Mounting zip ties

[HeadedToTexas]

Each of my electrical projects cleans up the rather messy collection of wires and hoses in my bilge and throughout the boat. Often tidying up loose wires is as simple as adding them to a nearby bundle that is already secured to a bulkhead or other structure, but there is a growing number of instances where I need to attach a zip tied group of wires to a new point.

What is the best way to make that attachment? I see several existing examples of a small stainless screw in a hole drilled in a big zip tie screwed directly into a fiberglass stringer or similar structure. Any problem with that? Or should I go to the length of epoxying a small piece of plywood to the fiberglass and screwing the zip tie to the plywood? If that is the standard, my Mariner 37 is way out of compliance.

My two main concerns are keeping it neat and safe, and not compromising the waterproof nature of the fiberglass by poking holes in it.

 

[AlanT]

Each of my electrical projects cleans up the rather messy collection of wires and hoses in my bilge and throughout the boat. Often tidying up loose wires is as simple as adding them to a nearby bundle that is already secured to a bulkhead or other structure, but there is a growing number of instances where I need to attach a zip tied group of wires to a new point.

What is the best way to make that attachment? I see several existing examples of a small stainless screw in a hole drilled in a big zip tie screwed directly into a fiberglass stringer or similar structure. Any problem with that? Or should I go to the length of epoxying a small piece of plywood to the fiberglass and screwing the zip tie to the plywood? If that is the standard, my Mariner 37 is way out of compliance.

My two main concerns are keeping it neat and safe, and not compromising the waterproof nature of the fiberglass by poking holes in it.

A short screw that penetrates 1/4" is safe in most situations. There are zip ties that are designed to accommodate a screw, and there are also zip tie bases both with screw holes and with self adhesive pads. I have no idea how well the self-adhesive pads hold up.
https://www.cabletiesandmore.com/cable-tie-mounts-nylon?msclkid=df192bf1f24f1ead51c649a48fd04615

 

[tiltrider1]

Self adhesive pads will fail. Epoxying a small piece of wood is an advantage in the long run but I don’t find it necessary.

A bit late now but there are many forms of conduit that can be installed to eliminate the need for zip ties. Again, not necessary.

 

[denverd0n]

What you need is either something like this... https://tinyurl.com/yckntmxj


Or just DIY with an epoxy glue and either attach the tie mount directly to the hull, or attach a block of wood to the hull and then screw the tie mount to that.


Definitely do not count on the "normal" adhesive backed tie mounts to hold for very long!

 

[CaptTom]

A short screw that penetrates 1/4" is safe in most situations. There are zip ties that are designed to accommodate a screw, and there are also zip tie bases both with screw holes and with self adhesive pads. I have no idea how well the self-adhesive pads hold up.
https://www.cabletiesandmore.com/cable-tie-mounts-nylon?msclkid=df192bf1f24f1ead51c649a48fd04615

Easier still are the "saddle type" mounts which have one screw hole in the middle. I use these all over the place:
https://www.amazon.com/Saddle-Mounts-Tapping-Organizer-Holders/dp/B09B8LWXKP

I've also never tried the adhesive, it seems unlikely it'll last very long, or hold strongly enough.

 

[AlanT]

Easier still are the "saddle type" mounts which have one screw hole in the middle. I use these all over the place:
https://www.amazon.com/Saddle-Mounts-Tapping-Organizer-Holders/dp/B09B8LWXKP

Yes - these are the best IMO.

 

[Comodave]

It depends on the situation, if you can drill into and maybe through the fiberglass then you can use a screw. If the other side is visible then you don’t want to drill through it so I glass a piece of plywood and screw to it.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Yes - these are the best IMO.

Those used to be the best I LOVE these: https://www.lowes.com/pd/100-Pack-11-in-Cable-Ties/1000071559

 

[kchace]

Those used to be the best I LOVE these: https://www.lowes.com/pd/100-Pack-11-in-Cable-Ties/1000071559

I was just about to say that I liked the "saddle" mounts the best, but then Dave had to show these. I'll definitely have to add these to my toolbox.



I have used the "screwhole end" cable ties before, but if you need to remove one, you have to cut it, then have to remove the screw and install a new one. The saddle type mounts allow you to use an ordinary cable tie and you don't have to disturb the screw if you want to remove and replace.


Ken

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I've had the self-adhesive pads fail in a few days and others last for years. Most now last for years, but it takes some tedious prep. Good clean solid surface, scrub with acetone, heat area with heat gun, hold pad in place with pressure for 10-15 seconds. I have some going on 6 years with this regimen. It's on the underneath side of a cored deck where, after repairing the deck, I did not want any screws.

 

[Mischief Managed]

I was just about to say that I liked the "saddle" mounts the best, but then Dave had to show these. I'll definitely have to add these to my toolbox.



I have used the "screwhole end" cable ties before, but if you need to remove one, you have to cut it, then have to remove the screw and install a new one. The saddle type mounts allow you to use an ordinary cable tie and you don't have to disturb the screw if you want to remove and replace.


Ken

I'm on my third bag. The holes are a little small for the typical #8 screws that were used to hold cable ties in my boat. You'd think this would be a problem, but it makes it really easy to pre-start #8 screws in them with just my fingers which can be really helpful when you haven't lived near the nuke plant for long and don't yet have three hands.

 

[Larry M]

For me there's no one size/type fits all. Here's an assortment from by bag. I like the screwed in saddle clamps if it's in an area that I'll be getting into regularly and if the sub straight will take screws. It was mentioned about the failure rate of the adhesive on the stick on type. I’ve good great success after I’ve removed the manufacturer’s adhesive and replace it with 3M VHB tape when mounted on a clean, hard, flat, non-porous surface. 3 years ago I mounted 2 solar panels on the roof of a van with no screws just VHB tape. They are still there.

