Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-13-2019, 02:09 PM   #21
Veteran Member
 
City: Victoria, BC
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-148
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,



Further. Does anyone know of a good solution to the razor sharp ends left when you trim wire ties?

I use these.

Hugely helpful in tidying up.

https://www.amazon.ca/Fastening-Cutt...s%2C214&sr=8-2

-evan
eheffa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2019, 07:14 PM   #22
Veteran Member
 
City: Anacortes
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Slight thread drift alert: I wish to add to Mr. S's testimonial (post #13)...So, you've cleaned up your wiring and secured, wrapped, fastened and wire tied the bundle together. Looks like my first picture I posted above-REALLY nice and neat....but wait! You've just acquired a new "widget". Do you undo all the fitments and neatly incorporate those new wires into the bundles or.....??????


To eliminate the possibility of "too short" wires, just how much slack does one leave?



Further. Does anyone know of a good solution to the razor sharp ends left when you trim wire ties?


Wiring!





I was a professional (at least I professed to be one) and the best way to keep the wire ties from ripping your skin to the bone is to get some nice small flush side cutters. I couldn't find really good ones at any hardware stores so bought some off the web. You can use the cutters to tighten up the wire tie by grabbing, twisting in to the tie over and over until tight, and then make sure the cutter is perpendicular to the tie and cut off the end. The end should be square and flush.

When getting on a customer boat and I had to work inside a busy area with bad wire tie ends I would often take a couple of minutes and just cut off as many as I could see where I was going to work. You can grab even a small end and tighten it a little more or just cut off the little sharp piece.
This is the one I use. It is heavy enough to cut the big wire ties and small enough to do the little ones too.


https://www.all-spec.com/Catalog/Han...ers/2175-56800
exmaggiedrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2019, 09:41 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
ORIF's Avatar
 
City: Beaufort, SC
Vessel Name: TAMI II
Vessel Model: Tollycraft, 44 CPMY
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 133
Pacer Group has several wire management options:https://www.pacergroup.net/products/wire-management/

The "expandable sleeving" listed at the bottom of the attached page under wire routing is one of my go to's. Works like Chinese finger traps and comes in long reels and varying diameters.

Not the best picture but the attachment shows the black expandable sleeving running with and zip tied to large cables from my battery chargers. Contains a new wire harness I made up to run from my 3208's to the helms. I moved a lot of wiring overhead to get it out of the bilge.

Expandable sleeving is easy to work with, although always reminds me of a rat snake moving through the ER
Attached Thumbnails
Image-1.jpg  
ORIF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 07:06 AM   #24
Veteran Member
 
hpogue123's Avatar
 
City: Noank, CT
Vessel Name: Merebeth
Vessel Model: 1987 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 75
I like to use the metal or plastic wire chases that you can even pickup at Home Depot or Loews. They come in various sizes and colors and can be strong enough to stand on. In my trawler, I have used them to surface mount on fiberglass in areas to hard or impossible to fish lines. They come with adhesive and screw mountings. I found if I clean the surface and put spots of thickened epoxy every few inches and then use their adhesive to hold while setting it's pretty bulletproof if I don't want to use screws.
Attached Thumbnails
Channel.jpg  
hpogue123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 09:55 AM   #25
Guru
 
Mule's Avatar
 
City: Fort Pierce
Vessel Name: Florita Ann
Vessel Model: 1982 Present
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,935
As a professional land based wire runner, sorter and organizer it is beyond me why Marine electricians so often insist in hard strapping long wire runs with tywraps? There are different plans and ideas contained in this string to not screw into the bulkheads... good, no doubt! But clinching down wires in long runs....into a harness... no no no. Leave the tyes loose so 2 or more fingers inserted loose. Leave a pull string behind, then when another wire is needed (inevitable) the attach the new wire to the string, along with a replacement string and pull it through. Thereby cutting and replacing mass numbers of wraps is unnecessary.
The final feed near the termination point is the time to bend it in pretty, organized runs and chinch it down for both beauty and security, such as RTís pictures. Now if you are a hourly paid Marine electrician, job security is a concern then by all means use lots of plastic ties and chinch Ďem tight and by all means leave no pull string behind.
Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 10:09 AM   #26
Veteran Member
 
