Marine trumpet horn replacement

[koliver]

Jim:

These specify 15 amp draw on 12v, so your wiring may be up to it:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XCLWVSV/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2KRJZWE9P97TQ&psc=1

 

[Portage_Bay]

180-2100 hz is a very broad range of frequencies. I’m pretty sure most of us would be in compliance.

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

Jim

Jim, yes you are correct, pretty much all of us are in compliance as long as we stick with "as built" or buy replacement horns from a marine supplier.

Where we can get into trouble is when we start putting on horns that make us sound like the big guys or a freight train or?. That's what my post was about.

 

[Portage_Bay]

ASD, re "most of us being inland". I'm surprised at that, but I'll take your word for it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, we get enough of that on TF. I do want to clarify my point about using horns that are in compliance and expand it a bit to horns that exhibit the expected character.

re the train horn being in compliance. If the frequency is right, then you are correct the horn is in compliance. My statement in post #27 "I don't want a deep draft ship or big tow trying to find another big one when I need them to pay attention to me." for clarification might better be stated "I don't want another vessel or ship confused by the character of my sound signal, I want them to know it's me"

Let me give you an example that could be relevant to you. You're home ported on the Columbia River where there are a lot of areas with train tracks near the river as well as some crossing the river. You round a bend to find yourself in an uncomfortable meeting situation with a big tow, been there many times myself on your river. You hail the tow on vhf 16, then vhf 13. No response which unfortunately happens. So, quite reasonably you sound your horn, this time your train horn. Do you want the tug capt to dismiss your horn because he thinks it's a train?

 

[ronlord]

I replaced my dual trumpet with this small air horn from Harbor Freight. Been 3 years now and still works great. Also put one on my 16' florida runabout, exposed to salt water and still working great. Probably 3x as loud as the trumpets and small, you can mount this anywhere.

https://www.harborfreight.com/bad-boy-air-horn-94117.html?_br_psugg_q=air+horn

 

[syjos]

Puget Sound is COLREG - International rules.

 

[koliver]

I replaced my dual trumpet with this small air horn from Harbor Freight. Been 3 years now and still works great. Also put one on my 16' florida runabout, exposed to salt water and still working great. Probably 3x as loud as the trumpets and small, you can mount this anywhere.

https://www.harborfreight.com/bad-boy-air-horn-94117.html?_br_psugg_q=air+horn

This one is in my dinghy and as well, added to my boat horns. Both located inside the fibreglass and both very loud outside. At least 5 years and going strong for both.
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-super-loud-air-horn-40134.html
In Canada, Princess Auto has them at comparable prices. Likely from the same Chinese Mfg.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

ASD, re "most of us being inland". I'm surprised at that, but I'll take your word for it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, we get enough of that on TF. I do want to clarify my point about using horns that are in compliance and expand it a bit to horns that exhibit the expected character.

re the train horn being in compliance. If the frequency is right, then you are correct the horn is in compliance. My statement in post #27 "I don't want a deep draft ship or big tow trying to find another big one when I need them to pay attention to me." for clarification might better be stated "I don't want another vessel or ship confused by the character of my sound signal, I want them to know it's me"

Let me give you an example that could be relevant to you. You're home ported on the Columbia River where there are a lot of areas with train tracks near the river as well as some crossing the river. You round a bend to find yourself in an uncomfortable meeting situation with a big tow, been there many times myself on your river. You hail the tow on vhf 16, then vhf 13. No response which unfortunately happens. So, quite reasonably you sound your horn, this time your train horn. Do you want the tug capt to dismiss your horn because he thinks it's a train?

I may have over stated the inland part.

My train horns are in compliance with the Rules of Navigation. There is no mention in the rules that train horns are not acceptable or the construction. The rules state frequency.

My horns get your attention and that is what I wanted. Last summer I just about got T-Boned just off of Pine Island, north of Port McNeill in heavy fog. My horns got the idiot's attention and saved the day, so I will stick with my train horns.

Puget Sound is COLREG - International rules.

Interesting. Did not know this.

 

[koliver]

I may have over stated the inland part.


Interesting. Did not know this.

This from your INLAND RULES:

§ 80.1385 Strait of Juan de Fuca.
The 72 COLREGS shall apply on
all waters of the Strait of Juan de
Fuca.
§ 80.1390 Haro Strait and Strait
of Georgia.
The 72 COLREGS shall apply on
all waters of the Haro Strait and
the Strait of Georgia.
§ 80.1395 Puget Sound and
Adjacent Waters.
The 72 COLREGS shall apply on
all waters of Puget Sound and
adjacent waters, including Lake
Union, Lake Washington, Hood
Canal, and all tributaries.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Thanks for the education

 

[twistedtree]

Most all of us will spend most time subject to International COLREGS. The demarcation line where Inland takes effect are shown on the charts. Unless you live your life in the US river system, you will be predominantly subject to International.

 

[psneeld]

Most all of us will spend most time subject to International COLREGS. The demarcation line where Inland takes effect are shown on the charts. Unless you live your life in the US river system, you will be predominantly subject to International.

Are you considering all ICW waters, Cape Cod bay, Long Island Sound, the Chesapeake, all waters behind the outer Banks, and the Great Lakes in the US river system?

 

[twistedtree]

Wherever the line is drawn

 

[psneeld]

Well I am not sure about most of us usually being under international colregs. Some not so much, some split, some yes.

 

[rslifkin]

Well I am not sure about most of us usually being under international colregs. Some not so much, some split, some yes.

Agreed. There are plenty on here that spend lots of time out there, but also plenty of us that are based somewhere multiple days of running away from reaching the demarcation line.

 

[ksanders]

As far as horns, try Vixen horns.

You can get any sound you like.

I just bought a 145 DB air raid siren as a new security system siren, and a neighbor heard it from a bit over a mile away during a test.

