questions from crimping wires

[paulga]

Thanks for the note. I read through the marinehowto article so I get the point. The side with the smallest crimp ID is the one to crimp the bare wire end.

One other tip I'll toss in is with double crimp tools that also crimp around the cable insulation for strain relief, such as the ratcheting one in Steve's video, you need to make sure to put the terminal into the crimper the correct way.

The larger of the two crimps is for the strain relief crimping on the insulated wire, the smaller is for the crimp on the stripped wire. Different crimpers are marked differently, for my older Ancor tool you feed the wire into the terminal from the side with the colored dot on. That is opposite to the example in Steve's video using a different tool.

 

[paulga]

Double crimp is used on standard insulation 3 piece terminals.

Heat shrink terminals can prevent moisture from wicking into the strands, so why not use heat shrink terminals?

OP:
I have upgraded many older boats with Type 2 (heavy stranding) legacy wire throughout the boat. Rather than rewiring the boat, which is cost prohibitive, and to improve reliability of the wiring system I have used the following process:

• Re-terminate the legacy wiring behind the panel and at each major electrical component with ring terminals using a double anvil ratcheting crimping tool.
• Land the re-terminated conductors on properly sized terminal strips.
• Run new Type 3 (fine stranding) 105C Boat Cable from the new terminal strips to their respective breakers, fuses, switches, etc.
• Inspect, as much as possible, the legacy wiring throughout the boat for breaks in the insulation, aging insulation that has lost integrity, chafe points, etc.

The advantage of this process is that it upgrades the maintainability and the safety of the legacy electrical systems and minimizes cost.

 

[CharlieJ]

paulga:
I use adhesive lined heat shrink terminations in those applications, terminated with a single anvil ratcheting crimper, where warranted. These connections take about three times as long for installation as non-HS terminations and when installing hundreds of them that is an expense that is out of line with the benefit of using them.

Double crimp terminations crimped with a double anvil ratcheting crimper on Type 3 tinned boat wire where the termination will not be exposed to spray or submerged provides an excellent termination that will outlast the boat.

BTW, every single crimp we make, AWG 16 to AWG 4/0 receives a pull by hand after terminating.

 

[paulga]

these crimped terminations look consistent and repeatable, the double crimper also signs off with markings. are these made with a pro tool like TE 59250?

paulga:
I use adhesive lined heat shrink terminations in those applications, terminated with a single anvil ratcheting crimper, where warranted. These connections take about three times as long for installation as non-HS terminations and when installing hundreds of them that is an expense that is out of line with the benefit of using them.

Double crimp terminations crimped with a double anvil ratcheting crimper on Type 3 tinned boat wire where the termination will not be exposed to spray or submerged provides an excellent termination that will outlast the boat.

BTW, every single crimp we make, AWG 16 to AWG 4/0 receives a pull by hand after terminating.

 

[CharlieJ]

paulga #34:
They look to be excellent crimps. Whether made with a TE 59250 (a $2000 crimper), I cannot comment. The markings are heat shrink label stock and printed with a printer from Epson, Brother or others.

 

[paulga]

just curious. I thought the markings were branded by the crimper.

is a seamless termination preferrable to one with brazed seam?

paulga #34:
They look to be excellent crimps. Whether made with a TE 59250 (a $2000 crimper), I cannot comment. The markings are heat shrink label stock and printed with a printer from Epson, Brother or others.

 

[CharlieJ]

paulga #36:
I have no preference but generally use these: https://www.delcity.net/store/Nylon!Insulated,-Brass-Crimp-Sleeve-Ring-Terminals/p_806179.h_806180

I did not mention earlier that I only use nylon insulated terminations.

 

[Comodave]

I only use heat shrink with adhesive connectors. The cost difference is minimal and it’s worth it me to help ensure that I don’t get corrosion in the connections.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

paulga #36:
I have no preference but generally use these: https://www.delcity.net/store/Nylon!Insulated,-Brass-Crimp-Sleeve-Ring-Terminals/p_806179.h_806180

I did not mention earlier that I only use nylon insulated terminations.

Likewise, Nylon are superior in that they are less likely to crack, and be pierced by an overly aggressive crimping tool, or the person doing the crimps if using a non ratcheting tool. A very common error is to use the non-insulated die for insulated crimps, many new vessels I inspect have this undesirable "feature".

 

[SteveK]

@Steve D & @CharlieJ
Both of you agree on using a non wire end sealed connector with heat shrink to keep out water. Why did I think ABYC suggests the heat shrink style?

 

[CharlieJ]

@SteveK
I have been involved with ABYC for over twenty years and do not recall such a requirement. In fact the phrase “heat shrink” is used only once in the current version of ABYC E-11:

11.15.3.3.1 Ultrasonically welded splices shall be provided with additional support (e.g., heat shrink tubing).

 

[TJM]

I only use adhesive lined heat shrink connectors. This style provides a little strain relief as well as moisture intrusion protection. I also only use the ratcheting type crimper. I have improved many of my terminations on our 40 yr old boat. Jay, you are going down the right road.