 

[Simi 60]

On my last build if I was forced to use pads I'd run a small head of Sikaflex around pad edge and a blob of hot melt glue in middle to hold it until sika set.

 

[tiltrider1]

When it comes to zip ties. I will only use the self trimming zip ties. They leave no sharp edges that easily tear the flesh off your arms.

 

[C lectric]

I glue , Sikaflex, I think 291 as it is fast setting, plywood pads where I want them.
THen I use the screw on pads to hold the pad to the plywood.
Then the Tyraps to secure the wire.

Some of my P.O. securements were done with the Tyraps with the screw hole for holding.
I learned to dislike them. If you have to cut them you have to remove the screw head.
With the pads it is a one time deal for the pad. Cut the Tyrap to release, then replace the Tyrap. And since I am retarded and getting cheap I cut the Tyrap carefully for reuse. I'll blame it on my recyling bent. If I can reuse I will. Just cut on the side of the head the strap is slid into the gripper.

 

[HopCar]

I finally bought a micro flush cutter for trimming tie wrap tails. It’s almost life changing. I hate the little tabs sticking out to scratch me.

 

[kchace]

I finally bought a micro flush cutter for trimming tie wrap tails. It’s almost life changing. I hate the little tabs sticking out to scratch me.

YES! I hate those sharp ty wrap tails. I’ve sliced myself quite well on them. I have a micro cutter and always make the effort to trim the ties flush. Mine and the previous guy’s.

 

[AlanT]

I finally bought a micro flush cutter for trimming tie wrap tails. It’s almost life changing. I hate the little tabs sticking out to scratch me.

I have something similar but it cuts at 90 degrees as in my usage its often hard to line up a conventional cutting pliers to the zip tie without leaving a sharp angled end.

This isnt exactly mine but it gives you the idea. Works in every situation I have found thus far.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...led-gate-cutters-1_1200x1200.jpg?v=1558038415

 

[Mischief Managed]

When it comes to zip ties. I will only use the self trimming zip ties. They leave no sharp edges that easily tear the flesh off your arms.

Another reason to use the zip ties I linked. The tail is the part that gets screwed to the mounting surface and after you trim it, it lays flat.

 

[Mischief Managed]

For me there's no one size/type fits all. Here's an assortment from by bag. I like the screwed in saddle clamps if it's in an area that I'll be getting into regularly and if the sub straight will take screws. It was mentioned about the failure rate of the adhesive on the stick on type. I’ve good great success after I’ve removed the manufacturer’s adhesive and replace it with 3M VHB tape when mounted on a clean, hard, flat, non-porous surface. 3 years ago I mounted 2 solar panels on the roof of a van with no screws just VHB tape. They are still there.

While they may not be 100% one size fits all, the zip ties I linked can hold one wire or a 3" hose. They can also be linked together to reach around even bigger objects.

 

[C lectric]

I too use cutters that can leave a clean, no sharp point cut on the Tyrap. Different from those shown but YOU must also be carefull to hold the cutter in a position to make the cut in a manner that you don't leave a sharp point.

If you can't then leave the tail long enough that it is still quite flexible so it won't cut you or someone else.

 

[Bmarler]

i use these with cable ties: https://www.amazon.com/Panduit-GS2B-Controlled-Tension-Cut-Off/dp/B001EU2558

i used to get them from boeing surplus in kent when i worked just down the street from them. i gave most of them away but kept a couple of different sized ones. even had a couple air powered ones for use at the workbench.
they tension and cut the ends so you don't have any sharp ends.

 

[High Wire]

i use these with cable ties: https://www.amazon.com/Panduit-GS2B-Controlled-Tension-Cut-Off/dp/B001EU2558

i used to get them from boeing surplus in kent when i worked just down the street from them. i gave most of them away but kept a couple of different sized ones. even had a couple air powered ones for use at the workbench.
they tension and cut the ends so you don't have any sharp ends.

Yes. I had one similar from T&B on the production line. One day I found one at a yard sale for $1! The seller lit up “you know what that is, don’t you?” Absolutely!
The 3M mounts can be mounted originally with the sticky back then add a flat or oval head screw later. The adhesive alone usually fails.

 

[Benthic2]

Is it possible to drill into the bilge overhead, ie: salon floor ?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

There is the somewhat mysterious pegboard material lining the engine room ceiling. There are some hard spots that would accept screws.

 

[JDCAVE]

I have used 4200 to hold the centre mounts onto FRP on my skiff. I’m not a fan of the cable ties with the screw mounts. Too much play. I cut the ties flush and parallel to the mounts.

Jim

 

[Neil Ramsey]

I use Weld Mount 8040 with their small pads and they never fail.
I even mounted our hot water tank to the inner hull side with 4 of their stud mounts.
Rod Collins recommends them so that is good enough for me.

 

[ProMaritime]

You can buy zip ties with a hole to mount with a screw.

 

[Reef Wanderer]

On my last build if I was forced to use pads I'd run a small head of Sikaflex around pad edge and a blob of hot melt glue in middle to hold it until sika set.

Thanks Simi, that is s great idea. I use the adhesive pads (Narva brand) and at random they fall off after a couple of years. I knew an Aussie would have a good practical solution without drilling holes. ?

 

[Circumnavigator]

I use saddles exclusively -- anything else and you have to remove and replace a screw when you make the inevitable changes.


I note that all of the ties and saddles shown above are white. They're fine below decks, but will rapidly fail in UV outdoors. I stock only black ties and saddles.


Jim