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Old 05-08-2019, 07:16 PM   #21
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I like Magnum, Mastervolt, Outback, Victron. Which one I like best has a lot to due with what features you want. I used to be a fan of Heart and Trace until they were bought by Xantrex and the quality was sacrificed for cost. I also find that the xantrex support is lacking. I have nothing bad to say about Promariner but they are not on my preferred list, there again my opinion might change based on what features you are looking fore.

I tend to prefer units like the Magnum Inverter/charger Hybrid which can be set up to work in parallel with the power grid. These units are the top of each manufactures line.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:50 PM   #22
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Another vote for Magnum. Mine stays on 24 / 7 doesn't miss a beat. While they have a supposedly high idle draw, it can be reduce through the settings to "spool up" when it senses a load. Switching to a high efficiency apartment refrigerator saved far more electricity than the idle consumption of the inverter consumed. While idle consumption may be a factor for some, if you're planning on needing a 2,800 watt inverter, you probably have a big enough battery bank to make idle consumption a moot point.

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Old 05-08-2019, 08:58 PM   #23
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The MSH can only take one 120vac input so if you have a 240VAC generator you are always trying to find loads for the other leg to balance it. Also you can’t link it to another Inverter to boost your output. That said if 3000/125 is enough for your setup and you can spend the time going through the manual and setting up the remote they can be pretty bullet proof. Technical support is pretty responsive during working hours as well.
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:44 AM   #24
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If you are looking for low idle current draw, Mastervolt and Victron are about the only choices. I hate the Magnum I put in my RV: it has very high idle current draw, hums like a Las Vegas call girl, and the battery monitor does not monitor the battery.
My opinion is also opposite of this. Big fan of the Magnum. I have a puresine 2812. I should mention that we also had problems with our battery meter, but it's because the shunt wires were hooked up backwards! Try switching them and you might find it works the way it's supposed to.

The only problem (besides user error) that we've found is that the internal relays on the 2812 are limited to 30 amps. This means that even if you're on shore power (we have a 50-amp hookup), you can only pull 30 amps though the relays before tripping the internal circuit breaker. This actually turned out to be fine, because you get two legs at 30-amps (so 60 amps total), but it does prevent us from pulling the full 50 amps. So it's basically the same as having two 30-amp cables hooked up.

We have to be slightly more careful with running the hair dryer at the same time as the microwave and toaster oven. If it trips, you just pop down into the engine room and press the fuse reset button which isn't a big deal. The only benefit here is that limiting our 50-amp shore power to 30-amps probably reduces the chance of fire at the plugs from bad contact.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:59 AM   #25
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Our 2812 does not behave the way you describe yours. We too have a 50 amp setup and no problem pulling near 50 amps on both legs with inverter charging batteries at maximum rate. If on 30 amp cord we keep loads below 30, with trips that do occur tripping the pedestal breaker.

This is the case whether on US 220, Canadian 208 or on genset. We've never had the inverter trip during the 6 years we've had it. We do monitor and adjust loads to keep each leg's loads in the safe zone.

When not on shore power or genset running, we've never pushed the inverter to its max. We save heavy electrical uses for shore or genset times. Maybe that is why we've not tripped it.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:09 AM   #26
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Wow great info here! I should elaborate a bit more on the needs of this unit. I’ll be using it with a solar charged house bank exclusively, maybe not in the future but for now no shore power will be needed, especially since our solar system will be big enough to handle everything in theory. But, I want to leave the fridge on all the time, so a low idle current is desirable. It will see almost no load between fridge cycles for a lot of the time we are off board.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:25 AM   #27
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Do you have a hydraulic or electric windlass? We customarily run our genset when hoisting anchor, finding a very large draw down on batteries if the genset off. Not saying you need a genset but anchor retrieval is an area to plan for as you go forward.

All chain, deep PNW anchorages, sometimes a reset required and oversized anchor all conspire to drag down an electric windlass.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:32 AM   #28
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Wow great info here! I should elaborate a bit more on the needs of this unit. I’ll be using it with a solar charged house bank exclusively, maybe not in the future but for now no shore power will be needed, especially since our solar system will be big enough to handle everything in theory. But, I want to leave the fridge on all the time, so a low idle current is desirable. It will see almost no load between fridge cycles for a lot of the time we are off board.

