Charging Batteries with Engine while Underway

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Scott Barnard

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
45
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Vessel Name
Laurel Sommers
Vessel Make
Beneteau ST44 (2014)
Is there a downside to charging the house batteries from the engines while underway? At present, when we leave the dock for an overnight, the draw on the house batteries starts (unless we have the generator running). It would be nice to have these batteries fully charged when we get to the anchorage. Thanks all, Scott
 
Is there a downside to charging the house batteries from the engines while underway? At present, when we leave the dock for an overnight, the draw on the house batteries starts (unless we have the generator running). It would be nice to have these batteries fully charged when we get to the anchorage. Thanks all, Scott

i'd have to say no. there's only upside to charging the house bank under way. my system actually aims at the house bank first, then as the voltage rises, the start batteries get charged too.
 
in fact, i'd say it's really rare to not be charging the house bank with the mains. maybe the alternator is small? i wonder why this is the way the system was designed. more info is needed to really know why it's that way.
 
Of course you should be charging the house batteries while underway, twin engines one is dedicated, with singles get a DC to DC charger so start batteries get topped up and then house also.
 
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With my twins, both have ACRs (interlocked to the ignitions) to charge the house bank while underway. Alternators go to the start batteries so those have priority, then as long as the ignitions are on and voltage is high enough, the ACRs engage to charge the house bank. Once the engines are turned off, the ignition interlock disables the ACRs so all charging from other sources remains independent.
 
One of my two engines has a second alternator devoted to the house bank.
 
I charge my house bank from a second alternator on the main engine.

Couple of points worth mentioning:
Your engine alternator isn't designed to be a battery charger, but to supply power to devices. To convert the alternator to a battery charger requires an external regulator that is settable to you battery type. It increases the voltage to allow more amperage to go into the battery and usually has a 3 or 4 stage charging program. Many engine alternators are also lower amperage, so it can take a while. It's certainly worth doing, but not as simple as connecting the house and engine battery together.

Ted
 
Start batteries for each engine and generator (three total). Also two battery chargers - one for house and one for engine and generator batteries. 2020 Sabre 38
 
I charge my house bank from a second alternator on the main engine.

Couple of points worth mentioning:
Your engine alternator isn't designed to be a battery charger, but to supply power to devices. To convert the alternator to a battery charger requires an external regulator that is settable to you battery type. It increases the voltage to allow more amperage to go into the battery and usually has a 3 or 4 stage charging program. Many engine alternators are also lower amperage, so it can take a while. It's certainly worth doing, but not as simple as connecting the house and engine battery together.

Ted


Good point. Stock internally regulated alternators aren't the most effective battery chargers. Mine are set for a bit more than float voltage so they don't cook the batteries on a long run. They'll get the batteries charged, but it definitely takes significantly longer than an ideal charging program would (as charge acceptance drops off much sooner at the lower voltage). In my case, I don't rely heavily on alternator charging most of the time, so I haven't had a reason to improve the setup further.
 
Been using the engine alts and ACRs to charge all batteries while cruising for 9 years now. Works great, doesn’t fry batteries as some would think it might. Ted is right about standard alternators, but with twin engines and 2 80A alternators, even at 1/2 output each, a 4-10 hour cruise day finds us getting to our next anchorage with fully charged batteries all around.

Ken
 
We don't use Alts for charging house bank
The cost of doing so ain't worth it for us.

Genset if needed does it so much faster.
 
Is there a downside to charging the house batteries from the engines while underway? At present, when we leave the dock for an overnight, the draw on the house batteries starts (unless we have the generator running). It would be nice to have these batteries fully charged when we get to the anchorage. Thanks all, Scott

No downside, but not cheap or simple to implement properly.

Aren't you running the generator regularly? How big is your house bank?

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using Trawler Forum mobile app
 
Is there a downside to charging the house batteries from the engines while underway? At present, when we leave the dock for an overnight, the draw on the house batteries starts (unless we have the generator running). It would be nice to have these batteries fully charged when we get to the anchorage. Thanks all, Scott

Data is your friend. A battery monitor, one for your house bank and another for your start bank will provide real time numbers for amps in and out, SOC and voltage for each bank.

