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Old 05-07-2022, 11:43 AM   #21
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Are you running ER fans when not underway? 48A seems high
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Old 05-07-2022, 11:54 AM   #22
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You mean average load is 48A per hour, yes?

If so, that low voltage shut-down after 168Ah consumption was at about the 3½-hour mark? ...
Yes exactly right.
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Old 05-07-2022, 11:57 AM   #23
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Are you running ER fans when not underway? 48A seems high
Yes running two 120v circulating blowers in the ER plus one 12v exhaust blower.
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Old 05-07-2022, 01:21 PM   #24
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It could be just one cell on one of the 8Ds bad. Test the 8Ds individually.
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Old 05-07-2022, 02:59 PM   #25
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if the average amp draw was 48, what was the peak, and how long was the duration of the peak? it's easy to get my 1125 ah bank to show low voltage if i load it that heavily. remove the load and let them recover and i bet you'll see volts that are in-line with the amp hours removed.
i don't necessarily think your batteries are used up, but they seem like they're being a bit abused by that heavy load. i agree that you might need a bigger house bank if you can't reduce that load.
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Old 05-07-2022, 05:20 PM   #26
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If the batteries are all equal then he should be drawing 8 amps per battery which is less than the 20 hr rate. Before you throw out the whole bank, I would do some tests and calculations. When on shore power next time, once the bank is fully charged, disconnect the bank from supplying DC (the Xantrex should be providing 12v). Isolate each battery by disconnecting the grounds and let them sit. After about 12 hrs check the voltage on each battery and see where they are at. The resting voltage will tell you the approximate condition of the battery. I believe if it measures less than 12.6v or what the battery Mfr says then it is not fully capable. This will find a bad battery quickly. Next step is to draw out your DC system to insure the 6 batteries are connected to the load through cabling that is the same length. It’s possible that each bank of three is connected to each other and the last one in the chain is connected to the load. I also recommend reading Nigel Caulder’s book.

I had a 4 battery AGM bank that was acting like yours after 3 years and after removing 3 parallel cables between port and starboard banks, I got another 4 years out of them.

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Old 05-07-2022, 08:06 PM   #27
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After our 2nd extended time away from the dock since purchase I feel safe in saying that our house bank is toast. There are 6 - 8d batteries less than 4 years old. Hard to believe they have such a short life but I have no clue as to how they have been treated. The right components seem to all be here: Balmar alternator controls, Xantrex inverter/chargers, BlueSeas ACRs and all seems to be functioning.

Assuming 200ah for each 8d, I should have 1200ah @50% discharge = 600ah or pretty close if I've got the math right. My Victron battery monitor showed a whopping 168ah consumed when the inverters shut down for low battery voltage (11.6 volts if I remember correctly).

My load averages 48 amps (measured by the Victron). We run a big residential refrigerator, plus a dorm sized fridge, plus some engine room blowers on 120v. Add to that my 12v loads for nav gear, etc and we are the definition of why trawlers love to travel from one dockside power connection to the next

I could go the cheaper and quick route and just swap out the 8d AGMs. I want to be able to get through the night w/o the generator and new AGMs would probably allow that. Not much reserve though.

Sure is tempting to go the LiFePO route and get at least twice that capacity, although still at nearly twice the cost for the UL listed Kilovaults. Throw in the external BMS, Wakespeed, etc and the cost difference is not trivial. Throw in the ABYC standards evolution and possible insurance issue and the decision gets 'complicated.'

Two questions for the group:
- Am I correct that my current batteries are shot or am I just expecting too much of them?
- Is the current cost & complexity of the LiFePO solution worth the additional capacity? (I know that's subjective....)
8D’s are too heavy for me to lift. Cheapest & durable solution is replace with GC2’s or even better, GC1’s which will fit in your existing spaces & give more Ahrs. Deka makes decent GC’s & cheapest through Costco, Lowes or NAPA. Add a battery watering system for $200 and watering even the most inaccessible FLA takes <5 minutes and u r good for another 5 yrs+. If battery height and weight is not an issue - L16 FLA scrubber batteries will almost double the GC2’s Ahrs with similar footprint.

