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Old 09-10-2021, 12:32 AM   #41
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An easy solution with Furuno is to go with TimeZero for the auto routing. However, you have Garmin and you're happy and we were fine on the boat we had it on.

I assume TimeZero runs on the Furuno plotter? Also, looks like a app for a Windows machine?



I don't know why the Furuno guy never mentioned it when I asked him about charting and auto routing. Furuno was really high on my list, but after having auto routing, I'd be hard pressed to do without.
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Old 09-10-2021, 06:16 AM   #42
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I assume TimeZero runs on the Furuno plotter? Also, looks like a app for a Windows machine?

I don't know why the Furuno guy never mentioned it when I asked him about charting and auto routing. Furuno was really high on my list, but after having auto routing, I'd be hard pressed to do without.

Our old TimeZero did NOT run directly on our older Furuno NN3D MFD.

It's essentially the same software engine the NN3D uses, though, and that's why we had TZ too. Our TZ ran on a laptop, but if it would do autorouting it would have been very easy to transfer the route to the MFD via SD card. This all before marine WiFi was invented.

I dunno that TZ would do autorouting, but a) our old TZ was version 2.something or other and b) I wouldn't have ever tried to do autorouting anyway, so may not have discovered that.

-Chris
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Old 09-10-2021, 06:35 AM   #43
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Our new ride came with the previous generation Garmin 7612xsv, including radar and depth, an older Raymarine AP not connected to the plotter, an older ICOM VHF not connected to a GPS... and some other broken stuff.

The Garmin system needed both software and chart updates. Garmin support on that was good, and the updates were easy. (Only had that one contact so far, so not an in-depth comparison, but I'd say that once was equal to Furuno response on the few times we've needed help or info from them.)

I don't have a huge amount of time on the Garmin system yet. I've discovered (proved) I can't reliably touch a specific icon on the chart, even including the + or - sizing icon. Even in dead calm water, or even at the dock. We have no hard buttons as alternatives, so sometimes recovering from a mis-touch (?) takes a bit of time/work.

The charts are OK. Deciding how much data to display comes with some odd choices; "normal" doesn't display some I'd like to see, the next level up shows way more than I usually want to deal with. I miss having raster charts (as we did with our previous Furuno NN3D system) but then I guess USCG is phasing those out so I would have to bite that bullet eventually anyway.

Apparently Garmin chart updates occur "occasionally". Ours had G2 charts, and I updated to the current G3, at no cost. No clue how long these charts will still be considered current. Seems like these charts cover "everywhere" (at least for us). I was more comfortable I think with the "at least annual" NOAA chart updates we downloaded, free, with the Furuno system. I've read Explorer Charts are semi-mandatory in the Bahamas, but I didn't see a way to get those on the Garmin (but then I didn't spend a lot of time researching that, either), whereas they would have been available on the Furuno system via the optional C-Map charts I could have added.

I generally prefer having radar displayed on a separate screen, but gaining the ability to overlay radar on the nav chart is a nifty option and we actually used that to good effect a couple of times in heavy thunderstorms. Color radar is also nifty. I haven't focused on learning the tuning options on the Garmin yet.

We noticed some existing nav aids were missing from the chart... or maybe it was a function of whatever scale we were in at the time.

The 7612xsv looks like it's 5 years old, and reading suggests Garmin support will tail off fairly quickly... if so, that'd be unlike what we experienced with Furuno and their support for a couple of the (now) 18-year-old components we inherited on the previous boat.

After I think about it for a while, I'll sort out our complete system-to-be. Another depth finder (or maybe fishfinder), another MFD, AIS... plus another VHF and a loud hailer... with everything actually connected as necessary...

Excepting radios, that build-out could end up being all Furuno (bag the Garmin stuff), or mix-and-match Furuno and Garmin, or more likely all Garmin simply because of the cost of replacing a functioning radar.

But I won't be jumping into that immediately, giving myself more time to use this boat and think about it all, first...

-Chris
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Old 09-10-2021, 09:00 AM   #44
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Our old TimeZero did NOT run directly on our older Furuno NN3D MFD.

