Is your boat exclusively 220V? ( I haven't ever seen a Mainship that couldn't plug in at our YC docks, that are exclusively 110 v) If not, why can't you plug in any amperage of 110v through the appropriate adapter?
Last edited:
Multiple Chargers and power source
- Thread starter Seevee
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Is your boat exclusively 220V? ( I haven't ever seen a Mainship that couldn't plug in at our YC docks, that are exclusively 110 v) If not, why can't you plug in any amperage of 110v through the appropriate adapter?
rslifkin
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2019
- Messages
- 7,597
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Hour Glass
- Vessel Make
- Chris Craft 381 Catalina
I agree with those saying to make or buy an adapter setup. You should be able to power 1 or both 120v legs of the existing inlet and panel given the right adapter setup. You just won't have power to anything 240v without 2 out of phase connections or a 50A 125/250 hookup.
If he has any 240V appliances aboard isnt the above (powering both legs from one phase source) a potential problem waiting to happen if the 220V appliance is turned on?
Why not just power one leg/buss that feeds the onboard charger and make it mistake proof?
If everything is 120V aboard then I dont see an issue and it is essentially what my MS transfer SW does to power everything from one of the two 30A cords.
OK that makes sense. Electrons not my strongest point ... know enough to be dangerous at times.
Thnx
SteveK
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2019
- Messages
- 5,082
- Location
- Gulf Isalnds BC canada
- Vessel Name
- Sea Sanctuary
- Vessel Make
- Bayliner 4588
Agreed.
Plus all breakers off and only the load desired turned on within the 15A line capability and the pedestal breaker will not trip.
Make an adapter. Single line hot jumped from one leg to the other on the female end of the 220-240V 50A.
Soo-Valley,
You got me thinking and did more research and found some info from another electrical expert on another forum and came up with the following:
There's an adapter 120/30a male to 125/230 50a female that has a jumper to power both sides of the 50a plug, so I'd essentially power the whole boat. However, with the limits that I'd have no 220v and would be limited to 30a. Way more than adequate to top off the batteries.
https://www.corddepot.com/shop/powe...507-30a-to-50a-4-wire-locking-marine-adapter/
So I bought one.
Now, as another note. My new Mainship does not have a transformer, so I believe this will work fine. My old Mainship 400 has a transformer and don't believe it would work.
Thanks again for all the replies.... GREAT goup!
rslifkin
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2019
- Messages
- 7,597
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Hour Glass
- Vessel Make
- Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Yup, not having an isolation transformer gives you lots of flexibility there. The only thing you can't adapt to is 2x 30A in phase (which would give 30A per 120 leg, no 240) if the dock has GFCI breakers (the shared neutral will cause GFCI trips). That one edge case is pretty much the only reason I've kept my 2x 50A / 125V inlets instead of converting to a single 50A 125/250 (I have no 240v loads on board anyway).
tiltrider1
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2017
- Messages
- 4,358
- Location
- Pacific North West
- Vessel Name
- AZZURRA
- Vessel Make
- Ocean Alexander 54
I answered this question back in post #14.
You need two breakers located next to each other and you need to install a lockout. The lock out prevents you from turning on both circuit breakers at the same time. One breaker is energized by the generator, the other by the shore power. Both breakers supply the charger.
It’s not complicated. It’s not how I would do things but if that is how the OP wants to do it, it will work and be safe.
You need two breakers located next to each other and you need to install a lockout. The lock out prevents you from turning on both circuit breakers at the same time. One breaker is energized by the generator, the other by the shore power. Both breakers supply the charger.
It’s not complicated. It’s not how I would do things but if that is how the OP wants to do it, it will work and be safe.
Yes, that was the plan for awhile, but the adapter cord does the same thing a lot cheaper and easier.
Propnut
Senior Member
While on the subject of battery chargers , I have a question. ProMariner 12-60 charger . It’s a three bank charger. I currently have my house bank of 6 ( 6 volt 105 Trojans)
being charged from Bank one of the charger. Here’s the question. I just installed a 24 volt stern thruster powered by 2 12 volt batteries in series to make the 24 volts. So is there any reason why can’t I charge each 12 volt battery from bank 2 and bank three of the 12 volt charger?
being charged from Bank one of the charger. Here’s the question. I just installed a 24 volt stern thruster powered by 2 12 volt batteries in series to make the 24 volts. So is there any reason why can’t I charge each 12 volt battery from bank 2 and bank three of the 12 volt charger?
Last edited:
SteveK
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2019
- Messages
- 5,082
- Location
- Gulf Isalnds BC canada
- Vessel Name
- Sea Sanctuary
- Vessel Make
- Bayliner 4588
IMO you cannot unless you disconnect the series connection as you will feed + terminal which is connected to - terminal
Helmsman
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2020
- Messages
- 1,093
- Location
- Chattanooga
- Vessel Name
- Mishy Jean
- Vessel Make
- Helmsman Trawler 38E
You could put in a DC to DC battery charger which converts 12v to 24v between the house and the thruster. I believe that would work. It may work directly from the 12 60 charger, through a DC to DC charger converting the voltage, though I haven’t seen that done before.
Not a simple question with no simple answer.
Here are some pointers to think this issue through.
Let's tart with Lead Acid batteries. The biggest Problem for chargers is to determine the State Of Charge (SOC) of the battery because the battery's amount of chargong current it can receive depends on its SOC. The only way for a charger to estimate SOC is by calculating it from the actual battery voltage and the current it is supplying. But if there are two or more chargers, the chargers will calculate a wrong SOC.
