the old standby test for a refrigerator box.

Simply place a big block of ice in the unit

After 24 hours the box will be cold , so weigh the ice.

Wait 24 or 48 hours and weigh the ice again.

The number of pounds of ice melted in 24 hours times 144 + the btu used in keeping the box cold.

Your fridge gear is rated in BTU per hour , and the amps draw will tell if the unit will kill the batts too quickly.