Furuno or Garmin

[RickyD]

Ok, seriously now. My old Raymarine E120 backlight is starting to fail. I was on a 16 hour cruise and it is no fun when you can't read your chart plotter and radar on and off. I looked at the "fix your Raymarine backlight" youtube and no, I can't get into that project. So I had the old Raymarine and it was fine for me for the most part. My brother has a 3 year old Simrad system that he likes. Never had Garmin. I'm checking out Furuno. I need to pull the trigger quickly as parts are scarce. Do I close my eyes and jump for any of them?? They all look good on paper. They all say they have the best of everything.

 

[wkearney99]

I put a pair of TZT16 units in my EB47 this past winter. One up on the flybridge, one down at the salon station. I've been pleased with them. This to replace two of the four Furuno MFD12 units I had. The TZT3 are MUCH faster than the old MFD12 displays. Fast enough to easily jump between different content without tedious redraw delays. I kept the two MFD units in place, mainly to allow having a second screen to leave raster charts visible at a different resolution. This has been "less necessary" than it was back with just MFD12s.

I have a mix of various vendors for sensors, all on the NMEA-2000 network. With the addition of an SCX-20 sat compass I don't really need to have my other GPS-330B on the network, nor the PG-700 heading unit. But I keep 'em connected and live just to be able to select them as sources should something go wrong with the SCX-20. My old FA-50 AIS worked with no change. I did have to add an NMEA-0183 link from it to the old MFD12 setup as Furuno specifically prohibits using TZT3 and MFD12 chart plotters on the same Ethernet network. This is an understandable limitation and not hard to work around as now my MFD12 are just direct-wired to each other, since there's no other Ethernet devices for them to use (radar is also TZT3-only).

Radar is a Furuno also. Most vendor radar only works with their chartplotters, so this was a foregone selection.

My complaints are pretty trivial. I wish I could scale up the text for depths larger, without also scaling up the navigation markers. When using an HDMI input, the anchor watch databar at the top stays overlaid. The graphics used for Fusion radio integration are pretty perfunctory (bordering on ugly).

There's quirks on all the systems but I'm overall very pleased with the TZT3 units.

As you move forward it's worth balancing the hassles of trying to keep existing accessories/sensors versus replacing them with new ones. By the time you lash together all manner of NMEA-0183 and Seatalk adapters you end up with various limitations and possibly creep close to the cost of new anyway. So "it depends" on what you've got in there already, and how well it functions. Just don't go into the adventure fixated on retaining the old gear until you've weighed all the options.

 

[bowball]

I just ordered full Furuno after contemplating Garmin.

 

[RickyD]

I put a pair of TZT16 units in my EB47 this past winter. One up on the flybridge, one down at the salon station. I've been pleased with them. This to replace two of the four Furuno MFD12 units I had. The TZT3 are MUCH faster than the old MFD12 displays. Fast enough to easily jump between different content without tedious redraw delays. I kept the two MFD units in place, mainly to allow having a second screen to leave raster charts visible at a different resolution. This has been "less necessary" than it was back with just MFD12s.

I have a mix of various vendors for sensors, all on the NMEA-2000 network. With the addition of an SCX-20 sat compass I don't really need to have my other GPS-330B on the network, nor the PG-700 heading unit. But I keep 'em connected and live just to be able to select them as sources should something go wrong with the SCX-20. My old FA-50 AIS worked with no change. I did have to add an NMEA-0183 link from it to the old MFD12 setup as Furuno specifically prohibits using TZT3 and MFD12 chart plotters on the same Ethernet network. This is an understandable limitation and not hard to work around as now my MFD12 are just direct-wired to each other, since there's no other Ethernet devices for them to use (radar is also TZT3-only).

Radar is a Furuno also. Most vendor radar only works with their chartplotters, so this was a foregone selection.

My complaints are pretty trivial. I wish I could scale up the text for depths larger, without also scaling up the navigation markers. When using an HDMI input, the anchor watch databar at the top stays overlaid. The graphics used for Fusion radio integration are pretty perfunctory (bordering on ugly).

There's quirks on all the systems but I'm overall very pleased with the TZT3 units.

As you move forward it's worth balancing the hassles of trying to keep existing accessories/sensors versus replacing them with new ones. By the time you lash together all manner of NMEA-0183 and Seatalk adapters you end up with various limitations and possibly creep close to the cost of new anyway. So "it depends" on what you've got in there already, and how well it functions. Just don't go into the adventure fixated on retaining the old gear until you've weighed all the options.

