FLIR to sell off Raymarine

[caltexflanc]

Idle Sunday afternoon thoughts here, but I can see there being a few potential buyers, such as JRC, Brunswick, Yamaha, whoever owns Humminbird or Maretron, Bass Pro Shops, etc.

I get a kick out of people saying a brand is or is not "intuitive". We all have our own versions of intuition. There are those who tell you how "intuitive" Apple products are. I disagree, we have a couple in the house, an iMac and Ann's iPhone. They are the least "intuitive" things we own, and we are far from being tech Luddites. We use to have three, but I threw my MacBook Pro away the last time it broke and use a much easier to figure out Chromebook. When the iPhone breaks, that's getting recycled too. We find my Motorola to be far more "intuitive" and easy to use, for us at least.

 

[Ang]

Not good news. My boat is totally Raymarine with the exception of the Vesper AIS add-on. The system is about 13 years old and i have been saving my pennies for its replacement in the next year or two. Based on the FLIR press release, assuming my new system is a Raymarine replacement is questionable.

Agree with a number of earlier comments about the viability of selling the company. Announcing to the world you are looking to divest, while not meeting your profit goals, is not the way to maximize value. It is a great way to:
-let the market place know you will likely be curtailing product development
-let you distributors know it may be time to look at other products to market
-create uncertainty with prospective buyers and diminish your revenue flow
-and of course, for employees without retention agreements, time to start looking.

I hope there is someone out there who can define a strategic play and make Raymarine a market contender.

 

[twistedtree]

As a market observer, I'd hate to see Garmin become more dominant than they are. I also wouldn't be shocked to see them as the buyer and I'd very much dislike that.

Do you think Garmin would buy them for any other reason than to extinguish them? I see no benefit to Garmin's products. But I suppose Garmin could see it as a way to buy the customer based and market share. If the price was low enough, and Garmin could actually capture and retain the customers, it might be worth it.


I went through a similar scenario many years ago in a different industry, and it didn't go well. The customers had all made a clear decision to buy what they bought (Ray, in this case). So when pushed to the acquirer's products (Garmin, in this case), they all said thanks but no thanks and went to someone else (like Furuno or Navico, in this case).


It would be a pretty big gamble, I think, but if the price were right....


Back when Ray was in the crapper I remember halfheartedly thinking I should pull together some people and buy them. Their market cap was very, very low. But that $100M in debt was a killer. It will be interesting to see what value they ultimately bring.

 

[rgano]

By the time I sold my old trawler I had incrementally updated to a Garmin radar and plotter, humminbird sounder, Sitex AP, and a cigaret pack sized AIS receiver which interfaced well to the plotter. All pretty much post 2012, and it worked well for me.

Now I have circa-2005 Furuno radar/plotter-ARPA/AP/AIS receiver/compass. I will say that while the Furuno radar in particular has many more control features like I was used to having in the Navy enabling me to get a very good radar picture, the Garmin radar, geared more to recreation, was simpler while maybe not delivering the kind of info the Furuno can generate, but NOT reliable. But the Furuno took me, a former Unlimited Tonnage Master and navy vessel commander, a bit of time and practice to understand and find all their features. I have spoken to their fine support folks on occasion to find out about disconnects between thei manual and the electronics in my dash. Their treatment of how they handle FTC without calling it that was mind twisting. I LIKE this system now that I know how to fully employ it, but even I need to keep up with my practice on it, or something will slip by. The workload handling the radar by a relatively inexperienced person could be quite distracting, but the AP and plotter and simple enough. The way the newer stuff operates sounds like they learned their lesson.

 

[catalinajack]

+1 on your Apple comments. I tried an I-pad several years ago. Never again. Having used both an I-pad and an Android Samsung tablet, I find the Samsung to be a superior product and less expensive to boot. But most folks get emotionally attached to the choices they have made and become lifelong fanboys.

TwistedTree is no fan of Simrad as he had a bad experience. I, on the other hand, installed Simrad's MFD, autopilot computer, and 4G radar. It was plug, play, and go, nary a problem. Is Furuno a better product? How could I know? I do know that at the time I purchased the Simrad products, the like Furuno equipment was far more expensive and were far beyond my means. Price points are a factor, don't you think?

As for the Simrad 4G radar, I have had only two occasions to find it useful adthat was while doing the Great Loop last season. The first was on Lake Michigan when we ran into a fogbank. There were five other Looper boats heading south in the vicinity, the closest about 1/2 mile off. Radar was on, of course. The fog cleared briefly from time to time revealing our travelling companions. It was helpful in that it verified that the blips on the radar screen were exaxtly where they ought to have been.

