At the risk of starting another controversy, I'll ask anyway. After owning 19 boats in the last 64 years, all with a single helm, is a lower helm station on a motor yacht just a waste of space and money? I just know I'm going to be sorry for asking this...............
Lower Helm Station
- Thread starter Barpilot
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rochepoint
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We love operating from the upper helm but when the weather and seas decide to get ugly the lower helm is the saving grace for the trip.
jleonard
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I run from the flybridge 99.9% of the time, even in inclement weather as I have an enclosure.
Conrad
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It depends.
Our previous boat had both helms, and I ran the boat virtually all the time from the upper station, come rain or shine. Much better visibility and overall situational awareness. Plus it was just nicer up there.
The downside was that often I was the only one up there as the rest of the crew would retire below to get out of the rain or shine.
(Our current boat has a pilothouse only and the crew still avoids me...)
Our previous boat had both helms, and I ran the boat virtually all the time from the upper station, come rain or shine. Much better visibility and overall situational awareness. Plus it was just nicer up there.
The downside was that often I was the only one up there as the rest of the crew would retire below to get out of the rain or shine.
(Our current boat has a pilothouse only and the crew still avoids me...)
Boydski
Senior Member
I spend far more time driving from the pilothouse than I do from the flybridge. That is probably due to our often wet & rainy weather and lots of winter cruising, but for me the flybridge is primarily only used when docking/undocking or on those rare calm and sunny days in the PNW.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. B. "...is a lower helm station on a motor yacht just a waste of space and money?"
Hmmmmm......
Mr. B. "...is a lower helm station on a motor yacht just a waste of space and money?"
Hmmmmm......
eyschulman
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different folks different strokes. I personally see a high fly bridge as a waste and poor design element meant to make up for the deficiencies of a poor pilot house helm location. My idea of a pilot helm location includes good 360 visibility in a well sheltered location as low in the boat as practical. There is also the modern mobile remote control which allows for control from any location including the dock,so why have duplicate helms. I also have a problem with 40 and 50 ft boats with high free board topped off with a deck house and then a covered fly bridge, it just does not look right to me. Obviously from the number of boats filling the above description I am part of a small minority.
markpierce
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No need for a flying bridge here.
ranger58sb
Guru
I very much prefer the improved visibility from the flying bridge.
On an earlier boat, our Mainship III, we had a lower station... and I liked having that, too. Didn't use it often, but when I wanted it I usually needed it.
We have a better bridge enclosure now than on that earlier boat, I'd prefer also having a lower station now... but it is what it is.
-Chris
On an earlier boat, our Mainship III, we had a lower station... and I liked having that, too. Didn't use it often, but when I wanted it I usually needed it.
We have a better bridge enclosure now than on that earlier boat, I'd prefer also having a lower station now... but it is what it is.
-Chris
We use the flybridge maybe 25% of the time. I just like being outside. The view from the flybridge is great. We use the boat all year long so we spend a fair amount of time at the lower helm also. And of course the PNW weather helps to keep us inside a fair percentage of the time. Longer trips, we are usually downstairs - at least most of the time. That's where the food is.
ronlord
Senior Member
Lower helm is great on very cold or very hot days. Fire up the genny and relax in a heated or cooled salon while you are piloting. Also better in rough water, don't get thrown around as much when you are lower in the boat.
That being said, we do use the flybridge helm station most of the time.
That being said, we do use the flybridge helm station most of the time.
Without a lower helm station, the tendency is for owners to enclose the flybridge with canvas. And that helps destroy sightlines for every other boater in a marina who might wish to enjoy unobstructed views of the great out of doors from their own flybridge. Biminis are fine, but the dreaded canvas canyon is something else.
From the number of enclosures I see, I think those wishing to enjoy the "sightlines" would be in the minority.
caltexflanc
Guru
For year around cruising, non-enclosed FB and a lower helm with great all around visibility and ergonomics are ideal. My boat came with a full enclosure for the FB which neither I or the immediate PO ever use in a total of 10 years. The lower helm was so nice in inclement weather, why bother? Cold or rain or heat never kept us from boating.
Outdoor-oriented living space on a boat is important to us; loved our FB as both a helm and as a place to relax and entertain. Single handling from the lower helm on the Hatt is a piece of cake. Only excuse for not boating was rough seas. We are pleasure boaters, in that order!
