N2K to PC interface (USB)???

[mvweebles]

One thing I have found to be a useful exercise is to create a break/recovery analysis document. It’s just a list of important systems on the boat - not just electronics - and a thought exercise about what happens if it fails. The two key questions are

1) what’s the scope of impact that the failure causes? What else stops working? So for example, if your gps fails, you also lose your position on your charts, might lose your Auto pilot, don’t have emergency position for VHF distress, etc.

2) what are you going to do about it? This can range from “do nothing”, to “call sea tow”, switch to a secondary gps, replace with a spare, etc.

And answer all this in the context of how YOU cruise. That will cause widely different answers. The results can help you decide where you want redundant devices, what spares to carry.

Things like a failed fresh water pump, or a failed toilet may be much more of an issue than a failed radar, for example. And for a lot of people none of it may matter much since you’ll just head home. And fix it later.

In his early days when he was cruising a smallish sailboat, Nigel Calder had a somewhat similar methodology but he overlaid ease of carrying spares and ease of having a spare shipped in addition to probability and impact of failure. In a simple example, he would carry impellers/seals but not a replacement pump - if a shaft broke (improbable), it would be shipped.

But that's a really interesting method TT. If you have something you're comfortable sharing (or perhaps a link on your blog), I'd be interested to read through. Sort of a few moves ahead in chess I suppose. An art I never mastered.

Peter

Edit - you mention impact of a failed head. Amen. My macersror died a couple days prior to departing SF for Ensenada a couple years ago. No way was I leaving with two crew and no suitable head. I also had a faucet cartridge on a shower valve fail, though not catastrophically. Net was water pump had to be turned off between use to prevent water loss from shower. I now carry spare faucet cartridges.

 

[JDCAVE]

Further to this thread, I started this one several years ago:

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/marine-computer-navigation-35717.html

See especially post #73.

Jim

 

[O C Diver]

Wondering if any of you using Coastal Explorer have used it with dual monitors? I'm considering setting up a system with a mini PC that will support dual monitors. I'm wondering if the software supports a navigation map display on one monitor and use the other monitor for a different CE function or or data display?

Ted

 

[tpbrady]

Ted

I don’t think CE supports two instances of the software running on the same machine. I have asked on their support forum to make their split screen ability truly independent screens so there is always a navigation window up, but no luck.

Tom

 

[O C Diver]

Ted

I don’t think CE supports two instances of the software running on the same machine. I have asked on their support forum to make their split screen ability truly independent screens so there is always a navigation window up, but no luck.

Tom

Thanks Tom. That's pretty disappointing considering the relatively low cost of a second PC monitor.

Ted

 

[rgano]

Thanks Tom. That's pretty disappointing considering the relatively low cost of a second PC monitor.

Ted

I have been playing around with my second monitor this morning after seeing your post, and about the only thing I was able to do was move the dialog box for the add screen function to the second monitor. I had to complete the selections there before I could continue with any other function, and the box disappeared from monitor 2 once I clicked ok. I was unable to move the instrument panel or any other item across. So no, too bad.

 

[O C Diver]

I have been playing around with my second monitor this morning after seeing your post, and about the only thing I was able to do was move the dialog box for the add screen function to the second monitor. I had to complete the selections there before I could continue with any other function, and the box disappeared from monitor 2 once I clicked ok. I was unable to move the instrument panel or any other item across. So no, too bad.

Thanks Rich.

Ted

 

[JDCAVE]

Wondering if any of you using Coastal Explorer have used it with dual monitors? I'm considering setting up a system with a mini PC that will support dual monitors. I'm wondering if the software supports a navigation map display on one monitor and use the other monitor for a different CE function or or data display?



Ted

My NUC only provides one HDMI port, but several USB’s. Perhaps I’m missing what you are looking for, but you can create different “Tabs” that show different information, AIS targets, for example. But CE allows up to 3 computers per license and I have it installed on my home computer for trip planning, the NUC as outlined and a laptop as a backup in case the NUC fails.

