Furuno and Navionics

[Helmsman]

Looks like Navionics won’t be part of the Furuno map package after March 25th. A Furuno tech I spoke with told me that if you already have it loaded on your. Chart plotter, that it will remain but will not be updated after that. So, if you use Navionics on Furuno, you might want to update before that date to get the latest changes.

 

[clburti]

New to Furuno

I'm new to Furuno and just beginning to learn its idiosyncrasies. If I have a Furuno Navionics plotter, will I have to replace it in order to update charts in the future?

 

[FWT]

Wow

Garmin not playing nice?

The Simrad auto route capability is built on Navionics. You have to have Navionics to do it. Wondering if they are getting screwed too?

 

[FWT]

https://boatingindustry.com/news/2022/01/20/garmin-navionics-announce-new-cartography-for-chartplotters/

Must be related. Perhaps some new format won't display on Furuno. Or something.

 

[Helmsman]

I think they are combining active captain and Navionics. You should still be able to autoroute in the Navionics app, then export the gpx file. Then import to CMaps or other navigation software.

 

[Barking Sands]

Yeah Garmin just announced The new software Navionics Vision+. It comes with a 1 year subscription with daily updates. After 1 year I think its $14 a month for the updates. You can just do the subscription for the Navionics portion? Maybe you can buy the Navionics subscription for updates?

Its not backwards compatible with many older Garmins either. Since I just bought a new Garmin I went ahead and purchased this last week. Says 2 weeks to ship. Looks like they are trying to clean up all the loose ends they acquired and finally make everything centered around Garmin. It was an odd arrangement before.

**edit***I just read a bunch of stuff and I still don't quite get what's going on.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/c/marine-cartography/navionics/

 

[DDW]

Just another example of Garmin ruining a product they bought. Don't worry, they will ruin it for their own customers as well. Navico owns C-Map, Raymarine has kinda-sorta started their own thing. Wonder what Furuno's long term plan is?

 

[Nancy n Larry]

Very interesting thread! Hope someone can chime in with more info on this topic since I’m in the market for elections for a new build.

 

[bowball]

Why I won’t support Garmin.

 

[Nancy n Larry]

Why I won’t support Garmin.

So which electronics suite do you support? Thanks

 

[Helmsman]

Just another example of Garmin ruining a product they bought. Don't worry, they will ruin it for their own customers as well. Navico owns C-Map, Raymarine has kinda-sorta started their own thing. Wonder what Furuno's long term plan is?

I read somewhere yesterday that Furuno will be coming out with something within the next year. Meanwhile, their suite of charts they currently provide is pretty exhaustive. I am not too concerned about it, though I liked Navionics and will probably use it as a backup chart on my tablet, if I don’t go with Aquamaps.

 

[FWT]

The hard part is that buyers right now have to read tea leaves as to what the gear WILL be, and bet tens of thousands on the bet.

The sellers are not helping at all by failing to lay out a planned path.

 

[ranger58sb]

I'm new to Furuno and just beginning to learn its idiosyncrasies. If I have a Furuno Navionics plotter, will I have to replace it in order to update charts in the future?

Might depend on which Furuno product you have, and where you are. The one we had on the last boat could use U.S. NOAA charts for free, and optional Navionics and C-Map charts at extra cost. It was just an easy switch to load one or another.

-Chris

 

[Helmsman]

Might depend on which Furuno product you have, and where you are. The one we had on the last boat could use U.S. NOAA charts for free, and optional Navionics and C-Map charts at extra cost. It was just an easy switch to load one or another.

-Chris

Yes, there are still free charts on Furuno, as well as C Map. I would wager that they will have a new interactive product to compete with Garmin shortly. Garmin allowing other vendors to use Navionics would probably have slowed their development, which appears to be to combine Active Captain and Navionics into the operating system. With the Cortex now, and their radar, the idea is probably to have all of it interact seamlessly to one day autopilot the boat from destination to destination with almost no interaction from the captain. Add to that digital switching to automatically change conditions on the boat, and you have a boat as user easy as it can be. It also means eventually that boat electronics won’t be as easy to work on, and the failure of one part may impact all others.

