|
|
01-14-2022, 01:28 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
City: Eastsound
Vessel Name: Audrey Grace
Vessel Model: 2003 Camano 31
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 236
|
Why is this light fixture switched on ground?
Can someone explain why the ground side is switched on this fixture? New fixture I installed also has the ground switched. Shouldn't the positive (red) side be switched as a best practice?
|
|
|
01-14-2022, 02:16 PM
|
#2
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
|
Not sure the switch location matters....just the overcurrent protection.
|
|
|
01-14-2022, 03:04 PM
|
#3
|
Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
|
A lot of lights don’t follow the common color code. Who knows?
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
|
|
|
01-17-2022, 09:05 PM
|
#4
|
Veteran Member
City: Eagle Harbor
Vessel Name: Double Haven
Vessel Model: 40' Pacific Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 57
|
Yes, positive should be the switched leg. But as they say, electricity doesn't know what color the wires are, so the wire may have been reversed somewhere. Don't rely on what it "should" be; use a multimeter to verify which leg is positive.
If both wires are black, standard practice is to have some marking such as writing or ribbing that indicates the ground or neutral wire. Most sparkies will rely on the microscopic writing on the wire's insulation as the indicator. But when it comes to electricity, don't trust. Verify.
|
|
|
01-17-2022, 09:53 PM
|
#5
|
Guru
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5,017
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhance
Can someone explain why the ground side is switched on this fixture? New fixture I installed also has the ground switched. Shouldn't the positive (red) side be switched as a best practice?
|
You are not showing all connections, all wires. I do not see a red wire, just a red connector. The light is wired like most, it is up to the installer to know which wire to connect the positive and negative or hot & neutral with AC
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Sea Sanctuary-new to me 1992 Bayliner 4588
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 06:29 AM
|
#6
|
Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
|
"Why is this light fixture switched on ground?"
Because it wont kill you on low voltage , do it with 120v or 240v and you could die.
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 08:25 AM
|
#7
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
|
On DC lights in boats....many are daisy chained so it doesn't really matter where the switch is or pos/neg connections.
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 11:29 AM
|
#8
|
Veteran Member
City: Eagle Harbor
Vessel Name: Double Haven
Vessel Model: 40' Pacific Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 57
|
All true about low-voltage DC and high-voltage AC. Still recommend using wiring best practices rather than "hey, stuff works, who cares." Color coding provides guidance and safety for the next guy who comes along and has to work with the circuit. For example, if you have a parasitic load before the switch rather than after, it's tougher to troubleshoot which circuit has it and how to fix it.
You don't have to do a whole-boat rip-and-rewire but if you find something that either wasn't installed per code/ guidelines or was modified incorrectly by a previous owner, see what you can do to put it in proper shape.
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 12:37 PM
|
#9
|
Guru
City: Duvall, Wa. USA
Vessel Name: Beach Music II
Vessel Model: 2003 Mainship 430 Trawler
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,040
|
I see you have a Camano Troll. On our 2005 Camano I replaced all the cabin light bulbs with LED's. The lights did not work. I found the fixtures were wired with positive to the base of the bulb instead of negative to the base. Swapped the wires and everything worked.
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 12:53 PM
|
#10
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
|
The wiring for daisy chained light in older boats....there is no positive or negative until hooked up... I have seen different fixtures in line wired alternately because it didn't matter for DC, incandescent bulbs...and it didn't matter where you broke or made the circuit.
Best practice???? No..but it DIDN'T matter in the big scheme of things and I would bet good money nobody got hurt or burned a boat down because of this.
Do it better if rewiring... if replacing just a couple fixtures or switches...man I wouldn't sweat it.
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 02:17 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
City: Eastsound
Vessel Name: Audrey Grace
Vessel Model: 2003 Camano 31
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 236
|
I have replaced two lights that look to be original from the manufacturer. Both lights were switched on the negative leg (switch attached to the black boat wiring). There must have been a reason for this, I would think, so I just replaced the lights as they were installed. But new lights have this same phenomenon. Why are black wires coming into and out of the switch on the light fixture if you are supposed to switch the positive (red) side? Black to black, red to red, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
The wiring for daisy chained light in older boats....there is no positive or negative until hooked up... I have seen different fixtures in line wired alternately because it didn't matter for DC, incandescent bulbs...and it didn't matter where you broke or made the circuit.