Guess work is eliminated and house bank SOC is now available and can be managed based upon loads, alternator cruising time, generator run time and solar panel input. Another active thread - "confusing battery types" - will help you to understand how to combine your twin engines alternator outputs to put the most amps into your batteries.
 
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I have OEM 51 amp alternators on both of my 3208TAs. They both charge the start battery and the house bank through an ACR. At my typical 1100 to 1200 RPM cruise, the alternators keep up with typical loads (about 30 amps for house stuff, engines and bridge electronics, and just barely charge my 615 AH 12V house bank while underway, maybe 1.5% per hour, but it's better than nothing and it's not exactly loading down my engines.



If we are doing a 6 hour + cruise, we usually run a crock pot on the inverter for a nice hot meal when we arrive at our destination. This drags the house bank down even with the alternators working, but not all that much and it's worth the extra genset time later at anchor.
 
The OP posted his question and then there were more than a dozen replies but not another word from the OP. Maybe he got his original question answered, and dropped out of the discussion, but maybe he wants help solving it.

The only way to advance this thread is for the OP to better describe his DC system. Otherwise, we seem to be beating a dying horse to death.

David
 
Agree with both DavidM and OCDiver.
Most stock (single engine) alternator setups are just basically "automotive" style, internally regulated "basic" alternators that are wired directly to the start battery and are intended to put back the small amount of electricity used to start the engine, and to meet the operating needs (mostly for the engine and accessories) while underway. These systems (as they come stock) are not intended to recharge a house bank, that could be large, and could be in need of many, many amps.
There are many varying ways to "improve" the situation, but these alternators are not designed to do high output (near their rating) for long periods of time. They will burn out if "overworked" (compared to their design criteria).
To be most effective, you will need a proper "high output" alternator (that will have a much higher efficiency for keeping itself cool enough), an external regulator (3 or 4 stage), temperature compensation (both for alternator temp and battery temp), the wiring may need to be upgraded, and the alternator must be wired to output to the house bank as the priority. You can use ACR's or "Echo chargers" etc. to ensure the start battery is not deprived. This is not an inexpensive nor simple "fix".

As stated, most boats using factory setups with the stock "automotive" style alternators, do not do much if any recharging of a house bank. On both my previous boats (stock from factory) the best I achieved was having the house bank stay the same or slightly (2%) improve from the start of the day even after motoring for several hours.
Good luck with this.
 
The OP posted his question and then there were more than a dozen replies but not another word from the OP. Maybe he got his original question answered, and dropped out of the discussion, but maybe he wants help solving it.

The only way to advance this thread is for the OP to better describe his DC system. Otherwise, we seem to be beating a dying horse to death.

David

You are correct David. The OP has a twin engine boat with much advice coming from single engine boaters. Getting back on point is never easy on TF
 
We don't use Alts for charging house bank
The cost of doing so ain't worth it for us.

Genset if needed does it so much faster.
expand on this, "cost of doing so". Do you mean the cost of adding an external regulator, DC-DC charger or ACR when you already have an inverter charger that just needs AC input. If yes, I was wondering the same.
 
expand on this, "cost of doing so". Do you mean the cost of adding an external regulator, DC-DC charger or ACR when you already have an inverter charger that just needs AC input. If yes, I was wondering the same.