Thanks Bill. One of the things I would like to change is the go to waypoint precise routing. It annoys me when I have to dodge a big kelp patty or even more a freighter and then my current system tries to get me quickly back on an exact previous track by changing directions and getting back on line. I would have to quit my "Go To" and start over. Since I am mostly running in open ocean when going to a waypoint, I would rather have a command that says "Go To That Waypoint From Here". Can the Furuno do that?

 

[Seevee]

Furuno has good stuff and seems to be the choice on this thread......


I called them and they told me they did not have any sort of autorouting, which I've used with Simrad and loved.... no brainer for me.


However, had Garmin already on the boat, so added 2 displays, auto pilot and radar with Garmin and happy...


Over the years, for car, aviation and boating, Garmin's support is second to none and that's a huge deal.

 

[RickyD]

Auto routing is not a big deal for me. Really I just want to be able to reset my "from" position while keeping my "to" point the same, easily.

 

[twistedtree]

Thanks Bill. One of the things I would like to change is the go to waypoint precise routing. It annoys me when I have to dodge a big kelp patty or even more a freighter and then my current system tries to get me quickly back on an exact previous track by changing directions and getting back on line. I would have to quit my "Go To" and start over. Since I am mostly running in open ocean when going to a waypoint, I would rather have a command that says "Go To That Waypoint From Here". Can the Furuno do that?

Take a look for "Reset XTE", or "Reset cross track error". I think that's what you are looking for. It resets your track line from your current position to the active waypoint.

 

[RickyD]

Take a look for "Reset XTE", or "Reset cross track error". I think that's what you are looking for. It resets your track line from your current position to the active waypoint.

I saw that but I don't think it was on the Furuno

 

[ofer]

I saw that but I don't think it was on the Furuno

reset XTE is definitely on Furuno and pretty much all gps units.

 

[BandB]

Furuno has good stuff and seems to be the choice on this thread......


I called them and they told me they did not have any sort of autorouting, which I've used with Simrad and loved.... no brainer for me.


However, had Garmin already on the boat, so added 2 displays, auto pilot and radar with Garmin and happy...


Over the years, for car, aviation and boating, Garmin's support is second to none and that's a huge deal.

An easy solution with Furuno is to go with TimeZero for the auto routing. However, you have Garmin and you're happy and we were fine on the boat we had it on.

 

[Seevee]

An easy solution with Furuno is to go with TimeZero for the auto routing. However, you have Garmin and you're happy and we were fine on the boat we had it on.

I assume TimeZero runs on the Furuno plotter? Also, looks like a app for a Windows machine?



I don't know why the Furuno guy never mentioned it when I asked him about charting and auto routing. Furuno was really high on my list, but after having auto routing, I'd be hard pressed to do without.

 

[ranger58sb]

I assume TimeZero runs on the Furuno plotter? Also, looks like a app for a Windows machine?

I don't know why the Furuno guy never mentioned it when I asked him about charting and auto routing. Furuno was really high on my list, but after having auto routing, I'd be hard pressed to do without.

Our old TimeZero did NOT run directly on our older Furuno NN3D MFD.

It's essentially the same software engine the NN3D uses, though, and that's why we had TZ too. Our TZ ran on a laptop, but if it would do autorouting it would have been very easy to transfer the route to the MFD via SD card. This all before marine WiFi was invented.

I dunno that TZ would do autorouting, but a) our old TZ was version 2.something or other and b) I wouldn't have ever tried to do autorouting anyway, so may not have discovered that.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

Our new ride came with the previous generation Garmin 7612xsv, including radar and depth, an older Raymarine AP not connected to the plotter, an older ICOM VHF not connected to a GPS... and some other broken stuff.

The Garmin system needed both software and chart updates. Garmin support on that was good, and the updates were easy. (Only had that one contact so far, so not an in-depth comparison, but I'd say that once was equal to Furuno response on the few times we've needed help or info from them.)

I don't have a huge amount of time on the Garmin system yet. I've discovered (proved) I can't reliably touch a specific icon on the chart, even including the + or - sizing icon. Even in dead calm water, or even at the dock. We have no hard buttons as alternatives, so sometimes recovering from a mis-touch (?) takes a bit of time/work.

The charts are OK. Deciding how much data to display comes with some odd choices; "normal" doesn't display some I'd like to see, the next level up shows way more than I usually want to deal with. I miss having raster charts (as we did with our previous Furuno NN3D system) but then I guess USCG is phasing those out so I would have to bite that bullet eventually anyway.

Apparently Garmin chart updates occur "occasionally". Ours had G2 charts, and I updated to the current G3, at no cost. No clue how long these charts will still be considered current. Seems like these charts cover "everywhere" (at least for us). I was more comfortable I think with the "at least annual" NOAA chart updates we downloaded, free, with the Furuno system. I've read Explorer Charts are semi-mandatory in the Bahamas, but I didn't see a way to get those on the Garmin (but then I didn't spend a lot of time researching that, either), whereas they would have been available on the Furuno system via the optional C-Map charts I could have added.

