Red/Black and Red/Yellow

[tiltrider1]

So some years ago 12v wiring standards changed from red/black to red/yellow. My boat was built during the red/black years. The marine stores all continue to sell red/black as well as red/yellow. I am just OCD enough that I can’t bring my self to mix the new standard with the old standard on my boat.

What is the general opinion? Stay consistent or start the change over?

 

[rslifkin]

I'd stick with red/black unless I'm working on a boat that already has red/yellow. Outside of boats, most DC wiring still uses red/black anyway.

 

[boomerang]

I'm of the update with the latest color yellow mindset. It might look nicer to have all the same color grouping but I like being able to look at a 14ga yellow wire running behind a cabinet bilge etc. and know right away it's not going to bite me with 110v!

 

[Duvie]

I am with the keep it consistent group. If you were to rewire almost everything I would say go with the new standard but for adding or replacing a few circuits it just makes things inconsistent on the vessel.

 

[sean9c]

When I rewired I went with red/yellow. Some component DC pigtails are still red/black and sometimes I've find that the local WM doesn't have red/yellow in the size I'm looking for, so I've ended up a mix of both. No big deal.

 

[C lectric]

THe change was pushed due to errors and the potential for errors between the Black AC hots and the Black DC negatives. It happened on vessels that have both AC & DC especially if in close proximity.

Personally I have used both since sometimes the yellow conductor cable or wire is simply not available unless I want to wait a long delivery time.

That said if I can get the yellow conductor cable then that is what I use.
NOt only that but the yellow stands out in crowded wiring conditions where the black hides.

Now my boat has both in the DC. It does not have AC at all.

I will be clear that I have seen colour reversals in other items such as my RV.

I was suspicious and did come checking and sure enough the colours used indicated differently. I don't even remember the specifics but I was disappointed. Darn, the mfgrs. can't even agree on what is what between House/commercial, RV, Boat wiring.

 

[psneeld]

This goes to a lot of threads of what is "good enough".


For some, color is important.


For some, they see it as a safety issue.


But it's not against even any suggestions by anyone/organizations to replace it for no reason.


So my guess is those that aren't of the perfection mindset or on limited budgets with be just living with a mix or staying all black....I think it will just be a mix of feelings between the several mindsets..


I am all ears if there is a REALLY good reason to switch...but for now I just order or buy yellow when I can for new or reworked projects.

 

[ancora]

My Taiwan built trawler has no color coding as they used whatever was on hand. When running new wire, I use red/black.

 

[koliver]

My boat has red/white, red/black and white/black, or is it black/white and white/red?
SO far, no red/yellow, black/yellow or other combinations. The only consistent colour is green for bonding and AC ground.
Whatever it is, I always have to check to see what direction the electrons are moving. A polarity tester is a frequently used tool. I have the simple one for AC and my multimeter does the job on DC.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Red, white or rose, I like all of them.

But when cabling something new/replace some wires I use yellow for negative DC, more visible and when I see one that's a no brainer I know what it is.
For anal ones even red is just one color among others for DC positive if you want to fully match the color chart.

L

 

[Insequent]

When I bought my boat in the PNW I had to learn fast about all the absolutely nutty electrical stuff in North America. The idea of hot AC and DC neg both being black is, frankly, dangerously stupid. But ok, I get that it is an historical oddity that you can inherit when buying something. Adding to this, the PO owned car dealerships and had car guys do work on the boat that was often ordinary at best. Too often quick patch-ins without fusing. But the PO's piece de resistance was running red/yellow for AC to a built-in vacuum that he installed at anchor. It was the only wire he had on board, was adequate gauge, so why not?

Although, if adding new circuits or making repairs then to me it makes sense to use the modern colour code. It tells prospective buyers what you have done, and that you knew what you were doing.

Fortunately, as part of my refit the boat was essentially re-wired, including new switch panels. I added 230V / 50Hz AC and used euro colour coding for that as that is what we have in Australia as well. The only wrinkle was that to get the required colours we put long lengths of coloured heat shrink over the US standard AC cable. However, that worked very well. Any one working on the boat now can trust their eyes for 240 AC, 110 AC and 12 V DC based on wire colour.

 

[O C Diver]

I did some rewiring, so I have both. There are a few runs where pulling new wire won't fit. So I have a few cables where all 3 conductors are positive and the negative is picked up in the engine room. The point being, label what you do. If you pull 3 conductor for an AC load, label the outside jacket at both ends.