 

[syjos]

I guess I don't understand the fascination with non regulation horns. Train, truck, Harbor Freight horns?

A Marinco, Sea Dog, AFI or any other marine air horn will be the correct frequency and at least 120 db. Which is pretty loud. If you have a large boat or want to be different buy a Khalenberg.

Not only will a marine air horn meet regulations but will survive the marine enviroment. I would not buy any marine horn that is not air operated. The electric ones have electrical components inside that will quickly corrode.

And if you want an extra loud horn, eliminate the Y that splits the air from the compressor at the base to the two trumpets and install a second compressor. It increases the volume by at least 30 to 50%

Or add a second air horn.

 

[twistedtree]

Are you considering all ICW waters, Cape Cod bay, Long Island Sound, the Chesapeake, all waters behind the outer Banks, and the Great Lakes in the US river system?

Point taken. I’ve just been more struck over the years by what’s not inland vs what is.

 

[psneeld]

Just very loud pointed only in one direction isn't always best.

2 horns, one facing forward and another aft is a better setup.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I guess I don't understand the fascination with non regulation horns. Train, truck, Harbor Freight horns?

A Marinco, Sea Dog, AFI or any other marine air horn will be the correct frequency and at least 120 db. Which is pretty loud. If you have a large boat or want to be different buy a Khalenberg.

Not only will a marine air horn meet regulations but will survive the marine enviroment. I would not buy any marine horn that is not air operated. The electric ones have electrical components inside that will quickly corrode.

And if you want an extra loud horn, eliminate the Y that splits the air from the compressor at the base to the two trumpets and install a second compressor. It increases the volume by at least 30 to 50%

Or add a second air horn.

My train chimes are within regulation, so how are they illegal?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Yeah, but doesn't the regs state something on direction of the horn and direction of travel?

Just very loud pointed only in one direction isn't always best.

2 horns, one facing forward and another aft is a better setup.

 

[rslifkin]

If direction is a concern, those with flybridges always have the option of keeping a canned horn around as a secondary. Quickly and easily pointed in any direction for those times when straight forward isn't ideal.

 

[psneeld]

Think about it.....

Yes, if only one horn, forward....but that's not the idea of a sound signal. It's for traffic all around you.

Most boaters just mount one so forward is the default.

 

[syjos]

My train chimes are within regulation, so how are they illegal?

Never said train horns are illegal.

I stated marine horns meet regulations.

 

[FF]

Folks that worry about co regs should worry far more about nav lights.


The dinky little units that are OK in the USA are a no no when offshore, or elsewhere .

 

[rslifkin]

Folks that worry about co regs should worry far more about nav lights.

The dinky little units that are OK in the USA are a no no when offshore, or elsewhere .

Agreed. One of my winter projects this year is upgrading the pathetic excuse for nav lights my boat was built with. Just enough to say "yep, it's got nav lights", but not enough to really be visible.

 

[rgano]

Folks that worry about co regs should worry far more about nav lights.


The dinky little units that are OK in the USA are a no no when offshore, or elsewhere .

Anybody who owns a boat/vessel should "worry about" the COLREGS - all the time. As discussed ad nausea here and other places, empirical evidence leads us to believe quite the opposite is the case.

As to the insinuated comparison of inland lights as dinky compared to international requirement, well, there is no difference in the visibility of masthead and sidelights in the categories of vessel 50 meters and less and 12 meters and less. See page 42 and page 43 of the COLREGS.

Even I, who is one of the most assiduous COLREGS "worriers" I know of, accepted for a time the combination "sidelight" arrangement (an abomination which should be banned from all boating) my Pilot came with and the cross-eyed crap Grand Banks put on my Classic 42 without proper screens. However, I will say in my defense that within a fairly short time I discovered and resolved the deficiencies in both boats.

 

[koliver]

Anybody who owns a boat/vessel should "worry about" the COLREGS - all the time. As discussed ad nausea here and other places, empirical evidence leads us to believe quite the opposite is the case.

As to the insinuated comparison of inland lights as dinky compared to international requirement, well, there is no difference in the visibility of masthead and sidelights in the categories of vessel 50 meters and less and 12 meters and less. See page 42 and page 43 of the COLREGS.

Even I, who is one of the most assiduous COLREGS "worriers" I know of, accepted for a time the combination "sidelight" arrangement (an abomination which should be banned from all boating) my Pilot came with and the cross-eyed crap Grand Banks put on my Classic 42 without proper screens. However, I will say in my defense that within a fairly short time I discovered and resolved the deficiencies in both boats.

One of the most frequent deficiencies I find when doing safety inspections (mandatory in my YC) is the failure of old nav lights to transit enough light to be seen at the required distances. Those old plastic lenses become opaque and need to be replaced. Often the easiest is to replace the whole fixture.

 

[rgano]

When I was conducting safety inspections as a USPS/USCG Aux safety inspector I found that some manufacturers mount that stupid combination red/green sidelight fixture under the bow pulpit. Do you know how easy it is to get the lens in backward with green to port and red to stbd?

The plastic lens issue is pretty much resolved with the newer style LED lights with no interfering plastic lens.

 

[caltexflanc]

180-2100 hz is a very broad range of frequencies. I’m pretty sure most of us would be in compliance.

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

Jim

Not really, read Annex III more carefully and thoroughly. It defines fundamental frequency of 250-525hz, and the minimum sound levels of that and various harmonic frequencies in 1/3 octave bands,

 

[caltexflanc]

Well I am not sure about most of us usually being under international colregs. Some not so much, some split, some yes.

Simple rule of thumb is when you are on the ocean, you are in international. When you are inside the inlet, you are inland. The exact position of those lines is also in the Nav Rules too towards the back, as well as on most charts.