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10-30-2017, 05:22 PM
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#41
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssobol
Consolidation in any industry rarely works out to the benefit of the end user.
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Not so sure of this statement. M&A activity pretty well rules the business world. Been involved in many of these with the intent to put a desirable business together where it could indeed be "sold." My guess is Giuseppe got what he wanted after years of toiling away, with no regrets as to Garmin's future plans.
In our marine world look no further than Raymarine to see how a buyout gave them life and provided end users with sensible hardware alternatives.
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10-31-2017, 09:30 AM
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#42
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Guru
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,107
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Garmin is negotiating buying navicons
Garmin is in the process of buying and building know-how from the outside, lastly being Interphase ...
liks this news
Garmin® acquires Navionics® | Business Wire
NBs
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11-01-2017, 11:54 PM
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#43
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Guru
City: Port Townsend
Vessel Name: The Promise
Vessel Model: Roughwater 35
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,569
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Loved my Garmin Zumo on my RT. Still have it but use it in my cars now with lifetime maps, hope it never dies. I think it took some big balls for them to get into marine electronics. Maybe they don’t suck at it I don’t know. When and if I upgrade I will have to take a look, but then I have a big iPad Pro that seems to do what I need. I mean how can I get lost in Puget sound?
This was just a 2 glass of Merlot ramble..... as you were.
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11-02-2017, 08:53 AM
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#44
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsfish
I’m not a Pollyanna, nor do I work for Garmin but most here seem to think this purchase by Garmin will result in a negative for boaters. Why not see this as a way for Garmin to improve their charts and give people an option of purchasing two different charts. At the very least wait until we can determine what will be the final product then you can applaud or criticize.
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For Garmin, it's all good. But for Furuno, Raymarine, Navico, and others it is likely bad.
Best case is that Navionics continues to operate as an independent chart supplier to other vendors with no hand on the scale favoring Garmin, or penalizing companies who compete with Garmin. But that seldom lasts very long. Eventually Garmin will want Navionics to do something that is cross-purposes with their business supporting other vendors. Guess who will win and who will lose? And garmin's competitors will think long and hard about continuing to send money to a Garmin subsidiary, and think even harder about being dependent on them. As I recall, Raymarine only supports Navioncs charts. So their balls are right in Garmin's grip. The bottom line is that I think you will see other vendors starting to distance themselves from Navionics as a chart supplier, which means the non-Garmin world loses a chart supplier.
Worst case is that Navionics stops supplying charts for anyone or anything other than a Navionics or Garmin product. In other words, they shut off the chart supply to their competitors, just as their chart supply was shut off some years ago. That would cripple Raymarine, and put the hurt on others. If Navico then did the same thing with C-Map, the two companies could seriously damage their competitors.
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MVTanglewood.com
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11-02-2017, 09:26 AM
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#45
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Guru
City: Miami River
Vessel Name: Gotcha
Vessel Model: Grand Banks. Heritage. 54
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,988
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I read something in an Active Captain newsletter that Garmin was going to expand Navionics charting and the new AC app will allow us to plot on our IPads and transfer automatically to Garmin units.
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11-02-2017, 09:52 AM
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#46
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsfish
I read something in an Active Captain newsletter that Garmin was going to expand Navionics charting and the new AC app will allow us to plot on our IPads and transfer automatically to Garmin units.
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Did you also read the other side of the story, that all that added functionality won't be available with other equipment providers?
If I'm an equipment provider, my one thought today would be "Never again will I allow myself to be dependent on a third party for my charts or other functionality."
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11-02-2017, 10:05 AM
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#47
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Guru
City: Miami River
Vessel Name: Gotcha
Vessel Model: Grand Banks. Heritage. 54
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,988
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BandB
Nope, I only read the part that applies to me. Happy today I own Garmin.
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11-02-2017, 10:26 AM
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#48
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsfish
BandB
Nope, I only read the part that applies to me. Happy today I own Garmin.
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We have Garmin, Furuno and Transas. Think they each excel in different areas.
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11-02-2017, 10:36 AM
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#49
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Guru
City: Miami River
Vessel Name: Gotcha
Vessel Model: Grand Banks. Heritage. 54
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,988
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I have Garmin, Garmin and Garmin. I win! LOL
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11-02-2017, 10:38 AM
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#50
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsfish
I have Garmin, Garmin and Garmin. I win! LOL ��
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Not when you see the new pricing structure when they and only they are integrated with Navionics and Active Captain and no one else can compete.
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11-02-2017, 10:52 AM
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#51
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Guru
City: Narragansett Bay
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36 Classic #715
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB
Not when you see the new pricing structure when they and only they are integrated with Navionics and Active Captain and no one else can compete.
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This is why I think that the FTC should have a look at this, if they haven’t already. It’s obvious that Navionics was eating up a lot of Garmins Business with smartphone and tablet apps and also supplying a strong if not superior product to Garmins direct competition. I am not an attorney but if it walks like a duck......yada yada yada.
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11-02-2017, 11:00 AM
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#52
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easting
This is why I think that the FTC should have a look at this, if they haven’t already. It’s obvious that Navionics was eating up a lot of Garmins Business with smartphone and tablet apps and also supplying a strong if not superior product to Garmins direct competition. I am not an attorney but if it walks like a duck......yada yada yada.