Best practice???? No..but it DIDN'T matter in the big scheme of things and I would bet good money nobody got hurt or burned a boat down because of this.
Do it better if rewiring... if replacing just a couple fixtures or switches...man I wouldn't sweat it.
|
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 03:30 PM
|
#12
|
Newbie
City: Fairfield
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 3
|
Do the lights only have black wires and no red wire?
The positive lead should be switched. It is preferred to be colored red on a 12v DC circuit. The light may not have a positive or negative side so it has 2 black leads and doesn't care what gets connected to where, unless the leads are polarized and both black then the positive lead will have writing and or white hash marks on it.
Always test and verify. I may use a 4 conductor cable to run two 12v DC circuits. One is red +, black - and the other may be white +, green - with the darker color of the pair negative. Depends what you are doing and what you have available.
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 06:02 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
City: Eastsound
Vessel Name: Audrey Grace
Vessel Model: 2003 Camano 31
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 236
|
This is the new fixture. I understand that the positive side is generally the side you want to switch, but that would mean I need to connect the red wire from the fixture to the black wire from the boat, and the black wire from the fixture to the blue wire from the boat. Everything in my being is telling me not to do that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiliKat
Do the lights only have black wires and no red wire?
The positive lead should be switched. It is preferred to be colored red on a 12v DC circuit. The light may not have a positive or negative side so it has 2 black leads and doesn't care what gets connected to where, unless the leads are polarized and both black then the positive lead will have writing and or white hash marks on it.
Always test and verify. I may use a 4 conductor cable to run two 12v DC circuits. One is red +, black - and the other may be white +, green - with the darker color of the pair negative. Depends what you are doing and what you have available.
|
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 06:17 PM
|
#14
|
Guru
City: Corpus Christi
Vessel Model: Willard Vega Horizon
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 500
|
You really should have a Volt-Ohm meter (VOM) and measure out what is positive and what is negative.
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 06:20 PM
|
#15
|
Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,566
|
Greetings,
Mr. j. I share your anality (word?). What I would do is re-colour the light wires. Buy some coloured heat shrink and apply as needed. Put some red on the black fixture wire and some black on the red..
https://www.walmart.com/ip/8-Sizes-P...3&gclsrc=3p.ds
Edit: Just read Mr. HT's excellent suggestion. Re-colour as to your discovery.
__________________
RTF
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 06:47 PM
|
#16
|
Guru
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5,017
|
Once found an entire house wired by owner where neutral AC was switched. I was changing a light fixture when I got a charge out of it.
At the time I was told the owner worked with circuit boards which are always switched after to reduce arching. Is that true?
Perhaps a new hire came from same background when this boat was built
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Sea Sanctuary-new to me 1992 Bayliner 4588
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 11:04 PM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
City: Maple Bay BC
Vessel Name: Orca
Vessel Model: RFC Coaster 23
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 300
|
It’s a boat, not a car or a AC powered home. The colours are OFTEN different than you would expect. Black will be the colour of the cables for negative at the battery’s. In the distribution on the rest of the boat, you may (will) find it to be different.
ABYC has a standard but they are a relatively new player. Anybody on here have access to the ABYC standard for circuit wiring colours?
|
|
|
01-18-2022, 11:37 PM
|
#18
|
Guru
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 5,017
|
Quote:
ABYC has a standard but they are a relatively new player. Anybody on here have access to the ABYC standard for circuit wiring colours?
|
I heard they changed black negative to yellow negative to avoid this type of confusion.
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Sea Sanctuary-new to me 1992 Bayliner 4588
|
|
|
01-19-2022, 05:53 AM
|
#19
|
TF Site Team
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,828
|
If I'm not mistaken switching ground in autos is fairly common... at least it used to be.
It is handy where a light is switched from multiple locations.
One power lead and a chassis ground is generally close by.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
|
|
|
01-19-2022, 06:26 AM
|
#20
|
Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
|
Some folks are not pleased with the color of LED lights.
We have overhead lights that have two contacts . By installing an auto bulbs with 2 filaments and adding a switch 3 levels of brightness is done .
WE installed a pull switch for the dim element as it is easily located/understood by a guest .
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Trawler Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|