I share other posters concerns re 48A routine requirement. With an apartment size 1120v fridge, plus icemaker plus all the 12v stuff (though all lighting is LED) I only pull 30A when both compressors are on their duty cycle, average load is <20A.
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Old 05-07-2022, 10:09 PM   #28
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I we have been on anchor all weekend. Sat TV, full size fridge, chest freezer, led lights. My consumpution is between 15-25 A per hour. But I could easily see how with eng. Room blowers it could add up to 48 A. If so I would suggest you put in around 1000 Ah of lithium. Solar would significantly reduce generator run time.
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Old 05-07-2022, 10:18 PM   #29
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Yeah those blowers... Do you need them running when not underway? Why? Do you know how much current they draw?

Agree that 48a seems like a very high baseline. I'd sort that first.

Quick pedantic engineer note: A "load" is measured in Amps (or better, Watts). Amp-hours (better, Watt-hours) is a measure of energy. "Amps per hour" doesn't make any sense, as Amperage is a unit analogous to flow - so saying "Amps per hour" is like saying "gallons per hour per hour"
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Old 05-08-2022, 06:15 AM   #30
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Quick pedantic engineer note: A "load" is measured in Amps (or better, Watts). Amp-hours (better, Watt-hours) is a measure of energy. "Amps per hour" doesn't make any sense, as Amperage is a unit analogous to flow - so saying "Amps per hour" is like saying "gallons per hour per hour"

My bad, for introducing that term. Then again, have to admit I don't fully understand the distinctions...

I think I understand Mark load averages 48A over the period of each hour...

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Old 05-08-2022, 07:59 AM   #31
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I'd still do the 20 hour load test, even with what's been mentioned here. Under a decent load, 11.6 volts is a very high cut-off threshold. Knowing they hit that while drawn down about 15% makes me think they may be weak, but it's hard to say for sure.
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Old 05-08-2022, 08:34 AM   #32
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I'd still do the 20 hour load test, even with what's been mentioned here. Under a decent load, 11.6 volts is a very high cut-off threshold. Knowing they hit that while drawn down about 15% makes me think they may be weak, but it's hard to say for sure.
i think he said that 10.5 was the cut off set point. 11.6 is what he measured after he noticed the cutoff. there must have been some rebound. we can't know what they might settle at after 24 hours, but it would be interesting if that became known.
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Old 05-08-2022, 08:45 AM   #33
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Will try to isolate the loads better today. I agree 48a is too much for what I think I have running.

Also looking at a battery load tester - such as the Foxwell BT705 which is reasonably priced (not affiliated just interested customer).

Are these worth the cost of admission to your tool box?
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Old 05-08-2022, 08:52 AM   #34
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I agree that running the ER blowers when not underway is unusual, to say the least. I could see running them for a bit after shut down to cool the ER off a bit, but after that I don't see any need to run them, and I'll bet they are 1/3 or more of your load. But maybe there is some special need?



Now this is really independent of whether your batteries are toast or not, and whether you replace with lead or LFP. But any choice going forward will benefit from reducing unnecessary loads.
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Old 05-08-2022, 08:57 AM   #35
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Will try to isolate the loads better today. I agree 48a is too much for what I think I have running.

Also looking at a battery load tester - such as the Foxwell BT705 which is reasonably priced (not affiliated just interested customer).

Are these worth the cost of admission to your tool box?

Testers like that will work fine for starting batteries, but they don't really tell you much about condition of a big deep cycle bank. A full discharge test tells far more.
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Old 05-08-2022, 09:06 AM   #36
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...I agree that running the ER blowers when not underway is unusual, to say the least. I could see running them for a bit after shut down to cool the ER ...