The advent of the NMEA OneNet standard is an enabler for a much more complex operating system than we have today, with many more capabilities. Of course, with Garmin (or any vendor) having that much more control over your systems, they can sunset at will (even more aggressively than they do now), keep small developers at bay, and stifle competition. We should all hope that the other vendors truly understand the threat and move aggressively to counter it. I am not too concerned about Furuno with their commercial market, but would be concerned about Raymarine with their constant orphan status with FLiR. No opinion on Simrad because I havent studied them.

The point is that if you are buying in the next year or so, like some of us are, it makes for a more complicated decision. I am happy with my decision to buy Furuno, and hope to get many years of service from them, since their track record is to continue service on older equipment. They aren’t immune to change, but their past philosophy is more in line with mine and they have the resources to do battle if need be.

 

[twistedtree]

Garmin claims to still offer Navionics Chart Cards (SD cards) for a bunch of non-garmin products including all the Navico brands (Simrad, B&G, Lowrance) and Raymarine.


So I suspect part of the issue with Furuno is that they don't use the Chart Cards, but instead take the chart data and convert it into their own proprietary format. They do this for all types of charts including NOAA, C-Map, international standard S-57 charts, etc. MapMedia is the entity that does the conversion and distribution and is all part of the Fununo, MaxSea, Nobletec, TimeZero, Mapmedia schmear of companies. That's the only reason I can think of why Furuno would have been singled out, other than a good old fashion screw job to your competitor.

 

[danderer]

Or perhaps the shoe has simply yet to drop on those other distributions.

 

[angus99]

I wish AquaMaps could run or be mirrored on Furuno MFDs . . . or can it?

 

[bowball]

So which electronics suite do you support? Thanks

I went Furuno. One of my experienced friends prefers Garmin though.

 

[FWT]

With an expensive electronics decision ahead of me with a new build of a H38, this news has been eating at me.

The #1 function of a MFD / chartplotter is to display charts. Navionics, now owned by Garmin, is either pushing out Furuno or Furuno chooses to not go along. To buyers / users it doesn't matter which if it won't be there.

That leaves Furuno with C-Map. C-Map is now owned by Navico (Simrad, etc) which is turn in the process of being bought by Brunswick. One choice for Furuno. Vulnerable.

Simrad's version of C-Map is building out a capability of collecting bathometry data collected and uploaded by users. The data collection on a route pass is somewhat narrow, and when I look at popular routes on the Chesapeake the bathometry area collected so far is pretty limited. This data isn't available on the C-Map version available to Furuno users. So Navico / Simrad are already creating something of a walled garden of their own inside of C-Map.

Furuno users have what appears to be a functionally superior bathometry option with a MUCH wider field of data collection per pass. However, this requires a subscription to TimeZero and some additional hardware. The cost of that, if I understand the specs, is amazingly high and equals or exceeds the cost of the MFD itself. Nifty capability, but not cost-effective for many.

I have come to like the Furuno option for a host of reasons, but what is really bugging me is their vulnerability to having access to a good chart package.

Bottom line is that confidence in chart data availability in the future narrows the field to Garmin and Simrad, much as I had come over more to the Furuno side.

What am I missing? I am not confident I am seeing this correctly. If I can see that, Furuno can too. Solutions ahead?

 

[angus99]

With an expensive electronics decision ahead of me with a new build of a H38, this news has been eating at me.

The #1 function of a MFD / chartplotter is to display charts. Navionics, now owned by Garmin, is either pushing out Furuno or Furuno chooses to not go along. To buyers / users it doesn't matter which if it won't be there.

That leaves Furuno with C-Map. C-Map is now owned by Navico (Simrad, etc) which is turn in the process of being bought by Brunswick. One choice for Furuno. Vulnerable.