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It’s all way too small for any intervention. Garmin didn’t report the financials on either transaction which means they were both insignificant events for public markets. Now Garmin is a Swiss company, so the rules may be different, but I doubt in any significant way.
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MVTanglewood.com
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11-02-2017, 11:00 AM
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#53
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
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I still use 10 year old CMap chips, discs and cards in some devices. All my current on board gear (lots of it) will be totally unaffected by Garmin buying Navico. Best to hang on to some of this old stuff that still supplies data for our plotters and other instruments.
Some say Furuno passed on buying Navico. Things will unfold most likely that cause current hand wringing to become a distant memory. Twistedtree likely remembers the breakup of AT&T with Lucent being formed and then Alcatel coming about and finally Nokia buying Alcatel. It never stops.
I wish Jeppsen was still around. Oh well.
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11-02-2017, 11:08 AM
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#54
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Guru
City: Narragansett Bay
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36 Classic #715
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,857
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The first time that I experienced Navionics on my IPhone I knew that it was too good to be true. I hope that the employees of Navionics have equity.
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11-02-2017, 11:17 AM
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#55
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Guru
City: Miami River
Vessel Name: Gotcha
Vessel Model: Grand Banks. Heritage. 54
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,988
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We all need to sit back and wait. I have no idea what pricing Garmin will introduce but the are a Smart and if they overprice like BandB suggests they will soon have competition. Please, please, please don’t suggest we need more government interference in our boating life. The free market will solve our problems.
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11-02-2017, 11:17 AM
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#56
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
I still use 10 year old CMap chips, discs and cards in some devices. All my current on board gear (lots of it) will be totally unaffected by Garmin buying Navico. Best to hang on to some of this old stuff that still supplies data for our plotters and other instruments.
Some say Furuno passed on buying Navico. Things will unfold most likely that cause current hand wringing to become a distant memory. Twistedtree likely remembers the breakup of AT&T with Lucent being formed and then Alcatel coming about and finally Nokia buying Alcatel. It never stops.
I wish Jeppsen was still around. Oh well.
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Is the rumor that Furuno passed on Navico, or passed on Navionics? I see no synergy with Navico, and a huge liability. With Navionics I could see some synergy, but Fununo is probably the most immune to Navionics going away since they source and provide all the world's official charts as well as Navionics and C-map. Loss of Navionics charts would take away a choice from their customers, but won't leave anyone without an alternate chart option.
Funny you bring up ATT. I actually had a front row seat, working for Bell Labs for the first 3 years of the breakup. I worked for 3 or 4 different companies over the three years I was there, and never changed jobs..... Everything just swirled around us.
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MVTanglewood.com
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11-02-2017, 11:32 AM
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#57
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,092
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Aquisitions and roll ups in any industry is business 101. OK, maybe business 102. But it's very common, and over the past 5-10 years the marine industry has seen quite a bit of it.
Marinco - actually Power Products - bought BEP, C-Zone, Blue Seas, and Mastervolt. And probably more that I can't think of.
Advantec was formed by the acquisition of Steelhead, Freeman, Diamond Sea Glaze, and Pacific Coast Marine
Numerous boat builders have been absorbed by others, often after failure
Navico was created by the acquisition of Northstar, Robertson (may have come via Simrad), Simrad's consumer products, Lowrence, B&G, and most recently C-map
Furuno holds majority interest in MaxSea and MapMedia. And MaxSea acquired Nobletec and slipped their products in under the Nobletec name.
Parker bought Racor, Village Marine, and Sea Recovery
ITT bought Rule, Jabsco, and Gould. Then spun them out as Xylem.
Dometic bought CruiseAir, Marinair, and maybe more.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
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11-02-2017, 11:46 AM
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#58
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
Is the rumor that Furuno passed on Navico, or passed on Navionics? I see no synergy with Navico,
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My bad. Navionics, auto correct got me.
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11-02-2017, 11:55 AM
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#59
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
Is the rumor that Furuno passed on Navico, or passed on Navionics? I see no synergy with Navico, and a huge liability. With Navionics I could see some synergy, but Fununo is probably the most immune to Navionics going away since they source and provide all the world's official charts as well as Navionics and C-map. Loss of Navionics charts would take away a choice from their customers, but won't leave anyone without an alternate chart option.
Funny you bring up ATT. I actually had a front row seat, working for Bell Labs for the first 3 years of the breakup. I worked for 3 or 4 different companies over the three years I was there, and never changed jobs..... Everything just swirled around us.
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I think it's reasonable to assume that C-Map and Navionics approached all major electronics providers. Furuno's emphasis is not decidedly larger boats and commercial. If the price of chart software increases, likely not an issue to those customers. Still I think it will be interesting to see how they respond.
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11-02-2017, 11:57 AM
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#60
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
Aquisitions and roll ups in any industry is business 101. OK, maybe business 102. But it's very common, and over the past 5-10 years the marine industry has seen quite a bit of it.
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Not to forget West Marine getting bought that seemed to generate some teeth gnashing on TF.
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