I generally prefer having radar displayed on a separate screen, but gaining the ability to overlay radar on the nav chart is a nifty option and we actually used that to good effect a couple of times in heavy thunderstorms. Color radar is also nifty. I haven't focused on learning the tuning options on the Garmin yet.

We noticed some existing nav aids were missing from the chart... or maybe it was a function of whatever scale we were in at the time.

The 7612xsv looks like it's 5 years old, and reading suggests Garmin support will tail off fairly quickly... if so, that'd be unlike what we experienced with Furuno and their support for a couple of the (now) 18-year-old components we inherited on the previous boat.

After I think about it for a while, I'll sort out our complete system-to-be. Another depth finder (or maybe fishfinder), another MFD, AIS... plus another VHF and a loud hailer... with everything actually connected as necessary...

Excepting radios, that build-out could end up being all Furuno (bag the Garmin stuff), or mix-and-match Furuno and Garmin, or more likely all Garmin simply because of the cost of replacing a functioning radar.

But I won't be jumping into that immediately, giving myself more time to use this boat and think about it all, first...

-Chris

 

[BandB]

Our old TimeZero did NOT run directly on our older Furuno NN3D MFD.

It's essentially the same software engine the NN3D uses, though, and that's why we had TZ too. Our TZ ran on a laptop, but if it would do autorouting it would have been very easy to transfer the route to the MFD via SD card. This all before marine WiFi was invented.

I dunno that TZ would do autorouting, but a) our old TZ was version 2.something or other and b) I wouldn't have ever tried to do autorouting anyway, so may not have discovered that.

-Chris

Time Zero runs on laptops but interfaces with Furuno. It does have autorouting.

 

[BandB]

New for Garmin too and a great product is their Surround View Camera System. It's no different than on many cars today. Next step can only be automated docking but that's a bit more complicated than cars. Still having the outline of where your boat is relative to the docks is a great feature. So convenient, especially if you are docking stern-to. It's basically six cameras set up in a system together.

We've used a similar system. At first you say you don't need it, and in reality you don't. But then while docking in places new to you with different obstacles around, you do find it useful. Worth the price, I don't know, as I don't know their price yet.

 

[bowball]

New for Garmin too and a great product is their Surround View Camera System. It's no different than on many cars today. Next step can only be automated docking but that's a bit more complicated than cars. Still having the outline of where your boat is relative to the docks is a great feature. So convenient, especially if you are docking stern-to. It's basically six cameras set up in a system together.

We've used a similar system. At first you say you don't need it, and in reality you don't. But then while docking in places new to you with different obstacles around, you do find it useful. Worth the price, I don't know, as I don't know their price yet.

Looks cool but requires “ six through-hull mounted cameras”!

 

[RickyD]

Ok, here is my plan for Furuno:

TZT3-16F MFD
NXT 24 Dome Radar
711C Autopilot
B275LHW-12 Transducer
SCX20 Antenna/Satellite Compass

Not cheap but should be good for a while. I looked at Simrad, Raymarine, Garmin. I liked the Simrad dual band radar. I'm expecting the NXT24 to be much better than my 1995 Raymarine which has trouble seeing small close targets when I have it set at 12nm or more. I need to go to 3nm or closer to see those small targets. I know the Simrad picks them up beautifully. For everything else I like Furuno. Can anyone tell me about seeing small close targets on the Furuno domes. I can't justify an open array at more than twice the price when I don't need 72 miles on the radar screen.

 

[ranger58sb]

Can anyone tell me about seeing small close targets on the Furuno domes. I can't justify an open array at more than twice the price when I don't need 72 miles on the radar screen.

Can't speak from experience to newer dome versions, but the 18 year old (now) Furuno 64 NM open array we had on the last boat could see our planer boards about 60 ft off the quarters when we were trolling.

Would guess their newer units, open or closed, would be much better...

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

The 24" Furuno NXT dome has a great reputation. If you don't need the longer range or sightly tighter beam width of the open arrays, get the dome at a fraction of the price. If you know the Simrad Halo is sufficient, the NXT should be comparable in performance from what I know (and with the benefit of real ARPA)

 

[Conrad]

Looks cool but requires “ six through-hull mounted cameras”!

He didn't say through hull mounted.

Although the cameras are through hull, they are above the waterline so are not fraught with the usual underwater through hulls risks.