City: Anacortes
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule View Post
As a professional land based wire runner, sorter and organizer it is beyond me why Marine electricians so often insist in hard strapping long wire runs with tywraps? There are different plans and ideas contained in this string to not screw into the bulkheads... good, no doubt! But clinching down wires in long runs....into a harness... no no no. Leave the tyes loose so 2 or more fingers inserted loose. Leave a pull string behind, then when another wire is needed (inevitable) the attach the new wire to the string, along with a replacement string and pull it through. Thereby cutting and replacing mass numbers of wraps is unnecessary.
The final feed near the termination point is the time to bend it in pretty, organized runs and chinch it down for both beauty and security, such as RT’s pictures. Now if you are a hourly paid Marine electrician, job security is a concern then by all means use lots of plastic ties and chinch ‘em tight and by all means leave no pull string behind.

I totally understand why you suggest loose wire ties. As an electrician running wires was always the most expensive jobs labor-wise (cost) and PITA of the job. But - you should always cinch tight wires where they terminate - at a battery, or a device. You do not want the wires to be loose so they can loosen the connection or destroy the terminals from vibration. I always would leave pull wires or string. Wires (leftover, used, whatever) are best as they are stronger and slicker. String will get caught easily at corners. Wire pulls can too but less likely.



I hated tight wire ties in hard to get places and would prefer conduit to hold the wires going through long runs in hard to get places. Cutting wire ties in easy to get locations is easy and cheap and they really make for visually nicer installations. But your suggestion works too except at terminations.


By the way, I hated those snap together gray square wire runs. They were usually hard to get off and hard to put back together and they often broke the small snap parts. If it were a choice between those and wire ties I would go with wire ties any time. But to each his own.


Also wire ties allow for adding several more wires in a run. Adding equipment later sometimes resulted in problems when the wire chase got full. They are impossible to remove and put in bigger ones and usually you can't add another to the side. I had this problem on many boats I worked on.
exmaggiedrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 12:00 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
JimW's Avatar
 
City: Pensacola
Vessel Name: CLASSEA
Vessel Model: 1988 Defever 41
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 149
Not the total solution as you still have to place them normally in a location not easy to get to . . . But the ďreusable wire tiesĒ work great as you can open them to remove or place new wires. Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2312.JPG
Views:	52
Size:	73.9 KB
ID:	88610
JimW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 12:21 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Action's Avatar
 
City: Phoenix, AZ
Vessel Name: Enigma
Vessel Model: 1997 Wellcraft Excel 26 SE
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 279
Wire ties are cheap. For situations that require wire ties, use them. When a new wire or cable is needed cut off the old tie and dispose of off vessel. Run new wire/cable and install a new wire tie. They are cheap, fast and effective. A rare combination.
__________________
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 08:30 PM   #29
Guru
 
ben2go's Avatar
 
City: Upstate,SC
Vessel Name: Shipoopi
Vessel Model: derilic sailboat
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,856
I don't like to use zip ties. In the event that something has to be pulled out it makes it a pain. Especially if stuff is added and blocks access to said zippies. I prefer conduit or wire raceway/track where possible and over size split loom.

You can get slip loom in multiple colors and sizes if you want to color code your electrical system.
https://www.amazon.com/Split-Wire-Lo...language=en_US



The thing I like about raceways is that the wiring can be brought into or out of the track where needed. A few prongs can be snipped off cleanly with a pair of cutters if needed for larger wires
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-...language=en_US

__________________
This is my signature line. There are many like it but this one is mine.

What a pain in the transom.

ben2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 09:21 PM   #30
Member
 
City: Fort lauderdale
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 6
https://www.amazon.ca/wotu-Durable-E...TYEJGD1TZGCQEN




The link above are the best cutters for tie wraps, you can make a perfect flush cut. I have used the majority of cutters this style is the best hands down.
audioshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2022, 05:29 PM   #31
Veteran Member
 
City: Sidney
Vessel Name: The Lake
Vessel Model: 42' CHB Tricabin
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 26
Is anyone using wire mesh cable trays along the ceiling of their engine rooms? Seems like an easy solution and would reduce the heat build up.