It's essentially the same software engine the NN3D uses, though, and that's why we had TZ too. Our TZ ran on a laptop, but if it would do autorouting it would have been very easy to transfer the route to the MFD via SD card. This all before marine WiFi was invented.

I dunno that TZ would do autorouting, but a) our old TZ was version 2.something or other and b) I wouldn't have ever tried to do autorouting anyway, so may not have discovered that.

-Chris
Time Zero runs on laptops but interfaces with Furuno. It does have autorouting.
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Old 09-10-2021, 09:05 AM   #45
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New for Garmin too and a great product is their Surround View Camera System. It's no different than on many cars today. Next step can only be automated docking but that's a bit more complicated than cars. Still having the outline of where your boat is relative to the docks is a great feature. So convenient, especially if you are docking stern-to. It's basically six cameras set up in a system together.

We've used a similar system. At first you say you don't need it, and in reality you don't. But then while docking in places new to you with different obstacles around, you do find it useful. Worth the price, I don't know, as I don't know their price yet.
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Old 09-10-2021, 12:00 PM   #46
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New for Garmin too and a great product is their Surround View Camera System. It's no different than on many cars today. Next step can only be automated docking but that's a bit more complicated than cars. Still having the outline of where your boat is relative to the docks is a great feature. So convenient, especially if you are docking stern-to. It's basically six cameras set up in a system together.

We've used a similar system. At first you say you don't need it, and in reality you don't. But then while docking in places new to you with different obstacles around, you do find it useful. Worth the price, I don't know, as I don't know their price yet.
Looks cool but requires “ six through-hull mounted cameras”!
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Old 09-10-2021, 01:28 PM   #47
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Ok, here is my plan for Furuno:

TZT3-16F MFD
NXT 24 Dome Radar
711C Autopilot
B275LHW-12 Transducer
SCX20 Antenna/Satellite Compass

Not cheap but should be good for a while. I looked at Simrad, Raymarine, Garmin. I liked the Simrad dual band radar. I'm expecting the NXT24 to be much better than my 1995 Raymarine which has trouble seeing small close targets when I have it set at 12nm or more. I need to go to 3nm or closer to see those small targets. I know the Simrad picks them up beautifully. For everything else I like Furuno. Can anyone tell me about seeing small close targets on the Furuno domes. I can't justify an open array at more than twice the price when I don't need 72 miles on the radar screen.
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Old 09-10-2021, 01:49 PM   #48
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Can anyone tell me about seeing small close targets on the Furuno domes. I can't justify an open array at more than twice the price when I don't need 72 miles on the radar screen.

Can't speak from experience to newer dome versions, but the 18 year old (now) Furuno 64 NM open array we had on the last boat could see our planer boards about 60 ft off the quarters when we were trolling.

Would guess their newer units, open or closed, would be much better...

-Chris
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Old 09-10-2021, 03:11 PM   #49
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The 24" Furuno NXT dome has a great reputation. If you don't need the longer range or sightly tighter beam width of the open arrays, get the dome at a fraction of the price. If you know the Simrad Halo is sufficient, the NXT should be comparable in performance from what I know (and with the benefit of real ARPA)
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Old 09-10-2021, 04:21 PM   #50
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Looks cool but requires “ six through-hull mounted cameras”!
He didn't say through hull mounted.

Although the cameras are through hull, they are above the waterline so are not fraught with the usual underwater through hulls risks.

Heck, I've seen many boats (Tollycraft) with shore power inlets mounted on the outside of the hulls.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/SurroundView/
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Old 09-10-2021, 04:28 PM   #51
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He didn't say through hull mounted.
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/SurroundView/
Uh, their website literally says 'thru-hull'
Quote:
Thru-hull OEM installation offers secure fit and calibration of the Surround View Camera System.
I toyed with the idea of using an RV/truck system to accomplish something similar.
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Old 09-10-2021, 04:30 PM   #52
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Ok, here is my plan for Furuno:

TZT3-16F MFD
NXT 24 Dome Radar
711C Autopilot
B275LHW-12 Transducer
SCX20 Antenna/Satellite Compass

Not cheap but should be good for a while. I looked at Simrad, Raymarine, Garmin. I liked the Simrad dual band radar. I'm expecting the NXT24 to be much better than my 1995 Raymarine which has trouble seeing small close targets when I have it set at 12nm or more. I need to go to 3nm or closer to see those small targets. I know the Simrad picks them up beautifully. For everything else I like Furuno. Can anyone tell me about seeing small close targets on the Furuno domes. I can't justify an open array at more than twice the price when I don't need 72 miles on the radar screen.