Outdoor-oriented living space on a boat is important to us; loved our FB as both a helm and as a place to relax and entertain. Single handling from the lower helm on the Hatt is a piece of cake. Only excuse for not boating was rough seas. We are pleasure boaters, in that order!
Doesn't change that fact that canvas (much of it ratty) clutters up a shared space. We have a full set for flybridge and sundeck and I never put it up.
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CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
No need for a flying bridge here.
I'm in your camp Mark. Is an upper helm area really necessary?
markpierce
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I'm in your camp Mark. Is an upper helm area really necessary?
Not with five opening windows and two doors in the pilothouse. Not after having exposure spending years in an open cockpit during sailing days. Not with immediate access to deck for handling docking lines (allowing self-embarking and disembarking). Not needing additional windage.
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. B. "At the risk of starting..." Too late...
Mr. B. "At the risk of starting..." Too late...
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
Barpilot, this thread promises to be a spirited one, I like it 
Now if we could only find a way to include anchor selection it would have the makings of an epic thread.
Now if we could only find a way to include anchor selection it would have the makings of an epic thread.
ranger58sb
Guru
I think I don't understand what you mean. We have a full enclosure... and it's probably comprised of about 24 square inches of Sunbrella... spread out over 10 panels around the bridge... so almost all of it is see-thru. Sightlines not particularly obscured...
Not a recommendation... or justification... just a question...
-Chris
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gwkiwi
Guru
Our last boat a Californian 35 I used the lower helm aloe especially when solo. Current boat a 49 Defever pilothouse we are 95% in the pilothouse both cold and warm weather. Fly bridge is nice for views and being able to see all your corners but inside helms are comfy and well protected.
Either way at least you are on the water.
Either way at least you are on the water.
Barpilot, this thread promises to be a spirited one, I like it
Now if we could only find a way to include anchor selection it would have the makings of an epic thread.
I have a much better view of my Manson Supreme from the Flybridge.
markpierce
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View of the Bruce is good enough from my pilothouse:
Nomad Willy
Guru
Rusty,
You mentioned your PNW weather in your last post but it says you live in CA just below your avatar. Are you up here or in CA.
And Rusty if you had a Claw you could hardly see it at all. That is the best anchor possible from a helmsman's point of view.
Having to look at the roll bar could be worth it for you as you've got what is probably the best anchor in the world.
You mentioned your PNW weather in your last post but it says you live in CA just below your avatar. Are you up here or in CA.
And Rusty if you had a Claw you could hardly see it at all. That is the best anchor possible from a helmsman's point of view.
Having to look at the roll bar could be worth it for you as you've got what is probably the best anchor in the world.
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ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
I spend far more time driving from the pilothouse than I do from the flybridge. That is probably due to our often wet & rainy weather and lots of winter cruising, but for me the flybridge is primarily only used when docking/undocking or on those rare calm and sunny days in the PNW.
Nice Pilothouse!!!
We also operate our boat from the pilothouse most of the time. I've even gotten to where I'll dock from the pilothouse most of the time as it makes for much quicker access for line handling as we almost always are tow people or singlehanding.
N4712
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Nice Pilothouse!!!
We also operate our boat from the pilothouse most of the time. I've even gotten to where I'll dock from the pilothouse most of the time as it makes for much quicker access for line handling as we almost always are tow people or singlehanding.
Not to sidetrack anything, but to the far right do I spy a forward looking sonar?
We would not purchase a boat that didn't have a lower helm. We aren't just warm weather boaters or an hour at a time. It's nice to be close to galley when on extended cruise and in rough weather or water.
Some of the sportfishing builders seem very anti lower helm. Hatteras certainly does. Then because they don't consider it essential, even though they offer it as an option, it's not especially well designed. The glass is very slanted, gets reflections and just not the best to see.
We love upper helms, but want the option to use a lower one as well.
Some of the sportfishing builders seem very anti lower helm. Hatteras certainly does. Then because they don't consider it essential, even though they offer it as an option, it's not especially well designed. The glass is very slanted, gets reflections and just not the best to see.
We love upper helms, but want the option to use a lower one as well.
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