 

[SteveK]

@SteveK
I have been involved with ABYC for over twenty years and do not recall such a requirement. In fact the phrase “heat shrink” is used only once in the current version of ABYC E-11:

I guess it was just the opinion of the surveyor, I took it as fact. Thanks

 

[Steve DAntonio]

No problem with using heat shrink terminals, however, in the boat building and repair world they are the exception. They are time consuming to install, and more costly for full vessel use. Again, no harm in using them, but it's over-kill to use them everywhere. For wet areas, like bilge pumps and high water alarms, heat shrink terminals are a veritable necessity. Otherwise, use double crimp, Nylon terminals.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
I tend to use liquid electrical tape in damp'ish/wet locations rather than heat shrink connectors. 2 or 3 layers is my norm.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

That's fine too. One weakness with heat shrink terminals is the tendency for them to be pierced by the crimping die, so when they are heated, the pierce grows in size, which means you have a hole in the otherwise waterproof membrane. You should test your crimping tool to make sure this will not occur.

 

[lwarden]

That's fine too. One weakness with heat shrink terminals is the tendency for them to be pierced by the crimping die, so when they are heated, the pierce grows in size, which means you have a hole in the otherwise waterproof membrane. You should test your crimping tool to make sure this will not occur.

For years I used the premade Anchor heat shrink terminals but often had the issue of piercing the sleeve when crimping, so it seemed to me this compromised the value of the heat shrink protection. I've switched to buying high-quality bare crimps and run heat shrink over the crimp and down the wire about 3/4". The nice thing about this is you get a chance to view how well the crimp is done and can run the heat shrink down as far over the crimp and wire as you can to get a better seal on the terminal it's self. If the connection is going to to be in direct contact with water I wet the end of the wire with dielectric grease before crimping so that if somehow water gets in it will not attack the crimp or travel up the wire. A bit of extra effort (and some might call it overkill), but since doing this I've never had a connection go bad.

 

[paulga]

Run wire through a heat shrink wrap, crimp then apply heat?

For years I used the premade Anchor heat shrink terminals but often had the issue of piercing the sleeve when crimping, so it seemed to me this compromised the value of the heat shrink protection. I've switched to buying high-quality bare crimps and run heat shrink over the crimp and down the wire about 3/4". The nice thing about this is you get a chance to view how well the crimp is done and can run the heat shrink down as far over the crimp and wire as you can to get a better seal on the terminal it's self. If the connection is going to to be in direct contact with water I wet the end of the wire with dielectric grease before crimping so that if somehow water gets in it will not attack the crimp or travel up the wire. A bit of extra effort (and some might call it overkill), but since doing this I've never had a connection go bad.

 

[SteveK]

That's fine too. One weakness with heat shrink terminals is the tendency for them to be pierced by the crimping die, so when they are heated, the pierce grows in size, which means you have a hole in the otherwise waterproof membrane. You should test your crimping tool to make sure this will not occur.

This is true. I still have an assortment of heat shrink tubes which I used to use and then switched to the ones that covered the wire end. This came about as I said in discussion with a surveyor. I may have misunderstood. The heat shrink tube covers a bare connector but never did cover the wire ends. That is where I mistakenly accepted the heat shrink terminals as they do cover the wire ends.

As you know if wire is under water we are (were) told to cut off 18 inches and splice a piece to eliminate any wire corrosion from wicked water.

 

[rgano]

I like to keep all terminations waterproof, and nowadays that means heat shrink connectors. To paulga, you have some options:

Goop up both ends of the yellow insulating plastic with liquid tape (I did for years with sometimes mixed results)

Solder over the open ends and liquid tape the other end

Cut that ugly mess off and do over with a proper fitting heat shrink fitting

 

[CharlieJ]

Regarding piercing of the insulation of heat shrink terminations: There is a specific single anvil, ratcheting crimper made to crimp these terminations that will not pierce the insulation: Ancor single anvil crimping tool

Automotive type crimpers and the ubiquitous Klein will definitely pierce the insulation.

 

[paulga]

Regarding piercing of the insulation of heat shrink terminations: There is a specific single anvil, ratcheting crimper made to crimp these terminations that will not pierce the insulation: Ancor single anvil crimping tool

Automotive type crimpers and the ubiquitous Klein will definitely pierce the insulation.

Thanks.
marinehowto advertised at the end of the article a PRO-HST crimper that is tested to reach a high tensile strength without squashing the terminal.
I decided not to go to that standard, simply because I don't have a lot of terminals to do.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I've never pierced insulation with a Harbor Freight cheapie.

 

[lwarden]

Regarding piercing of the insulation of heat shrink terminations: There is a specific single anvil, ratcheting crimper made to crimp these terminations that will not pierce the insulation: Ancor single anvil crimping tool

Automotive type crimpers and the ubiquitous Klein will definitely pierce the insulation.

My experience with these sorts of flat squashing crimpers has not been good. These crimps are best done by holding the actual outside radius of the crimp consistent and displacing a center portion opposing it (dimpling). Depending on the wire diameter, the dimple will be displaced fully to compress the wires and pack them together into a solid cylinder. This makes an extremely good crimp with virtually no air space between the crimp sleeve and the wire bundle. They essentially get extruded together. The anvil to create the dimple must be 180 degrees from the seam of the copper crimp tube to be ideal. The flat style crimpers such as the Anchor one listed just smash the tube flat, the wires go wherever, usually splayed out and likely the seam of the tube is at the edge which makes the crimp integrity very poor mechanically.
I stand by this method: crimping each side of a bare crimp, then covering it with a long length of shrink tube. This is the best mechanically, electrically and the best chance to survive water immersion.