I can't speak to the doppler NXT dome, but I have used several Furuno pulse domes and they are vastly superior to simrad 4G.
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Old 09-10-2021, 04:44 PM   #53
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He didn't say through hull mounted.

Although the cameras are through hull, they are above the waterline so are not fraught with the usual underwater through hulls risks.

Heck, I've seen many boats (Tollycraft) with shore power inlets mounted on the outside of the hulls.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/SurroundView/

The cameras are described as "Thru-hull OEM installation", and they show a picture of one in the hull. But they are above the water line. It's also interesting that they say "OEM installation", implying this is only for new builds. I suspect there is a bunch of detail that needs to be considered on camera placement, and then a bunch of config and calibration to scale the overlays to the camera view.
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Old 09-10-2021, 05:05 PM   #54
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Looks cool but requires “ six through-hull mounted cameras”!
Is Garmin going for the GameBoy market segment?

The obvious alternative is a lot cheaper. A pilothouse with doors. Look outside. Add a simple backup camera if needed.
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Old 09-10-2021, 05:11 PM   #55
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Is Garmin going for the GameBoy market segment?

The obvious alternative is a lot cheaper. A pilothouse with doors. Look outside. Add a simple backup camera if needed.

To a certain extent, yes. We are dinosaurs. Let's face it. There are generations starting to buy boats who expect to interact with the world solely through their phone, expect self driving and self parking cars, and expect the same thing from a boat.
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Old 09-10-2021, 07:25 PM   #56
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To a certain extent, yes. We are dinosaurs. Let's face it. There are generations starting to buy boats who expect to interact with the world solely through their phone, expect self driving and self parking cars, and expect the same thing from a boat.
You are right of course.

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Old 09-10-2021, 09:02 PM   #57
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Most everyone has a personal preference, and personal idiosyncrasies aside, I don't think there is a clear winner between the competing systems. Most people would be happy with either, I believe. But, my anecdotal experience is that, among experienced users of BOTH systems, there are more people with a strong preference for Furuno than there are with a strong preference for Garmin. I have had exclusively Furuno on my boats for as long as I can remember, but have a buddy that upgraded from Raymarine to Furuno a couple years ago. His system has some features mine doesn't have. (He decided on Garmin when the Garmin rep at a boat show explained that Garmin's autopilot works in reverse. Mine doesn't. In fact, if we are trolling with AP on and forget to shut it off when we get a knock down, the rudders end up hard over. Apparently, this is not a problem with Garmin.) But, I still have a strong preference for Furuno. Based on my experience on his boat, if I had spent the money on Garmin, I would probably rip it out and replace it with Furuno.
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Old 09-10-2021, 09:17 PM   #58
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I’m currently going to have the furuno DRS6ANXT/4 Radar installed with the 48” array.

It’s the 25 watt version.

I wonder if it’s worth the extra $1,000 to get the 100 watt version. I do t need the distance but better resolution of small objects?
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Old 09-11-2021, 01:09 AM   #59
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To a certain extent, yes. We are dinosaurs. Let's face it. There are generations starting to buy boats who expect to interact with the world solely through their phone, expect self driving and self parking cars, and expect the same thing from a boat.
I thought such systems and other accident prevention and parking assistance was silly on vehicles, but got some on a Mercedes SUV and then fully equipped on a Mercedes Sprinter in our business. Wonderful there where size is larger. Now getting systems on other corporate cars as everyone adding them.

Often technology isn't essential, but as it becomes reasonable in price, it becomes very nice to have. As to the Garmin system and the thru hulls, the similar system we had consisted of the cameras but surface mounted. We already wanted the cameras for security purposes.
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Old 09-11-2021, 08:08 AM   #60
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My biggest problem with Garmin remains their business model. You enter garmin world. Everything needs to be inside that world. This is particularly troublesome as regards charts and ancillaries.
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