For an inverter only, no charger, you would be very well served with a Victron Phoenix unit. Good quality, good support, decent pricing, and lots of sizing options to match your needs. IF you are still in the PNW, Fisheries now carries their products.
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:56 PM   #29
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Sea Word

Do you have a hydraulic or electric windlass? We customarily run our genset when hoisting anchor, finding a very large draw down on batteries if the genset off. Not saying you need a genset but anchor retrieval is an area to plan for as you go forward.

All chain, deep PNW anchorages, sometimes a reset required and oversized anchor all conspire to drag down an electric windlass.
That’s a great point, we don’t have any windlass now but it’s on the list of installations planned. We also don’t have a generator and I was debating wether I would install one at all. But your note on that draw makes me wonder if that is a bad idea, or if I should just rely on main engine for extra juice during anchoring sessions, which would be reasonable too since I’d only be dropping or pulling it with mains running I suspect. But I’ll plan on a little bigger house bank for that reason as well.
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:01 PM   #30
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For an inverter only, no charger, you would be very well served with a Victron Phoenix unit. Good quality, good support, decent pricing, and lots of sizing options to match your needs. IF you are still in the PNW, Fisheries now carries their products.
Thanks I’ll look it up. Looking at the mastervolts too and they seem very well suited. I’m also seeing some of these are rated for 24v inputs which might be a good idea since I’m setting up the system from scratch, I may go ahead and use 24v solar to an MPPT controller to a 4 battery series/parallel bank. Then with my main engines I’m thinking about wiring one starter battery to both engines, charged off one engine, and then have the other engines alternator dedicated to the house bank if needed. If I felt like I could get away without having AC (air cond, not alt current) , then I wouldn’t need a genie, but is that stupid? I can’t tell. I’d hate to be running genie and ac for months on end but maybe that’s what people do? I’m new to this type of boating so it’s a bit of a foreign concept having AC on a boat.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:23 PM   #31
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I have a Magnum, Mastervolt, and Victron in different boats and vehicles. Both the Mastervolt and Victron are at least a generation beyond the Magnum, perhaps two.

Whether idle current is a problem depends on whether idle current is a problem. If you are running your genset all afternoon in the anchorage, then probably not a problem. I don't and I want to leave the inverter on all the time, power just like home. If the idle power is 34 watts like the Magnum, that's 65 AH over 24 hours. As much as the refrigerator, doing nothing at all. On my similarly spec'd Mastervolt, idle power (at full inverting output) is 6 watts. On the Victron 9 watts. The Xantrex Prosine I used to have used so much idle power the fans would power up in it occasionally while idle just to keep it cool.

Both the Victron and Mastervolt are silent, until inverting at high power, then the cooling fans come on which are barely audible. The Magnum hums too loud to sleep. I have to shut it off, which does solve the idle power problem ;(. Its battery monitor electronics live on the battery side of the shunt and so doesn't account for it's own draw. Nothing you say? In a month of storage, 61 AH unaccounted for. It's just not up to the standards of the Dutch units.
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:20 PM   #32
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Interesting. Boy I’m glad I posted this query. What an avalanche of pertinent info coming! You’d think they would all steal each others good ideas and stay competitive but I guess not.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:46 AM   #33
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That’s a great point, we don’t have any windlass now but it’s on the list of installations planned. We also don’t have a generator and I was debating wether I would install one at all. But your note on that draw makes me wonder if that is a bad idea, or if I should just rely on main engine for extra juice during anchoring sessions, which would be reasonable too since I’d only be dropping or pulling it with mains running I suspect. But I’ll plan on a little bigger house bank for that reason as well.
We run our mains when retrieving, but from around 50ft, not from the depth Sunchaser may encounter. Our windlass draws about 120A. We usually run the genset during retrieve,really because the washdown pump is 240v not 12v.I won`t necessarily have the charger on but I have, and my modest panel array contributes too.
On your other thread, as you`ve space for 1200watts of panel and want to avoid genset use,fit them. That`s a theoretical 100A max per charging hour with good sun. I never see the max from mine,I expect around 50%, anything better is a bonus. With that much panel you might consider a Honda 2000 gas generator, avoiding a built diesel one. But, I like my diesel genset.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:12 AM   #34
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So after all these recommendations and advice, we can reasonable conclude,
"Whatever fulfills your needs and works for you." That is pretty much the way life works in general. SMILE
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:07 AM   #35
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I had a Magnum 2812 experience a melt down causing extensive damage to my boat in 2016. We were on a dock, Big Bay BC with no electricity, no AC devices running and we were asleep. Woke up to the smoke detector and the smell of smoke around 3 am. Boat was full of smoke that smelled like burning plastic. Though there were no flames coming out of the inverter, sparks, hot air and smoke was pouring out of the inverters grill. The inverter had not shut down or melted the fuse. I had to undo the cable at the battery to shut the unit down. It took several minutes for the inverter to stop sputtering. The exterior paint had burned off and the exterior was black..