Something like:
Attached Images
 
TheLake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2022, 06:00 PM   #32
Member
 
City: St Augustine, Florida
Vessel Name: Breeze
Vessel Model: 97 Marine Trader 34/double cabin
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 6
I don't like the thought of a wire chafing and shorting out on the wire cable trays. With vibration and heat it's a bad combination. Potential fire.
Bob328 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2022, 06:06 PM   #33
Guru
 
tiltrider1's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,209
Cable Management made easy is an oxymoron. Just like Jumbo shrimp. While good cable management can be done, it will never be easy. Since I have always inherited the spaghetti from hell wiring system, I have never had a boat that had neat and tidy wiring. However, every time I need to replace something, I review all associated wiring and make sure that it is done correctly and in an organized fashion. This does improve the spaghetti mess over time.

As to zip ties. Start using the self trimming zip ties. You will never be cut by a self trimming zip tie and they require no tools.
tiltrider1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2022, 07:37 AM   #34
Guru
 
City: Olympia
Vessel Name: Rendezvous
Vessel Model: Blue water 40
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLake View Post
Is anyone using wire mesh cable trays along the ceiling of their engine rooms? Seems like an easy solution and would reduce the heat build up.

Something like:
I donít think using wire cable trays is a bad idea. Just secure any wires as they enter or exit the tray. I use the stuff all the time on industrial equipment with more vibration and movement than a boat gets. Never had any chafing issues. You can also add a tywrap here and there to keep everything from moving around.
I think just about any strategy that you actually adhere to is fine. The problem happens when you add something and donít take the time to properly route the wires with rest of the bundle.
I use a combination of panduit, conduit, and open looms. Whatever fits the situation. If you want to avoid breaking open those nicely made looms you need to include spare wires that you can access later.
I use plenty of tywraps too, but use a little tool made to tension and trim them in one easy step. Roll the trimmed end out of the way. Easy peasy.
Bmarler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2022, 07:25 AM   #35
Senior Member
 
City: St. Petersburg
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 333
@Mule #25:
The ABYC Electrical Standard and the ISO Standard require that conductors be supported along their entire length or secured at least every 18".
__________________
Charlie Johnson
ABYC Master Technician
CharlieJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2022, 09:04 AM   #36
Guru
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
City: Bethesda, MD
Vessel Name: Solstice
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 47 Eastbay FB
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLake View Post
Is anyone using wire mesh cable trays along the ceiling of their engine rooms? Seems like an easy solution and would reduce the heat build up.

Something like:
I would not use a wire grid basket like that. Too much potential for vibration to chafe through the insulation, and then you've got the whole frame to act as a conductor. Nylon/plastic raceways exist and would be a lot "less worse".
__________________
-- Bill Kearney
2005 Eastbay 47 FB - Solstice, w/Highfield CL360 tender
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2022, 12:44 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
City: Grand Rapids, MI
Vessel Name: Arcturus
Vessel Model: 1973 Concorde 41 DC
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
RTF
Good suggestion to "flame polish" the cuts....
Sorry a glass term but it works and hadnt thought of it w PVC
Works on acrylic windows etc too.
jgwinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2022, 07:18 PM   #38
Veteran Member
 
City: Modesto
Vessel Name: Sea Robin
Vessel Model: 79 Grand Banks 42 EU
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 37
When I bought Sea Robin (GB 42 E) her electrical had been unattended for several years. Here is a picture of her wheelhouse ( area which holds the breakers and various switches)
the day I bought her:

AND I DONT KNOW HOW TO ATTACH THE PHOTO IN MY IPAD 😖😖😖😖😖
IWAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2022, 07:49 PM   #39
Veteran Member
 
City: Modesto
Vessel Name: Sea Robin
Vessel Model: 79 Grand Banks 42 EU
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 37
ER Wiring

I think I figured it out, thanks to an earlier poster:

Click image for larger version

Name:	6DAFE8AB-A877-40E2-A84C-A624C638FCA4.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	122.8 KB
ID:	129728
IWAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2022, 07:55 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Action's Avatar
 
City: Phoenix, AZ
Vessel Name: Enigma
Vessel Model: 1997 Wellcraft Excel 26 SE
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWAB View Post
I think I figured it out, thanks to an earlier poster:

Attachment 129728
Glad you did, because I was looking for the meat balls and marinara.

Action
__________________
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012