Festoon LED nav lights

[RichardM]

Hi,

I'm looking to replace the 12v incandescent 42mm festoon light bulbs in my Perko nav lights but I'm not sure what to use. Some say you have to use green and red leds and other says white is fine. I have green and red plastic diffuser. There's also the USCG regulations that says they have to be seen from 2NM... I think it's 2... looking for input on this

Thanks

 

[Brisyboy]

Hi,

I'm looking to replace the 12v incandescent 42mm festoon light bulbs in my Perko nav lights but I'm not sure what to use. Some say you have to use green and red leds and other says white is fine. I have green and red plastic diffuser. There's also the USCG regulations that says they have to be seen from 2NM... I think it's 2... looking for input on this

Thanks

I replaced all the incandescent bulbs on our boat with LEDs and was about to replace the Nav lights also when I asked myself...why bother............ Leds great benefit is of course power saving but nav lights are only on when the engine is running .......so I couldn`t see the point - so I didn`t. I did replace the Anchor light though.

Now, if you can answer that one, then your leds need to be white.

 

[FF]

"There's also the USCG regulations that says they have to be seen from 2NM..."


I believe the Coasties as well as the rest of the worlds rules require the lights be demonstrated to work at a certain minimum distance as manufactured.


You are on your own when installing a different bulb.

 

[caltexflanc]

I'm pretty sure this is what you want, but call or contact them with any questions; they are very helpful. Note that for the nav lights they recommend bulbs of that color.

https://store.marinebeam.com/30-led-42mm-cone-end-festoon-mini-max-fs-42-30c/

I rate longevity as the key benefit of LEDs for nav, anchor and stern and steaming lights. followed by brightness, much more so than energy savings. Often times these lights a re a PITA to change, so why not reduce the times you have to do it?

 

[RichardM]

I'm pretty sure this is what you want, but call or contact them with any questions; they are very helpful. Note that for the nav lights they recommend bulbs of that color.

https://store.marinebeam.com/30-led-42mm-cone-end-festoon-mini-max-fs-42-30c/

I rate longevity as the key benefit of LEDs for nav, anchor and stern and steaming lights. followed by brightness, much more so than energy savings. Often times these lights a re a PITA to change, so why not reduce the times you have to do it?

Thank you for the replies... yes I think that might be it. The body of the LED bulb is a little big but I think I can fit it with minor modifications to the fixture. And yes it's basically for longevity because harder to get to than most other lights. And I do use them when the engines are not running so good for power draw to.

 

[caltexflanc]

Thank you for the replies... yes I think that might be it. The body of the LED bulb is a little big but I think I can fit it with minor modifications to the fixture. And yes it's basically for longevity because harder to get to than most other lights. And I do use them when the engines are not running so good for power draw to.

Again, I encourage you to contact them; they are very helpful. That's right, knowledgeable service from an actual human being! They are quite familiar with Hatteras boats, by the way.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Call Norman Lamps, they are my go-to place for all my bulbs. They even have odd sized and shaped 32v LEDs and incandescent lamps.

 

[Leo Reise]

I spend some time in a chandlery. Navigation lights are rated as a unit - that is bulb plus fixture. If an incandescent bulb is replaced with a LED, the fixture rating, 2nm, 3nm, 5nm, is no longer valid. Have owners done this - yes. Have any owners been challenged - I know of none.
Just a question - If a collision was to occur at night and it was discovered your nav lights were not in compliance, what would the likely results be if challenged by your insurance company or the specific authority?
The lens is a fresnel. LEDs emit light in a straight line and at a specific frequency. incandescent lights emit a broad range. A fresnel designed for one is not ideal for another. However, I would suggest you read the details on your own.

 

[firehoser75]

Richard (and others),
First, the personal experience. I tried using festoon LED bulbs in my masthead mounted Perko Anchor/Steaming light (2 bulbs in the one fixture). I did this despite what I will talk about next, due to the fact that this fixture is a good 10-12 above the deck and therefore difficult to replace bulbs. The LED bulbs did not last. I replaced them at least twice, and both times they stopped working(one time in only about 20 hours of use the other about 1/2 season). Regular bulbs last for at least one, often 2 seasons, so I am back to them. I looked into buying a new LED (designed) fixture, but it is very expensive compared to the same "regular" fixture, and I am not convinced that the bulbs in the designed fixture will last longer. I think it is the moisture that causes LED failure in this exterior fixture??
As far as I know, Leo and others have the "rules" correct. If you replace navigation/anchor regular bulbs with LED's, your light is NO LONGER IS COMPLIANT. Yes, lots of people do this, and most "get away" with it.
I know of one court case (in the US) where an intoxicated boater under way at night collided with an anchored boat that had it's anchor light on. The moving boater's defence lawyer spent 2 full days at the court proceeding challenging whether or not the light met all certifications, regulations, requirements, etc. Lots of "expert witnesses", etc. Also, insurance companies have been known for finding reasons for denying coverage.
It's your boat, you take the risk (or not), you decide. For me, I decided for several reasons (especially the bulbs did not last and I could replace one LED bulb with incandescent about 4-5 times for the same price, and it seemed the regular lasted longer as well). The legal issue was secondary, but certainly something to consider and be well aware of. By the way, these were not "cheap" LED bulbs, they were from a reputable supplier.

