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Old 04-12-2022, 08:14 AM   #1
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Mounting zip ties

Each of my electrical projects cleans up the rather messy collection of wires and hoses in my bilge and throughout the boat. Often tidying up loose wires is as simple as adding them to a nearby bundle that is already secured to a bulkhead or other structure, but there is a growing number of instances where I need to attach a zip tied group of wires to a new point.

What is the best way to make that attachment? I see several existing examples of a small stainless screw in a hole drilled in a big zip tie screwed directly into a fiberglass stringer or similar structure. Any problem with that? Or should I go to the length of epoxying a small piece of plywood to the fiberglass and screwing the zip tie to the plywood? If that is the standard, my Mariner 37 is way out of compliance.

My two main concerns are keeping it neat and safe, and not compromising the waterproof nature of the fiberglass by poking holes in it.
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Old 04-12-2022, 08:26 AM   #2
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Each of my electrical projects cleans up the rather messy collection of wires and hoses in my bilge and throughout the boat. Often tidying up loose wires is as simple as adding them to a nearby bundle that is already secured to a bulkhead or other structure, but there is a growing number of instances where I need to attach a zip tied group of wires to a new point.

What is the best way to make that attachment? I see several existing examples of a small stainless screw in a hole drilled in a big zip tie screwed directly into a fiberglass stringer or similar structure. Any problem with that? Or should I go to the length of epoxying a small piece of plywood to the fiberglass and screwing the zip tie to the plywood? If that is the standard, my Mariner 37 is way out of compliance.

My two main concerns are keeping it neat and safe, and not compromising the waterproof nature of the fiberglass by poking holes in it.
A short screw that penetrates 1/4" is safe in most situations. There are zip ties that are designed to accommodate a screw, and there are also zip tie bases both with screw holes and with self adhesive pads. I have no idea how well the self-adhesive pads hold up.
https://www.cabletiesandmore.com/cab...c649a48fd04615
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Old 04-12-2022, 08:47 AM   #3
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Self adhesive pads will fail. Epoxying a small piece of wood is an advantage in the long run but I don’t find it necessary.

A bit late now but there are many forms of conduit that can be installed to eliminate the need for zip ties. Again, not necessary.
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Old 04-12-2022, 09:08 AM   #4
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What you need is either something like this... https://tinyurl.com/yckntmxj


Or just DIY with an epoxy glue and either attach the tie mount directly to the hull, or attach a block of wood to the hull and then screw the tie mount to that.


Definitely do not count on the "normal" adhesive backed tie mounts to hold for very long!
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Old 04-12-2022, 09:21 AM   #5
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A short screw that penetrates 1/4" is safe in most situations. There are zip ties that are designed to accommodate a screw, and there are also zip tie bases both with screw holes and with self adhesive pads. I have no idea how well the self-adhesive pads hold up.
https://www.cabletiesandmore.com/cab...c649a48fd04615
Easier still are the "saddle type" mounts which have one screw hole in the middle. I use these all over the place:
https://www.amazon.com/Saddle-Mounts.../dp/B09B8LWXKP

I've also never tried the adhesive, it seems unlikely it'll last very long, or hold strongly enough.
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Old 04-12-2022, 09:50 AM   #6
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Easier still are the "saddle type" mounts which have one screw hole in the middle. I use these all over the place:
https://www.amazon.com/Saddle-Mounts.../dp/B09B8LWXKP
Yes - these are the best IMO.
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Old 04-12-2022, 10:26 AM   #7
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It depends on the situation, if you can drill into and maybe through the fiberglass then you can use a screw. If the other side is visible then you donít want to drill through it so I glass a piece of plywood and screw to it.
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Old 04-12-2022, 10:26 AM   #8
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Yes - these are the best IMO.

Those used to be the best I LOVE these: https://www.lowes.com/pd/100-Pack-11...ies/1000071559
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Old 04-12-2022, 10:45 AM   #9
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Those used to be the best I LOVE these: https://www.lowes.com/pd/100-Pack-11...ies/1000071559

I was just about to say that I liked the "saddle" mounts the best, but then Dave had to show these. I'll definitely have to add these to my toolbox.



I have used the "screwhole end" cable ties before, but if you need to remove one, you have to cut it, then have to remove the screw and install a new one. The saddle type mounts allow you to use an ordinary cable tie and you don't have to disturb the screw if you want to remove and replace.