Simrad's version of C-Map is building out a capability of collecting bathometry data collected and uploaded by users. The data collection on a route pass is somewhat narrow, and when I look at popular routes on the Chesapeake the bathometry area collected so far is pretty limited. This data isn't available on the C-Map version available to Furuno users. So Navico / Simrad are already creating something of a walled garden of their own inside of C-Map.

Furuno users have what appears to be a functionally superior bathometry option with a MUCH wider field of data collection per pass. However, this requires a subscription to TimeZero and some additional hardware. The cost of that, if I understand the specs, is amazingly high and equals or exceeds the cost of the MFD itself. Nifty capability, but not cost-effective for many.

I have come to like the Furuno option for a host of reasons, but what is really bugging me is their vulnerability to having access to a good chart package.

Bottom line is that confidence in chart data availability in the future narrows the field to Garmin and Simrad, much as I had come over more to the Furuno side.

What am I missing? I am not confident I am seeing this correctly. If I can see that, Furuno can too. Solutions ahead?

Agreed. See post 17.

 

[FWT]

Agreed. See post 17.

I don't know much about AquaMaps, but it appears to be just an app to display basic NOAA / govt maps. Heck, maybe that's what they all rely on, with just slicker interface / display options.

The govt is degrading GPS capabilities. Anyone have any insight on degrading charting?

Is the bathometry initiatives by Simrad and Furuno / TimeZero an effort to get ahead of govt chart degradation, and that dependency? Is Garmin really the one that needs to up their game too?

More questions than answers.

 

[Njlarry]

Loved Navionics, hate garmin, never had any interest in active captian. Will now wait on new chartplotter till the dust settles. Love Furuno for their legacy support was leaning to sitex snd ray for much lower cost. Im old school, like to actively navigate so no interest in network functions.

 

[rslifkin]

I like the look and feel of the Navionics charts better than some of the other electronics charts, but there's no way I'd buy Garmin just for the charts. This definitely sucks, and I'm curious to see what Furuno does to keep multiple options open in the future for charts.

 

[catalinajack]

I like the look and feel of the Navionics charts better than some of the other electronics charts, but there's no way I'd buy Garmin just for the charts. This definitely sucks, and I'm curious to see what Furuno does to keep multiple options open in the future for charts.

Lots of bad deduction here. Navionics will continue to be avaible to non-Garmin MFDs. The good thing here is that Navionics will now be available for Garmin MFDs although the cards will not be compatible with other brands. There is no need for panic guys.

 

[rslifkin]

Lots of bad deduction here. Navionics will continue to be avaible to non-Garmin MFDs. The good thing here is that Navionics will now be available for Garmin MFDs although the cards will not be compatible with other brands. There is no need for panic guys.

Only to some non-Garmin MFDs, it seems like, as it will no longer be available to Furuno users.

 

[Helmsman]

With an expensive electronics decision ahead of me with a new build of a H38, this news has been eating at me.

The #1 function of a MFD / chartplotter is to display charts. Navionics, now owned by Garmin, is either pushing out Furuno or Furuno chooses to not go along. To buyers / users it doesn't matter which if it won't be there.

That leaves Furuno with C-Map. C-Map is now owned by Navico (Simrad, etc) which is turn in the process of being bought by Brunswick. One choice for Furuno. Vulnerable.

Simrad's version of C-Map is building out a capability of collecting bathometry data collected and uploaded by users. The data collection on a route pass is somewhat narrow, and when I look at popular routes on the Chesapeake the bathometry area collected so far is pretty limited. This data isn't available on the C-Map version available to Furuno users. So Navico / Simrad are already creating something of a walled garden of their own inside of C-Map.

Furuno users have what appears to be a functionally superior bathometry option with a MUCH wider field of data collection per pass. However, this requires a subscription to TimeZero and some additional hardware. The cost of that, if I understand the specs, is amazingly high and equals or exceeds the cost of the MFD itself. Nifty capability, but not cost-effective for many.