The second time was crossing the Gulf of Mexico from Carabelle to Tarpon Springs overnight. It turned out to be a very rough crossing such that we were unable to pilot from the flybridge. Although it was a clear night, visibility over the bow was virtually non-existent due to heavy pitching with short period waves. So, I sat on the couch with my Android tablet which displayed the radar screen from the MFD via wifi. Twice, fast-moving boats crossed our bow about one mile ahead. The radar showed those targets clearly. Both times I opened the side door next to the helm to get a clear view out what lied ahead. Sure enough, those boats were right where the radar showed. I don't know how a Furuno radar could have done any better but, again, how would I know? I do know that the Simrad radar worked just fine. And the autopilot worked its behind off all night long making addjustments to keep us on heading.

In any event, if and when it comes time to update, I will consider Furuno but only if the Simrad products die an early death however one defines that. No Garmin for me, however.

Idle Sunday afternoon thoughts here, but I can see there being a few potential buyers, such as JRC, Brunswick, Yamaha, whoever owns Humminbird or Maretron, Bass Pro Shops, etc.

I get a kick out of people saying a brand is or is not "intuitive". We all have our own versions of intuition. There are those who tell you how "intuitive" Apple products are. I disagree, we have a couple in the house, an iMac and Ann's iPhone. They are the least "intuitive" things we own, and we are far from being tech Luddites. We use to have three, but I threw my MacBook Pro away the last time it broke and use a much easier to figure out Chromebook. When the iPhone breaks, that's getting recycled too. We find my Motorola to be far more "intuitive" and easy to use, for us at least.

 

[Eddie W]

I believe Garmin will make a play for Raymarine. I believe Garmin tried to acquire them about 10 years ago, I don't recall why they didn't but Flir ended up acquiring them. It would mean one less competitor for Garmin and a chance for Garmin to get their hands on Rays R&D. Simrad or B&G could also be buyers for the same reasons but I think Garmin has deeper pockets.

 

[BandB]

I believe Garmin will make a play for Raymarine. I believe Garmin tried to acquire them about 10 years ago, I don't recall why they didn't but Flir ended up acquiring them. It would mean one less competitor for Garmin and a chance for Garmin to get their hands on Rays R&D. Simrad or B&G could also be buyers for the same reasons but I think Garmin has deeper pockets.

And Garmin is acquisition minded. Anti-trust could have been the issue before.

 

[Conrad]

Yes, I was!....Had a hell of a time years ago with their stuff. Especially their radar. Depth sounder was better than most but overall, a Furuno suite was expensive and hard to use for the first time trawler owner. I'm glad to hear that some think it's very friendly to use today but no cigar here!

I would completely agree with that assessment. We put all Furuno equipment on our previous vessel (about 10 years ago) and it was a bit of a challenge to operate, especially if you're away from the boat for any length of time. Plus, when the system was installed, every single major component failed and had to be replaced.
The Simrad system we installed on our current boat is far more intuitive although it also has its downsides.
If we ever upgrade, I'd look hard at Furuno again, particularly for its TZ, and Garmin.

 

[fryedaze]

I assume this is your opinion. Based on experience and staying at a Holiday Inn Express. I had Raymarine on my boat 10 years ago and upgraded to new Raymarine 5 years ago. I have cruised friends boats with Garmin. I don't like Garmin. The charting is no where near Navionics/Raymarine and has always been sub standard. The product is made for the game boy crowd.
OK, FIRE AT WILL[emoji33][emoji33][emoji33][emoji33][emoji33]

I don't see anything that Ray does better than any of the other vendors. Simrad and Garmin cater to the consumer-electronics-mentality crown looking for whiz bang new stuff. I don't care what the question is, wifi, blue tooth, and the cloud are the answer. Ray offers nothing to them.


The fishing-crazy people seem to gravitate towards Simrad. I don't know why, but they seem to. Ray doesn't beat them.



The people who want simple, non-technical boating gravitate towards Garmin. Ray doesn't beat them.


The people who want meat and potatoes products that are rock solid with excellent support buy Furuno. Ray doesn't beat them.


Ray's not bad, just not distinguished, in any way.


I also find it interesting when companies announce they are selling a division, as opposed to announcing they have sold a division. When selling in part of a plan, you engage a banker and they canvass the market of buyers. Then hopefully you sell, and announce it.


But announcing an intent to sell is reactionary, not planful. It seems like FLIR is throwing them under the bus, perhaps rightfully, and saying "we have found the problem and are vanquishing it". It's a story told to investors, for investors, in response to an "oh ****" event.

 

[Codger2]

Are you referring to 10 plus year old equipment? If yes, you may have a point.

I originally answered "yes" to the above statement and have been thinking about it since. I realize that Furuno has made improvements over the years since I had a Furuno radar & today they are probably better. (More intuitive) So why did I say that I'm not a Furuno fan? Answer: You only get one chance to make a first impression & my first impression was not good!

 

[psneeld]

I would think old timers would remember the up and down years of all the major manufacturers... and they are mostly alll still around in one form or another