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Old 04-12-2022, 11:00 AM   #10
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I've had the self-adhesive pads fail in a few days and others last for years. Most now last for years, but it takes some tedious prep. Good clean solid surface, scrub with acetone, heat area with heat gun, hold pad in place with pressure for 10-15 seconds. I have some going on 6 years with this regimen. It's on the underneath side of a cored deck where, after repairing the deck, I did not want any screws.
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Old 04-12-2022, 11:12 AM   #11
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I was just about to say that I liked the "saddle" mounts the best, but then Dave had to show these. I'll definitely have to add these to my toolbox.



I have used the "screwhole end" cable ties before, but if you need to remove one, you have to cut it, then have to remove the screw and install a new one. The saddle type mounts allow you to use an ordinary cable tie and you don't have to disturb the screw if you want to remove and replace.


Ken
I'm on my third bag. The holes are a little small for the typical #8 screws that were used to hold cable ties in my boat. You'd think this would be a problem, but it makes it really easy to pre-start #8 screws in them with just my fingers which can be really helpful when you haven't lived near the nuke plant for long and don't yet have three hands.
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:06 PM   #12
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For me there's no one size/type fits all. Here's an assortment from by bag. I like the screwed in saddle clamps if it's in an area that I'll be getting into regularly and if the sub straight will take screws. It was mentioned about the failure rate of the adhesive on the stick on type. I’ve good great success after I’ve removed the manufacturer’s adhesive and replace it with 3M VHB tape when mounted on a clean, hard, flat, non-porous surface. 3 years ago I mounted 2 solar panels on the roof of a van with no screws just VHB tape. They are still there.
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:10 PM   #13
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On my last build if I was forced to use pads I'd run a small head of Sikaflex around pad edge and a blob of hot melt glue in middle to hold it until sika set.
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Old 04-12-2022, 06:12 PM   #14
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When it comes to zip ties. I will only use the self trimming zip ties. They leave no sharp edges that easily tear the flesh off your arms.
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Old 04-12-2022, 08:03 PM   #15
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I glue , Sikaflex, I think 291 as it is fast setting, plywood pads where I want them.
THen I use the screw on pads to hold the pad to the plywood.
Then the Tyraps to secure the wire.

Some of my P.O. securements were done with the Tyraps with the screw hole for holding.
I learned to dislike them. If you have to cut them you have to remove the screw head.
With the pads it is a one time deal for the pad. Cut the Tyrap to release, then replace the Tyrap. And since I am retarded and getting cheap I cut the Tyrap carefully for reuse. I'll blame it on my recyling bent. If I can reuse I will. Just cut on the side of the head the strap is slid into the gripper.
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Old 04-12-2022, 09:14 PM   #16
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I finally bought a micro flush cutter for trimming tie wrap tails. Itís almost life changing. I hate the little tabs sticking out to scratch me.
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Old 04-12-2022, 09:34 PM   #17
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I finally bought a micro flush cutter for trimming tie wrap tails. Itís almost life changing. I hate the little tabs sticking out to scratch me.
YES! I hate those sharp ty wrap tails. Iíve sliced myself quite well on them. I have a micro cutter and always make the effort to trim the ties flush. Mine and the previous guyís.
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Old 04-12-2022, 11:04 PM   #18
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I finally bought a micro flush cutter for trimming tie wrap tails. It’s almost life changing. I hate the little tabs sticking out to scratch me.
I have something similar but it cuts at 90 degrees as in my usage its often hard to line up a conventional cutting pliers to the zip tie without leaving a sharp angled end.

This isnt exactly mine but it gives you the idea. Works in every situation I have found thus far.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...g?v=1558038415
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Old 04-13-2022, 01:33 AM   #19
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When it comes to zip ties. I will only use the self trimming zip ties. They leave no sharp edges that easily tear the flesh off your arms.

Another reason to use the zip ties I linked. The tail is the part that gets screwed to the mounting surface and after you trim it, it lays flat.
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Old 04-13-2022, 01:37 AM   #20
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For me there's no one size/type fits all. Here's an assortment from by bag. I like the screwed in saddle clamps if it's in an area that I'll be getting into regularly and if the sub straight will take screws. It was mentioned about the failure rate of the adhesive on the stick on type. Iíve good great success after Iíve removed the manufacturerís adhesive and replace it with 3M VHB tape when mounted on a clean, hard, flat, non-porous surface. 3 years ago I mounted 2 solar panels on the roof of a van with no screws just VHB tape. They are still there.

While they may not be 100% one size fits all, the zip ties I linked can hold one wire or a 3" hose. They can also be linked together to reach around even bigger objects.
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