Jim

 

[rgano]

My NUC only provides one HDMI port, but several USB’s. Perhaps I’m missing what you are looking for, but you can create different “Tabs” that show different information, AIS targets, for example. But CE allows up to 3 computers per license and I have it installed on my home computer for trip planning, the NUC as outlined and a laptop as a backup in case the NUC fails.

Jim

Ted was asking if one running computer with CE up could support multiple monitors. Frinstance, I can have mutiple tabs up in Chrome browser and swipe one or more of the tabs to my second screen and still conduct operations on any of the tabs. You cannot do that in CE. One monitor at a time - using a HDMI cord, I can swipe the whole CE operation over to the other monitor and use some other program like Chrome looking at Active Captain on the first monitor. I have used CE on two laptops simultaneously to look at different charts or looking ahead for an anchorage or marina while keeping the other laptop zeroed in on the vessel in a large scale chart.

 

[O C Diver]

My NUC only provides one HDMI port, but several USB’s. Perhaps I’m missing what you are looking for, but you can create different “Tabs” that show different information, AIS targets, for example. But CE allows up to 3 computers per license and I have it installed on my home computer for trip planning, the NUC as outlined and a laptop as a backup in case the NUC fails.

Jim

The NUC I'm looking at has two HDMI ports and will run two monitors at the same time with different displayed information. As an example, with a web browser, you could look at a radar time lapse with future predictions on one monitor while looking at wind forecast predictions on another monitor.

Using 2 monitors would allow me to keep the navigation map (in full size) on one monitor, and use the other monitor to look at other pages CE offers. It's like having 2 computers with CE next to each other, but with only one NUC. If the software supported 2 monitors, it would only require the cost of a second monitor to accomplish it.

Ted

 

[tpbrady]

Ted

I looked at NUCs and when looking at AMD Ryzen laptops found this on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Generation-P...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

It looks to be powered by 19vdc so possibly could use a 12vdc laptop power supply that up converts to 19v.

Tom

 

[O C Diver]

Ted

I looked at NUCs and when looking at AMD Ryzen laptops found this on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Generation-P...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

It looks to be powered by 19vdc so possibly could use a 12vdc laptop power supply that up converts to 19v.

Tom

Was looking at a similar unit with a faster processor and more RAM but same idea. I run a pure sine wave inverter continuously, so will probably just use the 120 VAC adapter. Probably need to plug the monitor in 120 VAC anyway.

Ted

 

[stevemitchell]

I have used all of the solutions/adapters that have been mentioned so far (plus more) both with CE and with TimeZero on a multitude of PCs, laptops, and other devices.

The simplest solution is the Actisense NGT-1 USB to NMEA 2000 adapter. No extra power required, no software configuration, really not that much that could fail.

The Rose Point Nemo is an excellent choice too (reviewed it back in 2018 when it came out https://seabits.com/nemo-gateway-easy-nmea-networking-for-your-boat/) and is purpose built to work with CE, so that is definitely an advantage. It's also relatively simple, but it does require power and an ethernet connection. If you have NMEA 0183 or other devices, this is definitely a great way to get it all on CE.

The Maretron USB-100 is also an option if you intend on using Maretron stuff in the future, and it can supply a subset of what the Actisense does to CE or TZ. It does have some limitations in terms of the type of data that can be exchanged though.

All of the Yacht Devices stuff is excellent as well. I have a big box of all of their various versions - WiFi hub, ethernet connected version, multiplexer, etc. etc.

I prefer having at least two sources of data for my navigation PC if I am using it (as I do) for driving the autopilot. I also prefer having those sources be provided by physical cables to the machine, either USB or ethernet.