I have come to like the Furuno option for a host of reasons, but what is really bugging me is their vulnerability to having access to a good chart package.

Bottom line is that confidence in chart data availability in the future narrows the field to Garmin and Simrad, much as I had come over more to the Furuno side.

What am I missing? I am not confident I am seeing this correctly. If I can see that, Furuno can too. Solutions ahead?

I have left a message with Furuno today. We will see what I get back. Bear in mind that MapMedia updates charts semi annually or annually. There are three choices for vector charts with Furuno/Mapmedia for the US market.

Navionics (sun setting in March though still available and useable after that date if your chart plotter comes with it. You would just need to unlock it $250) . Since I have already received my CP’s, it was confirmed by Furuno that I have access to them, so I should be good for a year or two. You will want to check with them when you order.

C Map which is one I haven’t used, so I will be digging into those shortly. ($250 to $500) There is also availability for other ares such as the Bahamas.

And “NOAA Vector Charts & USACE Inland Charts” which are $500 but cover all of the areas in the continental US an east coaster is likely to travel in. I also haven’t used these but will also look into it, as it covers the most area of all the vector chart options.

I still feel really good about the Furuno choice. I don’t care for the sun setting of equipment that Garmin has done in the past. Raymarine got me on that in 2017 and that, along with their infuriating interface, convinced me to never use them in the future. That isn’t a knock on either vendor. There are pluses and minuses to all of them. I also like the quality support I have received from Furuno so far. I will need to get used to other charts, such as CMaps. Not a problem as long as they are accurate where I cruise. I will still have the Navionics app on a tablet. I don’t use autorouting much, but may more in the future, with the appropriate oversight and adjustment. The gpx route files created can be still be used in the CP’s since they are data points, not a chart. Just a question of exporting and importing them.

 

[wkearney99]

So, purchase after March won't work, but how long will there be updates for a TZT3 setup?

 

[twistedtree]

Keep in mind that with Garmin you have no choice of charts at all. It’s just Garmins charts. Yes, they now incorporate Navionics data which surely improves on what they had before, but you are still 100% captive to what Garmin produces.

Furuno has always had the widest choice of charts, though now reduced by 1.

In the US, I think the NOAA charts are the best, and are the basis for Navionics and C-Map. I’ll take the NOAA charts any day, hands down. What surprises me is that they cost anything on Furuno. They were always free, including updates. Perhaps by rolling in the inland charts they are now charging? I would check, and be surprised if the NOAA charts aren’t still available stand alone for free.

 

[Helmsman]

So, purchase after March won't work, but how long will there be updates for a TZT3 setup?

My understanding from the Furuno technician is that the charts that are available to unlock on your CP will be available any time you wish to unlock them. The way I think about them is that they will be frozen in time at the date of the last update that MapMedia performed for the particular chart you are updating. Since Navionics and Garmin’s relationship is ending on 3/25/22 we know that no updates to chart information will be available after that.

I would imagine that sometime in the future, as software changes that the maps would no longer be available. Not sure when that might be. I read somewhere that Furuno is working on something to replace Navionics but don’t know if that is truly accurate. I imagine it would be since they have a huge installed base they want to keep happy.

 

[Helmsman]

Keep in mind that with Garmin you have no choice of charts at all. It’s just Garmins charts. Yes, they now incorporate Navionics data which surely improves on what they had before, but you are still 100% captive to what Garmin produces.

Furuno has always had the widest choice of charts, though now reduced by 1.

In the US, I think the NOAA charts are the best, and are the basis for Navionics and C-Map. I’ll take the NOAA charts any day, hands down. What surprises me is that they cost anything on Furuno. They were always free, including updates. Perhaps by rolling in the inland charts they are now charging? I would check, and be surprised if the NOAA charts aren’t still available stand alone for free.

Twisted, you may already know this, but for others following the posts. Here is a complete list of Furuno chart offerings. If you start to purchase one you will get the price. https://mytimezero.com/charts-catalog/list