Running only to cool the engine room. Not continuously.
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Old 05-08-2022, 10:52 AM   #37
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Mark
Do you have a good BMK monitoring your house bank? By turning various 110volt loads on and off you can assess instantly the change in amps and volts. Load assessment management without a modern properly set up BMK is difficult at best.

Possibly more information would assist you in making your go forward battery decisions. BTW, a decade ago I got rid of our Xantrex inverter charger and Link system and installed a Magnum BMK. What an improvement.

There are other monitoring systems that are specific for the inverter brand and work quite well too.
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Old 05-08-2022, 11:40 AM   #38
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WATCH:
A state-owned public transport operator in Paris, France, the Régie Autonome des Transports Parisiens, has pulled out 149 electric buses from its fleet after two of them spontaneously exploded within the same month.
The RATP decided to temporarily retire the electric vehicles after the second explosion occurred around 9 a.m. on April 29 near the François Mitterrand Library, according to reporting from the local newspaper Le Parisien and a RATP news release.
Footage of the bus engulfed in flames in Paris’s 13th arrondissement was widely circulated on social media.
A video by VIXX compiling the viral videos showed smoke emanating from the top of the bus, where the battery is located. The smoke gave way to an explosion and a shower of sparks that covered the vehicle’s mid-section and nearby areas.


Flames eventually engulfed the electric vehicle, and the ravaging inferno gave rise to tall columns of thick black smoke visible from surrounding areas, the video showed. The air was filled with the smell of burning plastic.
Fortunately, there were no casualties due to the fire. The bus driver was able to get out, the arrondissement’s mayor Jérôme Coumet confirmed.
Firefighters promptly responded to the incident. Authorities closed the nearby metro station from 9 am to 11 am to help them put out the blazing inferno, Le Figaro reported.
The bus that was engulfed in flames on April 29 and the one that caught fire earlier that month both belonged to the Bluebus 5SE series of the brand Bolloré, according to the RATP.
The RATP has requested the manufacturer to carry out a full investigation to explain the causes of the fire and provide the RATP with an action plan to bring the electric buses safely back into operation.
The two fires in Paris and similar incidents worldwide have raised concerns about the safety of electric vehicles amid a push toward making them replace those running on fossil fuels by activists and lawmakers.
The government of India last month urged electric motorcycle companies operating in the country to carry out voluntary recalls of their products.
The country’s authorities did so to ensure electric motorcycles were safe for consumers after a series of electric scooters caught fire in the country, the Indian newspaper The Hindu reported.
“Lithium has a natural affinity for fires,’’ Amit Das, the founder of the Indian multi-brand electric vehicle store chain Electric One, said, according to the Business Standard. Lithium is a common element in electric vehicle batteries.
Besides safety concerns, electric vehicles face other sets of problems, such as governments adding new taxes to compensate for revenue losses that came with incentives given to motorists for switching from gas/diesel-powered vehicles to electric ones.
On top of that are ethical concerns that arise due to the nature of the process of mining raw materials to make electric vehicles and the emissions involved therein & their disposal.
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Old 05-08-2022, 12:06 PM   #39
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Mark
Do you have a good BMK monitoring your house bank? By turning various 110volt loads on and off you can assess instantly the change in amps and volts. Load assessment management without a modern properly set up BMK is difficult at best.

Possibly more information would assist you in making your go forward battery decisions. BTW, a decade ago I got rid of our Xantrex inverter charger and Link system and installed a Magnum BMK. What an improvement.

There are other monitoring systems that are specific for the inverter brand and work quite well too.

In addition to the Xantrex monitoring system I also have a Victron battery monitor that shows current draw, Amps consumed, state of charge etc.
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Old 05-08-2022, 01:43 PM   #40
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In addition to the Xantrex monitoring system I also have a Victron battery monitor that shows current draw, Amps consumed, state of charge etc.
My bad for not reading your first post on this issue carefully enough. What is output of the Xantrex and any other chargers you have onboard?
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