That is not the only issue. When advanced chargers start charging, they take an as-found voltage reading, apply the maximum charge for a few minutes, wait a few minutes for the battery voltage to come to rest, take a
second voltage reading, and with that data they estimate the starting SOC and the energy capacity (amp-hours) of the charging battery. Based on these readings, and charging power of the charger, the charger estimates the time period to charge at the "bulk charging rate". Too long a period and the battery will gas out hydrogen. Too short a period and the battery will not be charged enough to start the absorption charging phase which uses a much lower chargong current.
Unfortunately, the misleading voltage readings read by chargers charging simultaneously have another complication. That is, the acceptable bulk charging rate is proportional to the number of batteries in the bank. For example, a group 28 battery can bulk charge safely at up to 40 amps and absorption-charge at 3 amps. But a six-battery bank then can bulk charge at 240 amps absorption charge at 18 amps. There is no problem if the charging source is small compared to the bank's capacity. But when parallel charging that msy not be the case.
Most newer chargers have bulk charge limiters to prevent excessive gassing. The limiter is activated when for a given current charge rate the battery voltage indicates the SOC is high enough to reduce the current to the absorption rate. The net result is that the battery bank may not charge any faster by paralleling several chargers.
Lithium ion batteries is a totally different can of worm. They can be charged at high rates but overcharge them a minuscule amount and the battery is destroyed. It burns because unlike the LA battery which can dissipate the excess energy by gassing hydrogen, the lithium ion battery collects the excess energy in the form of heat until it catches fire.
In addition, the SOC of a li battery is difficult to determine from its voltage because it remains fairly constant throughout its different levels of the SOC. This
is such a serious problem that many li battery chargers estimate the SOC by charged time. This type of battery-charger configuration requires that there be a battery monitor to continuously measure energy delivered and energy received by the battery and it may not be possible to simultaneously charge while providing power.
As you can see, just because couple of time someone ran the generator to power the shore power charger in parallel with the alternators of the engine without perceptible LA battery damage, it does not mean the arrangement is acceptable. The life of the battery bank may be shortened by damaging a bit its weakest battery.
In li batteries, usually the battery management system of each battery controls charging on a per battery basis. So there is never parallel charging going on at all. In such a situation multiple sources of charging in a charglng bus to the lithium ion battery bank should work fine.
IMHO, the best course of action is to consult with a qualified marine electrical technician or an electrical engineer with competence in marine power systems the battery charger configuration you intend to use.
Enjoy the journey.
Here are some pointers to think this issue through.
Let's tart with Lead Acid batteries. The biggest Problem for chargers is to determine the State Of Charge (SOC) of the battery because the battery's amount of chargong current it can receive depends on its SOC. The only way for a charger to estimate SOC is by calculating it from the actual battery voltage and the current it is supplying. But if there are two or more chargers, the chargers will calculate a wrong SOC.
That is not the only issue. When advanced chargers start charging, they take an as-found voltage reading, apply the maximum charge for a few minutes, wait a few minutes for the battery voltage to come to rest, take a
second voltage reading, and with that data they estimate the starting SOC and the energy capacity (amp-hours) of the charging battery. Based on these readings, and charging power of the charger, the charger estimates the time period to charge at the "bulk charging rate". Too long a period and the battery will gas out hydrogen. Too short a period and the battery will not be charged enough to start the absorption charging phase which uses a much lower chargong current.
Unfortunately, the misleading voltage readings read by chargers charging simultaneously have another complication. That is, the acceptable bulk charging rate is proportional to the number of batteries in the bank. For example, a group 28 battery can bulk charge safely at up to 40 amps and absorption-charge at 3 amps. But a six-battery bank then can bulk charge at 240 amps absorption charge at 18 amps. There is no problem if the charging source is small compared to the bank's capacity. But when parallel charging that msy not be the case.
Most newer chargers have bulk charge limiters to prevent excessive gassing. The limiter is activated when for a given current charge rate the battery voltage indicates the SOC is high enough to reduce the current to the absorption rate. The net result is that the battery bank may not charge any faster by paralleling several chargers.
Lithium ion batteries is a totally different can of worm. They can be charged at high rates but overcharge them a minuscule amount and the battery is destroyed. It burns because unlike the LA battery which can dissipate the excess energy by gassing hydrogen, the lithium ion battery collects the excess energy in the form of heat until it catches fire.
In addition, the SOC of a li battery is difficult to determine from its voltage because it remains fairly constant throughout its different levels of the SOC. This
is such a serious problem that many li battery chargers estimate the SOC by charged time. This type of battery-charger configuration requires that there be a battery monitor to continuously measure energy delivered and energy received by the battery and it may not be possible to simultaneously charge while providing power.
As you can see, just because couple of time someone ran the generator to power the shore power charger in parallel with the alternators of the engine without perceptible LA battery damage, it does not mean the arrangement is acceptable. The life of the battery bank may be shortened by damaging a bit its weakest battery.
In li batteries, usually the battery management system of each battery controls charging on a per battery basis. So there is never parallel charging going on at all. In such a situation multiple sources of charging in a charglng bus to the lithium ion battery bank should work fine.
IMHO, the best course of action is to consult with a qualified marine electrical technician or an electrical engineer with competence in marine power systems the battery charger configuration you intend to use.
Enjoy the journey.
Last edited:
