Relocating Water Heater - Wire Extension
- Thread starter catalinajack
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DrissZougari
Senior Member
okay, gauge 10 wire will have less resistance than gauge 14 wire. so yes, you can use gauge 10 wire for the extras wire length and loose the switch as far as I am concerned. also please make sure that your splice the wire in a box for safety.
OP
OP
catalinajack
Guru
I, too. Existing wire to water heater is 12AWG.
I'm glad the manufacturer of my boat didn't skimp and ran 12/3 to my Raritan water heater with the 1250 watt element.
Ted
OP
OP
catalinajack
Guru
Help me to understand why I should put the splice in a box if I were to use a glue-impregnated heat shrink butt splice which I could back up with heat shrink tubing. Just trying to learn. I try to do everything correctly. I could run a new wire back to the panel but that would be a LOT of work. Adding a box would not be difficult. Also, I could enclose the splice in an existing raceway. Would this be acceptable rather than a box?
O C Diver
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I would imagine it is a standard for protecting 120 VAC wiring. They may view failure of the conductor cover as a higher potential problem than DC wiring. Clearly the outer cover adds a layer of protection on top of the individual conductor cover.
Can't you use the switch box as the location for the splice and just put a blank cover plate in place of the switch?
Ted
psneeld
Guru
Just skimmed ABYC on electrical...not sure a box is required.
May want to hold out till someone with full and current ABYC suggestions can point it out more clearly.
OP
OP
catalinajack
Guru
Standing by. I get why, in dirt homes, a wire-nutted connection with solid wire must be in a box.
OP
OP
catalinajack
Guru
In my working life I had extensive experience interpreting complex Federal law. A well-written law or regulation that highlights a term, in this case an "enclosure", that law or regulation clearly defines what that term means. So, the question that begs is what meets the ABYC concept of an enclosure? If an enclosure is not clearly defined (ambiguous), then the standard is incomplete. Any standard that leaves to the reader some level of interpretation is not good. For example, in my mind, if the butt splice is enclosed in a raceway, it is enclosed. To others, it may mean a junction box.
@catalinajack
The next para. is:
11.14.4.3.2 Nonmetallic outlet boxes, flush device boxes, and covers shall meet the requirements of UL 514C, Nonmetallic Outlet Boxes, Flush Device Boxes, and Covers.
Not as clear as Federal law but pretty clear that loom, raceways, etc. are not included in the concept of "enclosures".
As I said, it is a hard standard to live up to.
The next para. is:
11.14.4.3.2 Nonmetallic outlet boxes, flush device boxes, and covers shall meet the requirements of UL 514C, Nonmetallic Outlet Boxes, Flush Device Boxes, and Covers.
Not as clear as Federal law but pretty clear that loom, raceways, etc. are not included in the concept of "enclosures".
As I said, it is a hard standard to live up to.
Agree. Even if you think it's vague, your insurance co may not. If you argue that a raceway is not specifically excluded, then the attys would simply point to the plain meaning of electrical enclosure.
NEMA states "An electrical enclosure is a cabinet or box that protects electrical or electronic equipment and prevents electrical shock"
As others have mentioned, solution is to cover the switchbox, or add a junction box. Why try to find a potential loophole in standards that an insurance might disagree with. You will spend a lot of money trying to win an argument with an insurance co.
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catalinajack
Guru
Thank you for the clarification.
OP
OP
catalinajack
Guru
Not trying to find a loophole. I do want to comply with standard and now I know for certain what it is. Thank you to all who have contributed. I will be using an acceptable enclosure.
OP
OP
catalinajack
Guru
Here is something that makes me wonder about this ABYC recommendation. Submersible well pumps. The service wire is butt spliced with glue-impregnated heat shrink very near to the pump at the bottom of a well, 100 to 400 feet below the ground IN THE WATER. Yet, according to the ABYC, all AC butt-spliced connections must be in an enclosure. Does anyone see the inconsistency I see? Still, cuz it is easy for me to do, I will be relocating the switch box to a more convenient out-of-the-way location and wiring my heater that way. But, sometimes some ABYC recommendations make no sense, to me at least.
Want another to ruminate over? How about the recommendation that Racor filter housings require a metal bowl at the bottom ostensibly as a heat shield for the clear plastic bowl? Yet, at least 50% of that bowl is still exposed. That pseudo heat shield would maybe be useful for a campfire built directly below the housing but little else. Engine room fires are general conflagrations that would melt the plastic bowl, heat shield or no heat shield but ABYC in its wisdom recommends the metal bowl. Makes no sense to me and not to mention the fact that any fire hot enough to melt the bowl would already be fully involved with the boat long since doomed. Perhaps I am wrong in my thinking but I don't think so. Sorry guys for the rant.
Want another to ruminate over? How about the recommendation that Racor filter housings require a metal bowl at the bottom ostensibly as a heat shield for the clear plastic bowl? Yet, at least 50% of that bowl is still exposed. That pseudo heat shield would maybe be useful for a campfire built directly below the housing but little else. Engine room fires are general conflagrations that would melt the plastic bowl, heat shield or no heat shield but ABYC in its wisdom recommends the metal bowl. Makes no sense to me and not to mention the fact that any fire hot enough to melt the bowl would already be fully involved with the boat long since doomed. Perhaps I am wrong in my thinking but I don't think so. Sorry guys for the rant.
Comodave
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The heat shield isn’t there to stop the bowl from melting. It is there to slow down the melting of the bowl. I don’t remember how long it is supposed to stop the melting, maybe 2 minutes.
Nick F
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+1 to CharlieJ's advice. No advantage in using heavier than 14ga (for 1200 watts @ 120V).
However, in residential installations the wire size is generally chosen based on the size of breaker which supplies the circuit. For me, it makes sense to follow the same practice for marine installations.
Looking at the ABYC table you may still be looking at 14ga for a circuit fed by a 15 amp breaker - depending on the bundling derating, if applicable.
As regards the question of a splice in the run - I personally would avoid the splice. Run a new 14 ga cable all the way and do a professional job! It wont cost you more than 10ga for part of the way. Plus, 14ga is much more flexible and easier to work.
Charlie?
Regards,
Nick
However, in residential installations the wire size is generally chosen based on the size of breaker which supplies the circuit. For me, it makes sense to follow the same practice for marine installations.
Looking at the ABYC table you may still be looking at 14ga for a circuit fed by a 15 amp breaker - depending on the bundling derating, if applicable.
As regards the question of a splice in the run - I personally would avoid the splice. Run a new 14 ga cable all the way and do a professional job! It wont cost you more than 10ga for part of the way. Plus, 14ga is much more flexible and easier to work.
Charlie?
Regards,
Nick
SteveK
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Nick, you woke up an old thread which I missed. May as well add that I would repurpose the switch to another outlet in the ER. Cross thread points
OP
OP
catalinajack
Guru
I was the original poster. I chose to butt-spilce to the existing 12 AWG wire. To run a new wire back to the breaker would have been a LOT of work which would have been my preference but I just couldn't get myself to do it. Instead, I used butt connectors that are used to connect submersible well pumps, connections that are always immersed in water at the bottom of a well. Seems to me that was a pretty good alternative.
C lectric
Guru
. *********Any standard that leaves to the reader some level of interpretation is not good. For example, in my mind, if the butt splice is enclosed in a raceway, it is enclosed. To others, it may mean a junction box.
Quote:*********
I understand what you are saying but to we electricalticians there is no ambiguity.
If as a layman electrician you misunderstand that is your problem similarily if we as a layman lawyer misunderstand the finer points of the law that is our problem.
The reason for the box enclosure, NOT conduit of any kind, is so that if a problem develops the problematic join is accessible and hopefully repairable.
A conduit will not allow that without cutting or breaking the conduit.
Use the box or as I see you have done an acceptable, I think,, splicing mechanism.
Quote:*********
I understand what you are saying but to we electricalticians there is no ambiguity.
If as a layman electrician you misunderstand that is your problem similarily if we as a layman lawyer misunderstand the finer points of the law that is our problem.
The reason for the box enclosure, NOT conduit of any kind, is so that if a problem develops the problematic join is accessible and hopefully repairable.
A conduit will not allow that without cutting or breaking the conduit.
Use the box or as I see you have done an acceptable, I think,, splicing mechanism.
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