Had one of these when we got her using the standard large frame 40 amp alt
dual battery isolator designed to protect the start battery from excessive discharge while allowing the auxiliary battery to supply charge to non-essential loads.
https://www.redarc.com.au/smart-start-sbi-24v-100a

Worked for a while, we could see charge going into the house bank but eventually the redarc died

Replaced with Victron VSR ,
https://www.outbackequipment.com.au...CCc3vnlLYU_g5YMGbihKthtRfGXv27iRoCREAQAvD_BwE
had charge coming in for a while then the alternator died

Replaced alternator with 70 amp large frame and weren't getting charge to house bank so had Victron VSR replaced under warranty and had charge again but then the new Alternator died after several hours.
Got refund on that and did homework

Turns out large frame continuously rated alternators can't work continuously without throwing $1000 worth of Balmar or wakespeed on them.
Not worth it for a small amp alt
Big amp alt is another $1500 plus here
So $2500 plus

Like I said, not worth it.
$2500 buys a lot of Genset hours
 
I think I can contribute something to this thread, or at least try.

There are at least four ways to join the house battery (or bank) to the start battery (or bank). Let's look at each of them.

1) Direct connect cabling.
2) Automatic Charging Relay (e.g. Blue Sea ACR)
3) Remote Battery Switch (e.g. Blue Sea ML-RBS)
4) DC-DC Charger (e.g. Victron Orion)
5) I guess I'll add: Classic 4-way A-B-Both-Off switch

How do these differ?

1) Direct connect cabling essentially joins the two banks into one new bank. This is least desirable for a bunch of reasons I won't bother elaborating upon.
(Both banks should be the same chemistry, age, and there are other best practices when building a bank that I won't get into.)

2) ACR is a nice way to ensure whenever one battery or bank is getting charged that both are getting charged (whether they need it or not). It is automatic. If one bank is attached to an alternator, and the other is attached to solar or a shore power charger, or anything, either bank's charging activity will turn the ACR on, and both banks get charged, whether it is desired or not. When there is no charging in-place, the relay opens, and the drain on one bank only affects that one bank. If both are in discharge state, they discharge separately. The Blue Sea ACR enables a remote light indicator so the captain can see when it is open or closed from the helm, which is nice. Both banks should be the same chemistry.

3) RBS is a nice way to temporarily join to batteries or banks together in case you want to temporarily charge one from the other, or join them together in order to get a boat started if the start battery is low. The big feature of the RBS is the "demand" to join them temporarily is bi-directional. Either bank can "help" the other. There is no "intelligence" or automation built into this system except that of the captain who chooses when to turn it on, for how long, and remembering to turn it off! LOL The chemistries should be the same. ((Side note: Most Lithium batteries do not "like" to be used for starting loads, and it'll void warranties etc.))

4) The DC-DC charger is a uni-directional way to ensure one "output bank" is charged from the other "input bank"... with intelligence such that if the output bank is really not in need of a charge (e.g. 100% SOC state of charge), there is no flow until that changes. This is really the only advisable way to join two banks together that are of different chemistries or different age ... or different in other ways, (e.g. Lithium with flooded lead acid), in which case, you program the DC-DC Charger to let it know which chemistry the output bank is, as they have different charge profiles.
The only disadvantage of a DC-DC Charger is it unidirectional, and perhaps cost. If you need the "output bank" to be joined to the "input bank" for some reason, it simply does not provide for that, which is not a bad thing sometimes!

DC-DC chargers typically have a remote switch to manually turn them on and off, OR only have them "on" when the engine is running.

5) The classic 4-way switch is the simplest way to do this. But, you should not make changes to this switch's position when the engine is running. It *may* toast the diodes in your alternator, disabling it entirely. To make a change it is best to turn off the engine, make the change, then restart the engine. Like 2 and 3, the chemistries should be the same.

To the original question of this post, my short answer would unequivocally be "Yes, I would want to be able to charge the house bank from the alternator when underway." But with the following caveats: a) "... IF there is no other way to charge those house batteries... e.g. no Solar no second alternator, etc." b) I'd prefer to be able to turn the charging on and off. c) They have to be the same chemistry if being conjoined together.

My best choice of method (2, 3, 4, 5) would depend upon other things, like budget, size and age of each bank, etc.

I've used each of these methods on different size boats and configurations over the years, and they each have their place! Hope this helps.

(Other considerations to get right, which I won't get into: Cable size, Circuit Breakers, how and where to mount the "stuff".)
 
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