Ted

 

[Flatswing]

If you have to buy new wire, no reason not to use red/yellow. Now, if I work on a DC circuit, I try to add yellow electrical tape or yellow shrink wrap to each end of the black DC neg.

 

[koliver]

Reality check:

My cars each use 5l of oil and a $10 oil filter. I have to remove a lower plastic cover to access the underside of the sump, so the car has to be up on portable ramps. 1/2 hour max.

My boat engines each use 10l of oil and a $25 oil filter. I have a vacuum pump. It holds about 8l of oil, so I have to dump it twice per change. again about 1/2 hour max.

My Motorhome uses 20l oil and a $50 oil filter. I have to crawl under to access the sump and remove the filter. About 1/2 hour max.

I DIY equally on each, though when the MH needed stuff while we were away I was more likely to hire it done, simply due to being away from home and in a place where the "vendors" of such services prowl the RV park. That doesn't happen boating.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Reality check:

My cars each use 5l of oil and a $10 oil filter. I have to remove a lower plastic cover to access the underside of the sump, so the car has to be up on portable ramps. 1/2 hour max.

My boat engines each use 10l of oil and a $25 oil filter. I have a vacuum pump. It holds about 8l of oil, so I have to dump it twice per change. again about 1/2 hour max.

My Motorhome uses 20l oil and a $50 oil filter. I have to crawl under to access the sump and remove the filter. About 1/2 hour max.

I DIY equally on each, though when the MH needed stuff while we were away I was more likely to hire it done, simply due to being away from home and in a place where the "vendors" of such services prowl the RV park. That doesn't happen boating.

May I think you did not post this on the right thead?

L

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. L_t. I think he has his wires crossed. Maybe the black and yellow?

 

[koliver]

May I think you did not post this on the right thead?

L

Sorry all, belongs in DIY,

 

[Comodave]

Greetings,
Mr. L_t. I think he has his wires crossed. Maybe the black and yellow?

Did you do the wiring in your house???

 

[FF]

The old standard red / black will be easy for the next owner to understand.

With our boat that mixed US Navy with other standards , our solution was a simple chart showing the + and - color configurations.

The wire , its insulation ,gauge and terminal ends are more important than color.

 

[sparky66]

I would(and am doing), use the red/yellow on any new wiring. Might not be consistent, but it is an improvement.

 

[exmaggiedrum]

Safety first - wire color second

Besides my own boat, I had to work on hundreds of boats that have been wired or rewired by who knows who (or ownerized). One item that was always in the front pocket of my tool kit was an AC detector. It won't work if the AC is off but will if the black wire is AC and energized. I used it before cutting or disconnecting a wire I wasn't sure about.

I also turned off all the AC breakers that I could before doing anything anyway.

I am of the mindset that the "best" is to have only one color for DC negative, but, as many have said, that is really not possible as yellow is sometimes not available for single wire/cable, and even less available for duplex cables. So you have to use what you can obtain.

Any owner that takes on some of the electrical maintenance of their boat should become familiar with what color wires they will find. I had one boat where the owner insisted that white is AC hot which is how he wired everything on his self-built boat. Then I found out he wasn't consistent. And, then you have inverters and other AC devices which label which color wire should go into which inlet or outlet. I did not like working on this boat, nor arguing with the owner about color coding.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

I'm of the update with the latest color yellow mindset. It might look nicer to have all the same color grouping but I like being able to look at a 14ga yellow wire running behind a cabinet bilge etc. and know right away it's not going to bite me with 110v!

Agree, more yellow means less opportunity to mix it up with AC.

 

[Capt Ray]

Agree, more yellow means less opportunity to mix it up with AC.

So long as the wiring colors don't clash, my Admiral is happy.

 

[Drogers100]

I understand the reasoning of utilizing the red / yellow, especially with AC and DC systems on my boat however I haven't been able to bring myself to to mix the wiring colors. I've never in 30 years grabbed a black AC wire mistaking it for DC.
If I decide to switch, I'm OCD enough to have to rewire the entire boat!
Dave

 

[NoRain]

I agree in that there are good reasons for both, that I shan’t repeat. But I would say that all my new DC -ve wiring is yellow, for the simple reason each new yellow leg I install is one less opportunity to confuse it with AC hot.

 

[FF]

To my mind the only reason to change might be to install a better grade of wire , thicker, tinned with real marine terminal ends , properly set.

 

[markbarendt]

Doing an electrical refit/fix now on my new to me boat.

I bought yellow electric tape. Where it should be yellow I'm planning on using just enough tape to make it obvious along the whole length of any black negative cables I reuse.