Spent three days cleaning the boat at Squirrell Cove BC. The entire salon was covered in sticky black soot. We fortunately had a back up inverter hooked up so switching over was easy.

The Magnum inverter was still on warranty so I contacted Magnum and they said to bring it in. Magnum tech said he had never heard of one of their inverters self destruct like that. He asked questions about the size and length of the battery cable, size of fuse, size of battery bank and my installation experience. When I told him that I sold and installed inverters and I was a Magnum dealer, he backed off.

Took the inverter to Magnum in Lynnwood. Instead of going into the Magnum building, the tech told me to wait for him in the parking lot. He came out with a boxed replacement inverter and took mine into the building. I opened the replacement inverters box and the inverter had a dent on the top of the case. When the tech came out with my paperwork I pointed out the dent. He explained that warranty replacement inverters are "Remanufactured" and showed me the label identifying it as a reman. I raised a fuss since I used my inverter as a demo with clients and how was I going to explain to the client why I was demoeing a remanufactured inverter with a dent. They gave me a different undented remanufactured inverter. The tech said again that Magnum has not had any meltdowns on inverters and mine was the only one. I asked about the consequential damage to my boat and the tech refered me up the ladder to a manager, who aftrr a week of emails agreed to cover the damage repair.

A month later, I was walking across the parking lot at my yacht club, when I see a member loading a burnt up inverter into his truck. He had the same meltdown happen to him while boating. He had spoken to Magnum and of course they said that his was the first to experience a meltdown. We compared notes and the serial number on his inverter was about 50 units older than mine and installed within 6 months of each other. His was installed by an ABYC certified electrician.

Upon researching the internet, found several more instances of 2812 meltdowns on boats and RV's.

I sold the remanufactured Magnum 2812 on Craig's List immediately, severed my ties with Magnum and began selling Victron Energy inverters, which are more advanced. I had to repaint the salon and electrical space, replace all the switches, breakers, meters and wiring that was burned, melted or smoke damaged and installed a Victron inverter along with a Victron isolation transformer. My previous transformer was not damaged but I wanted to have the Victron transformer for its features.

I bought back every Magnum 2812 that I sold to clients and replaced them with an equivalent Victron inverter at no cost to my clients. Though the inverter meltdown was not my responsibility, I would have felt really bad if a client had that happen to them. Luckily, all except two inverters were owner installed and I only had to physically swap out those two. Sold all the Magnums on Craig's List.

It took me two years to complete the repairs after the fire due to health, vacations and other complications. By that time, the Lynwood Magnum office staff had been reduced. I had to contact Sensata to file my damage repair claim. They had no record of my warranty replacement. I emailed them all the emails that had been exchanged after the meltdown, the exchange invoice, an email that Magnum had sent me promising to pay for the repair. Magnum probably did not report the meltdown to parent company Sensata or lost the files during the merge. They sent me a check after some negotiating.
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:36 AM   #36
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Wow well that’s not a great review for magnum! Thanks for posting. It’s important that companies do the right thing because when we buy American that’s what we are purchasing with the extra money. If we didn’t need the extra quality and customer service that American companies provide we could just buy Chinese.

Well I found a mastervolt 24/4000 locally for 450$ so I snagged that up. It’s rated at 1w idle current, and comes with a nice remote monitor panel. More inverter than I really needed, but the price seemed great as these seem to retail for 3500+$. Also negotiating for a 1200w array that will fit on the roof, 4 panels for 640$. These are 55vdc panels, and I can wire them series/parallel to get 110v to the mppt controller. So, now I just need to figure out how to pull 12v for my appliances that require 12v.
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:43 PM   #37
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All I can say is "Yep".
Good on ya for making it right with your customers. I did something similar with cabin fans. Luckily I hadn't installed very many and the cost was nowhere near an inverter.