 

[caltexflanc]

One reason I recommend Marine Beam, after trying a variety of "reputable" suppliers is that they are very helpful and cognizant of the issues around lights regulatory issues. The other is, LED bulbs are not generic commodities, so it is no surprise that someone had issues with them on a boat. Current and voltage fluctuations raise hell with many LEDs another. You want LEDs designed for the marine environment.

I was a big user of Norman, by the way, for oddball 32v incandescents primarily. I was not happy with the couple of LEDs I bought from them for interior 12vAC halogen. replacement.

 

[Ventana]

You may also want to look at products from Dr LED

https://www.doctorled.com/

As fas as I know they are the only ones that do product testing in conjunction with the USCG to assure that using their product in an existing fixture still meets the USCG regs.

 

[RichardM]

Thanks for all the replies. Really appreciated I'm starting to think that I should maybe stick with the old incandescent bulb. It sure made me reconsider... I also checked to replace the whole fixture that comes with LED to be legit but it just doesn't make sense economically.

 

[localboy]

2 Thumbs up for Marinebeam.com. Replaced our anchor light and all the interior lights. Work great!

I did not replace my running lights since anytime they are on, we are running under power and the power savings is moot.

 

[caltexflanc]

For those of you who do not have a commercial vessel requiring USCG Inspected Vessel status (that is NOT the safety check for rec boats) , I recommend you read the Navigation rule 22 and Annex I. Not one mention of the requirement for USCG Certification, they just care about visibility.

Once again, when it comes to navigation lights, power savings is not even remotely the point. Brightness, longevity and thus total cost of ownership are the points.

 

[koliver]

In 25 yrs of doing Safety Checks at our YC, I have come across far more lens failures than bulb failures. Those failures typically result in the light being absorbed by the opaque lens to the point that at 2 nm there wouldn't be visibility at all.
Coloured lenses are typically made of plastic, which degrades with UV exposure.
If you are considering a change to LED, check your fixture to see if it needs a new lens first.

 

[ssobol]

I replaced my anchor light bulb with an LED. The LED is WWWAAAAAAYYYY brighter than the incandescent bulb that was in there before. It actually lights up the fore deck fairly well at night. The lens was fine.

I replaced my nav lights with LED. Until recently nav light fixtures were designed for white(ish) light sources. While replacing the bulbs with colored LEDs might be tempting, this might lower the apparent intensity.

Some newer nav light fixtures are designed with colored LEDs.

 

[RichardM]

In 25 yrs of doing Safety Checks at our YC, I have come across far more lens failures than bulb failures. Those failures typically result in the light being absorbed by the opaque lens to the point that at 2 nm there wouldn't be visibility at all.

Coloured lenses are typically made of plastic, which degrades with UV exposure.

If you are considering a change to LED, check your fixture to see if it needs a new lens first.

You're right about the lens. Mine are badly degraded after 35 years. We tried a plastic restoring product used to clear up old "yellowed" car headlamp. It helped a little but the opacity is still there. It's a good point, I guess I should address this first.

 

[firehoser75]

Richard,
Probably you can purchase new lens'. However, for my Perko Masthead (2 light) unit, I decided to replace the fixture with a new incandescent fixture of the same (but newer model) type. To move to an LED fixture was going to be quite costly. Fixture was almost 4 times the price, plus (and I don't understand the reasoning), I would require an additional "adapter" adding another $100 to make the new light (LED) work with my standard setup. I can buy alot of bulbs and even new lens for the price difference, and under this application, I have my suspicions about how long the LED bulbs will actually last based on my previous experience as described above.
Just my reasoning.

 

[TJM]

Due to the same reasons, replacement and lens cracking, I am replacing all of my Navigation lens with LED's.

 

[RichardM]

Richard,
Probably you can purchase new lens'. However, for my Perko Masthead (2 light) unit, I decided to replace the fixture with a new incandescent fixture of the same (but newer model) type. To move to an LED fixture was going to be quite costly. Fixture was almost 4 times the price, plus (and I don't understand the reasoning), I would require an additional "adapter" adding another $100 to make the new light (LED) work with my standard setup. I can buy alot of bulbs and even new lens for the price difference, and under this application, I have my suspicions about how long the LED bulbs will actually last based on my previous experience as described above.
Just my reasoning.