Most of my day job is with WiFi and networks, and I have seen my share of issues with anything WiFi on boats. Pumps, microwaves, and even just the vibration can cause WiFi issues aboard. Relying on navigational data from a WiFi source is OK to do if you have no other option, but I would strongly suggest a cabled solution as your primary, and a WiFi as a backup.

My primary setup is an Actisense NGT-1 USB combined with the Rose Point Nemo. Having two also means you could run two different pieces of software (CE + TZ, etc.) simultaneously.

 

[stevemitchell]

Was looking at a similar unit with a faster processor and more RAM but same idea. I run a pure sine wave inverter continuously, so will probably just use the 120 VAC adapter. Probably need to plug the monitor in 120 VAC anyway.

Ted

My primary boat PC's have been NUCs for years, and I'm buying some new ones for a new boat here shortly. The smaller form factor non-gamin ones (https://seabits.com/using-an-intel-nuc-as-a-powerful-boat-server/) have a variable internal power supply that can take between 11 and 19 volts if I remember right.

I currently have 4 running on Rendezvous, all wired directly into DC power. I much prefer this over having to run things off of the inverter, or having a separate inverter (which I used to do) just for navigation stuff. More things to fail in a critical situation.

 

[Circumnavigator]

I've had very good experience with Yacht Devices, mentioned several times above. I've used both their wifi and their USB N2K interface on both Fintry and Morning Light as well as several other of their units.



Jim

 

[wavpower]

Yacht Device NMEA 2000 USB Gateway YDNU-02 is an USB to NMEA 2000. I have used it with my PC and laptop. They also make a couple of other gateways. CE is a great nav program. I view it on 24" monitor and will be upgrading to 28" monitors this year. I also have a Simrad Evo2 that is for backup nav and runs my Halo radar.
Chuck
DeFever 49 RPH

 

[Takoradi]

It certainly is downright '80's and doubly frustrating because this stuff isn't rocket science. It's just standard data networking that the marine manufacturers have chosen to "reinvent" to make it seem more complex than it should be and therefore more expensive. Ok, that's my 2 cents. Back to the show!

 

[Iggy]

My primary boat PC's have been NUCs for years, and I'm buying some new ones for a new boat here shortly. The smaller form factor non-gamin ones (https://seabits.com/using-an-intel-nuc-as-a-powerful-boat-server/) have a variable internal power supply that can take between 11 and 19 volts if I remember right.

I currently have 4 running on Rendezvous, all wired directly into DC power. I much prefer this over having to run things off of the inverter, or having a separate inverter (which I used to do) just for navigation stuff. More things to fail in a critical situation.

SignalK very reinteresting stuff!!! I would love to go that route if I had the helm space for at lest three 12" screens to monitor all the data.

 

[twistedtree]

I’m curious if any non-programmers are using SignalK? Anyone? It seemed interesting at the time when it came out, but from what I’ve seen, it has gone nowhere.

 

[Iggy]

I’m curious if any non-programmers are using SignalK? Anyone? It seemed interesting at the time when it came out, but from what I’ve seen, it has gone nowhere.

I feel the same, its gone nowhere.

I have been looking at Time Zero Nav Software.


Twistedtree: I have been talking with your pay down here in Winthrop. He has TZ professional and likes it over CE. It seams user friendly but have only seen demos of TZ. Any advice of which one is better.

Just an FYI, I am running Simrad "stuff", no Furuno on abroad which would be
an advantage using TZ.

Thanks

 

[wkearney99]

The NUC I'm looking at has two HDMI ports and will run two monitors at the same time...

Just be aware that Intel's driver support for the NUC units has been TERRIBLE for anything other than just plain 2D displaying. While the chipset might claim to have GPU features... the drivers are often so terrible as to make it impossible to use them reliably.

A point that probably won't matter for simple chart displays, or even simple 3D info. But if you want to get into anything fancier (like 3D games) do not expect a lot of satisfaction.

I say this having used various NUC models over the years, and keep getting burned by Intel's driver shenanigans. The form factor is great, just not if you want to start doing "everything" on it.