Heck, I've seen many boats (Tollycraft) with shore power inlets mounted on the outside of the hulls.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/SurroundView/

 

[wkearney99]

He didn't say through hull mounted.
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/SurroundView/

Uh, their website literally says 'thru-hull'

Thru-hull OEM installation offers secure fit and calibration of the Surround View Camera System.

I toyed with the idea of using an RV/truck system to accomplish something similar.

 

[twistedtree]

Ok, here is my plan for Furuno:

TZT3-16F MFD
NXT 24 Dome Radar
711C Autopilot
B275LHW-12 Transducer
SCX20 Antenna/Satellite Compass

Not cheap but should be good for a while. I looked at Simrad, Raymarine, Garmin. I liked the Simrad dual band radar. I'm expecting the NXT24 to be much better than my 1995 Raymarine which has trouble seeing small close targets when I have it set at 12nm or more. I need to go to 3nm or closer to see those small targets. I know the Simrad picks them up beautifully. For everything else I like Furuno. Can anyone tell me about seeing small close targets on the Furuno domes. I can't justify an open array at more than twice the price when I don't need 72 miles on the radar screen.

I can't speak to the doppler NXT dome, but I have used several Furuno pulse domes and they are vastly superior to simrad 4G.

 

[twistedtree]

He didn't say through hull mounted.

Although the cameras are through hull, they are above the waterline so are not fraught with the usual underwater through hulls risks.

Heck, I've seen many boats (Tollycraft) with shore power inlets mounted on the outside of the hulls.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/SurroundView/

The cameras are described as "Thru-hull OEM installation", and they show a picture of one in the hull. But they are above the water line. It's also interesting that they say "OEM installation", implying this is only for new builds. I suspect there is a bunch of detail that needs to be considered on camera placement, and then a bunch of config and calibration to scale the overlays to the camera view.

 

[FWT]

Looks cool but requires “ six through-hull mounted cameras”!

Is Garmin going for the GameBoy market segment?

The obvious alternative is a lot cheaper. A pilothouse with doors. Look outside. Add a simple backup camera if needed.

 

[twistedtree]

Is Garmin going for the GameBoy market segment?

The obvious alternative is a lot cheaper. A pilothouse with doors. Look outside. Add a simple backup camera if needed.

To a certain extent, yes. We are dinosaurs. Let's face it. There are generations starting to buy boats who expect to interact with the world solely through their phone, expect self driving and self parking cars, and expect the same thing from a boat.

 

[FWT]

To a certain extent, yes. We are dinosaurs. Let's face it. There are generations starting to buy boats who expect to interact with the world solely through their phone, expect self driving and self parking cars, and expect the same thing from a boat.

You are right of course.

Future Darwin Awards candidates.

 

[MYTraveler]

Most everyone has a personal preference, and personal idiosyncrasies aside, I don't think there is a clear winner between the competing systems. Most people would be happy with either, I believe. But, my anecdotal experience is that, among experienced users of BOTH systems, there are more people with a strong preference for Furuno than there are with a strong preference for Garmin. I have had exclusively Furuno on my boats for as long as I can remember, but have a buddy that upgraded from Raymarine to Furuno a couple years ago. His system has some features mine doesn't have. (He decided on Garmin when the Garmin rep at a boat show explained that Garmin's autopilot works in reverse. Mine doesn't. In fact, if we are trolling with AP on and forget to shut it off when we get a knock down, the rudders end up hard over. Apparently, this is not a problem with Garmin.) But, I still have a strong preference for Furuno. Based on my experience on his boat, if I had spent the money on Garmin, I would probably rip it out and replace it with Furuno.

 

[bowball]

I’m currently going to have the furuno DRS6ANXT/4 Radar installed with the 48” array.

It’s the 25 watt version.

I wonder if it’s worth the extra $1,000 to get the 100 watt version. I do t need the distance but better resolution of small objects?

 

[BandB]

To a certain extent, yes. We are dinosaurs. Let's face it. There are generations starting to buy boats who expect to interact with the world solely through their phone, expect self driving and self parking cars, and expect the same thing from a boat.

I thought such systems and other accident prevention and parking assistance was silly on vehicles, but got some on a Mercedes SUV and then fully equipped on a Mercedes Sprinter in our business. Wonderful there where size is larger. Now getting systems on other corporate cars as everyone adding them.

Often technology isn't essential, but as it becomes reasonable in price, it becomes very nice to have. As to the Garmin system and the thru hulls, the similar system we had consisted of the cameras but surface mounted. We already wanted the cameras for security purposes.

 

[Hippocampus]

My biggest problem with Garmin remains their business model. You enter garmin world. Everything needs to be inside that world. This is particularly troublesome as regards charts and ancillaries.