Yes we can order the red/green lens at a decent price. The metal parts are sort of galvanized and painted. I'm not sure exactly. Hard to tell. I'm thinking of going to a metal shop and have them chromed or something... can you believe Perko is selling the whole fixture for around 1k$ a piece?!? Apparently it's commercial stuff...

 

[localboy]

Not only is the Marinebeam festoon anchor light brighter, but the light is much “whiter” too.

 

[rgano]

Because the horribly inadequate combination p/s side light fixture (each color visible over 30 degrees across the bow) on my bow was to be replaced by a searchlight, I took the opportunity to add individual LED AquaSignal fixtures to the sides of the pulpit. There is no lens to age, and the LED is potted and unlikely to suffer much from environmental issues. IHMO the cost of the best nav lights you can get should not be a big issue.

 

[Flatswing]

Marine beam is great for reliable replacements which will not interfere with your AIS or VHF (unlike some inexpensive LED’s). I have heard the concerns re: USCG refs. before also. My personal experience is also that the Marinebeam replacements are brighter than the incandescents they replace.

 

[caltexflanc]

Because the horribly inadequate combination p/s side light fixture (each color visible over 30 degrees across the bow) on my bow was to be replaced by a searchlight, I took the opportunity to add individual LED AquaSignal fixtures to the sides of the pulpit. There is no lens to age, and the LED is potted and unlikely to suffer much from environmental issues. IHMO the cost of the best nav lights you can get should not be a big issue.

And may I say a very nice looking Supermax there Rich. First class all the way, I like that!

 

[wkearney99]

By the way, these were not "cheap" LED bulbs, they were from a reputable supplier.

Which supplier, what brand?

LEDs have, essentially, a DC power supply on-board - a driver. Thus they're dependent on a predictable and stable source of power. Cheap LED units typically do not have a decent driver on board that is capable of dealing with the kind of voltage ranges and fluctuations found in vehicles and boats. Low and high ranges cause the cheap power supply on them to overheat and fail prematurely. Trouble is it's nearly impossible to tell what's going to be on a light when you're surfing a reseller's website online.

 

[rslifkin]

Personally, I've been going to LED based on needing to replace my old nav lights anyway due to them being small and crappy. I went with the Hella NaviLED Pro units for the side lights and stern light. For the masthead (which also serves as my anchor light), I went with the Signal Mate LED masthead / anchor light combo unit. The Signal Mate unit was the only one I could find that was a single masthead / anchor combo unit that was visible for 3nm, not 2.

That upgraded me from 1nm side lights / 2nm masthead, stern and anchor (which is fine for under 12 meters / 39.4 feet and I'm 38 feet) to 2nm side lights and stern plus 3nm masthead and anchor (which is good for up to 65 feet and brighter than required for the anchor light, as it only has to be visible for 2nm).

 

[caltexflanc]

T he Signal Mate unit was the only one I could find that was a single masthead / anchor combo unit that was visible for 3nm, not 2.

I'm sure the Signal Mate is perfectly fine unit but...

https://store.marinebeam.com/led-all-around-anchor-light/

 

[rslifkin]

I'm sure the Signal Mate is perfectly fine unit but...

https://store.marinebeam.com/led-all-around-anchor-light/

That's an all-around unit, so it didn't meet my needs. I found plenty of all-around units and masthead only units, but finding a 3 segment unit that can function as either a masthead or all-around (basically the 225* portion and 135* portions have separate power feeds) was much harder. There are a few out there, but the Signal Mate was the only one I found that was 3nm visible rather than 2nm.

I could have re-done my mounting pole to accommodate an all around plus a separate masthead light mounted below it. But by finding a suitable unit that could be both, I just had to change out the old Perko 2 bulb light on top of the pole and not change the mounting setup.

The light I'm using is this guy with the matching pole mount adapter they sell for it: https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|65136|2312550|2312559&id=2200146 It lights 2 of the 3 LED segments for masthead light and all 3 in anchor light mode. It's smaller than some of the other lights I looked at, but it's very bright, so visibility should be no problem. Not the lowest power draw as an anchor light (spec is 0.26 amps), but it's quite a bit brighter than most anchor lights.

 

[Gypsyjon]

Lights

Hi,

I'm looking to replace the 12v incandescent 42mm festoon light bulbs in my Perko nav lights but I'm not sure what to use. Some say you have to use green and red leds and other says white is fine. I have green and red plastic diffuser. There's also the USCG regulations that says they have to be seen from 2NM... I think it's 2... looking for input on this

Thanks

You do not have to use red and green lights, but if you do the light emitted will be brighter. The way red and green diffusers work is by filtering out all the light waves except red or green. Thus if you use a green bulb in a green diffuser, very little of the light will be filtered out and the emission will be brighter.

 

[Gypsyjon]

This is where I get all my LED lights. Not the cheapest but IMHO the best..

https://www.doctorled.com/