Quote:
Originally Posted by syjos View Post
I had a Magnum 2812 experience a melt down causing extensive damage to my boat in 2016. We were on a dock, Big Bay BC with no electricity, no AC devices running and we were asleep. Woke up to the smoke detector and the smell of smoke around 3 am. Boat was full of smoke that smelled like burning plastic. Though there were no flames coming out of the inverter, sparks, hot air and smoke was pouring out of the inverters grill. The inverter had not shut down or melted the fuse. I had to undo the cable at the battery to shut the unit down. It took several minutes for the inverter to stop sputtering. The exterior paint had burned off and the exterior was black..

Spent three days cleaning the boat at Squirrell Cove BC. The entire salon was covered in sticky black soot. We fortunately had a back up inverter hooked up so switching over was easy.

The Magnum inverter was still on warranty so I contacted Magnum and they said to bring it in. Magnum tech said he had never heard of one of their inverters self destruct like that. He asked questions about the size and length of the battery cable, size of fuse, size of battery bank and my installation experience. When I told him that I sold and installed inverters and I was a Magnum dealer, he backed off.

Took the inverter to Magnum in Lynnwood. Instead of going into the Magnum building, the tech told me to wait for him in the parking lot. He came out with a boxed replacement inverter and took mine into the building. I opened the replacement inverters box and the inverter had a dent on the top of the case. When the tech came out with my paperwork I pointed out the dent. He explained that warranty replacement inverters are "Remanufactured" and showed me the label identifying it as a reman. I raised a fuss since I used my inverter as a demo with clients and how was I going to explain to the client why I was demoeing a remanufactured inverter with a dent. They gave me a different undented remanufactured inverter. The tech said again that Magnum has not had any meltdowns on inverters and mine was the only one. I asked about the consequential damage to my boat and the tech refered me up the ladder to a manager, who aftrr a week of emails agreed to cover the damage repair.

A month later, I was walking across the parking lot at my yacht club, when I see a member loading a burnt up inverter into his truck. He had the same meltdown happen to him while boating. He had spoken to Magnum and of course they said that his was the first to experience a meltdown. We compared notes and the serial number on his inverter was about 50 units older than mine and installed within 6 months of each other. His was installed by an ABYC certified electrician.

Upon researching the internet, found several more instances of 2812 meltdowns on boats and RV's.

I sold the remanufactured Magnum 2812 on Craig's List immediately, severed my ties with Magnum and began selling Victron Energy inverters, which are more advanced. I had to repaint the salon and electrical space, replace all the switches, breakers, meters and wiring that was burned, melted or smoke damaged and installed a Victron inverter along with a Victron isolation transformer. My previous transformer was not damaged but I wanted to have the Victron transformer for its features.

I bought back every Magnum 2812 that I sold to clients and replaced them with an equivalent Victron inverter at no cost to my clients. Though the inverter meltdown was not my responsibility, I would have felt really bad if a client had that happen to them. Luckily, all except two inverters were owner installed and I only had to physically swap out those two. Sold all the Magnums on Craig's List.

It took me two years to complete the repairs after the fire due to health, vacations and other complications. By that time, the Lynwood Magnum office staff had been reduced. I had to contact Sensata to file my damage repair claim. They had no record of my warranty replacement. I emailed them all the emails that had been exchanged after the meltdown, the exchange invoice, an email that Magnum had sent me promising to pay for the repair. Magnum probably did not report the meltdown to parent company Sensata or lost the files during the merge. They sent me a check after some negotiating.
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:50 PM   #38
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Victron.....for a few reasons........they can be daisy chained
they can with shore power go the additional power
a 3000VA inverter with ONE 30 amp shore can deliver an output of 60 amp when needed
Victron integrates well with their other equipment , MPPT, charges, BMV, PLUS they their management unit the CCGX or the Venus. do NOT charge a monthly fee. I have connected my bilge pumps, door alarm, smoke alarm to this Venus and I have a remote monitoring system without a monthly charge. think how much savings that will be...besides would you not like to know that the bilge pump went on. 10 minutes ago, while having dinner at home
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:51 PM   #39
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OH and GREAT service from Victron. have their equipment on both my boats
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:07 PM   #40
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This thing is LARGE. As luck had it the seller was a dealer for magnum only. So they were off loading this unit. Came off a boat and the owner didn’t like having to go to the unit to reset it when it tripped from entire boat coming online which included 4 refer units and everything else. So I’m stoked because this seems like a very nice unit.
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