 

[wkearney99]

I have been looking at Time Zero Nav Software.

...He has TZ professional and likes it over CE. It seams user friendly but have only seen demos of TZ.

The Timezero folks' approach to demos is ridiculous. Basically "buy the whole thing up front" and maybe we'll refund it if you don't want to keep it, but there's a very limited date range for that, possibly not long enough to actually make a good buying decision.

Dumb.

It'd be a lot smarter to put together a per-session timer limit AND a date range, and make it available for free/VERY low cost. Let folks get a feel for whether their setup is going to be viable for it, or not.

But, no. Instead it's "buy it or GTFO".

 

[stevemitchell]

I’m curious if any non-programmers are using SignalK? Anyone? It seemed interesting at the time when it came out, but from what I’ve seen, it has gone nowhere.

I'm not sure I would agree that it has "gone nowhere". I see new plugins and connectivity being delivered every week. This is of course being done by "programmers" as you label us but is usually being done because non technical folks want support for something.

One of the top three articles on my site is how to setup SignalK on a small computer which gets viewed between 300-500 times per day. I get a lot of non-programmers that contact me, every day, asking questions about using SignalK to bridge the gap between solutions that are commercially available and what they have on board. Most of the time it is because those solutions are really bad, cost too much to justify, or a combination of the both, and folks are interested in trying to solve those and have given up on mainstream vendors.

SignalK isn't ever going to compete with TZ or CE or a chart plotter. It's designed as a broker of info between different systems, similar to a Rose Point Nemo or other multi-function box.

 

[sbman]

I’m curious if any non-programmers are using SignalK? Anyone? It seemed interesting at the time when it came out, but from what I’ve seen, it has gone nowhere.

I'm a programmer, but... it is an easy way to get a bunch of data into Grafana which is a very nice charting and display tool.

 

[twistedtree]

I feel the same, its gone nowhere.

I have been looking at Time Zero Nav Software.


Twistedtree: I have been talking with your pay down here in Winthrop. He has TZ professional and likes it over CE. It seams user friendly but have only seen demos of TZ. Any advice of which one is better.

Just an FYI, I am running Simrad "stuff", no Furuno on abroad which would be
an advantage using TZ.

Thanks

Back in the days of MaxSea and Furuno’s NavNet3, I greatly disliked both as charting tools. CE was a breath of fresh are, and I never looked back.

But from the demos I’ve seen, and users I’ve spoken with, TimeZero Pro has come a very long way. It turned out that I could upgrade my 10 year old MaxSea license to TZ pro for only a couple hundred $, so I did. I figure it’s good as a backup/alternative to CE, especially where different chart sources are desired. I think Furuno continues to offer the greatest chart diversity of everyone.

That said, I haven’t even installed it, let along used it. I will at some point, but so far other projects remain higher priority.

 

[twistedtree]

I'm not sure I would agree that it has "gone nowhere". I see new plugins and connectivity being delivered every week. This is of course being done by "programmers" as you label us but is usually being done because non technical folks want support for something.



One of the top three articles on my site is how to setup SignalK on a small computer which gets viewed between 300-500 times per day. I get a lot of non-programmers that contact me, every day, asking questions about using SignalK to bridge the gap between solutions that are commercially available and what they have on board. Most of the time it is because those solutions are really bad, cost too much to justify, or a combination of the both, and folks are interested in trying to solve those and have given up on mainstream vendors.



SignalK isn't ever going to compete with TZ or CE or a chart plotter. It's designed as a broker of info between different systems, similar to a Rose Point Nemo or other multi-function box.

No disparagement meant towards programmers. I still consider myself one, though very rusty and in need of bottom paint. It’s just about customer accessibility. Stitching a bunch of stuff together, even if no actual code is required, will never get very far with a general audience.

I also couldn’t agree more about the shortcomings of commercial products, and the desire for alternatives.