Charging At Anchor

[RickB]

So who says the whole boat has to rock and roll?

The thing could be housed in a sphere and tossed over the side connected by the power lead.

You guys really need to start thinking outside the box.

 

[kulas44]

The wizbang stuff is interesting but back to the original line of thought, Doesnt anyone have inverter/chargers. I have a pair of ME2000s and 8 t105 GC batteries. They can charge at 200 amps, each is on a seperate leg of the 120/240 gen, bulk recharge is fairly quick, depending on state of discharge. The engines have the standard external regulated 150 amp Leece Neville alt.s My plan is to add 2 50DN bus alternators that can put out 270 amps at 24 volts. They are direct gear driven off the cam gear at the rear of the engine, these are Detroit Diesels btw. We also have a "big enough" solar panel to keep the batteries up in case of a prolonged power outage when we're not there, just for bilge pumps, alarms, gps tracker, etc.

 

[mbevins]

The wizbang stuff is interesting but back to the original line of thought, Doesnt anyone have inverter/chargers. I have a pair of ME2000s and 8 t105 GC batteries. They can charge at 200 amps, each is on a seperate leg of the 120/240 gen, bulk recharge is fairly quick, depending on state of discharge. The engines have the standard external regulated 150 amp Leece Neville alt.s My plan is to add 2 50DN bus alternators that can put out 270 amps at 24 volts. They are direct gear driven off the cam gear at the rear of the engine, these are Detroit Diesels btw. We also have a "big enough" solar panel to keep the batteries up in case of a prolonged power outage when we're not there, just for bilge pumps, alarms, gps tracker, etc.

I'm getting ready to install an inverter package. I also have DD (671s) . Can you expand on the alternated you mentioned.

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[kulas44]

It's the 50DN, used on big buses, gear driven. Most are 24 volt, but I think it can be had in 12 volt, 24 would be much better. The 5oDN is oil cooled and pressure lubricated with a line from the engine and a return. It's pretty big, looks about like a trash can . These are the end all do all of alternators, everything else are just posers compared to it. They are designed to run at max 270 amp load for at least 1,000,000 miles. Two of them and a pair of 5000 watt inverters should be able to run my boats 120 electrical load while cruising. Including the air conditioning. I like the Victron inverters for the "assist" feature, which would be nice when we only have a 30 amp service available or low voltage situations. However, I am VERY impressed with the folks at Magnum Energy. Great products and excellent service. When you call there you will actually talk to an American tech, that knows his product.

 

[mbevins]

It's the 50DN, used on big buses, gear driven. Most are 24 volt, but I think it can be had in 12 volt, 24 would be much better. The 5oDN is oil cooled and pressure lubricated with a line from the engine and a return. It's pretty big, looks about like a trash can . These are the end all do all of alternators, everything else are just posers compared to it. They are designed to run at max 270 amp load for at least 1,000,000 miles. Two of them and a pair of 5000 watt inverters should be able to run my boats 120 electrical load while cruising. Including the air conditioning. I like the Victron inverters for the "assist" feature, which would be nice when we only have a 30 amp service available or low voltage situations. However, I am VERY impressed with the folks at Magnum Energy. Great products and excellent service. When you call there you will actually talk to an American tech, that knows his product.

Thx I'll look into them. I agree with you about the 24V. I can probably do that as I'm planning a stand alone system for this. My only concern is real estate for batteries. Have you looked at the Sterling inverter? Thoughts? I was drawn to them because they can offer a complete solution including the alternator. I believe they are US based as well.

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[kulas44]

I have not looked at the Sterling inverters. I did have one of my ME2000s stop working once. I called Magnum Energy and they put me over to a tech. He identified the problem from what I told him and his experiences with these units. He asked if I was looking at the inverter, I said yes. He told me to pull the top off, move a few things out of the way (wires and small components) until I could see the small red MOV unit. I says "ok, found it" he says "cut it out" so I did. Then he says "ok, reconnect the inverter and turn it on. I told him "you didnt tell me to turn it off and unhook it when we started this". he got a good laff outa that. And I had on a pair of rubber electric repair gloves. Anyway its worked great since then. They told me if I sent it in they would fix it at no charge even tho it was a few years out of warranty. I didnt want to wait.

 

[FF]

The 5oDN is oil cooled and pressure lubricated with a line from the engine and a return.

There are loads of 12V units and a quick Google will show air cooled conversions.

In bus conversions a 24V will frequently be feeding a Trace 2440 and run two rooftops.

These are commercial grade ,and price, but happily they have been produced for so many decades that used or rebuilt is easy to find.

The problem is they are about 100lbs and may be hard to fit to a 6-71 PTO.

 

[mbevins]

Also in my case I need it to charge at low RPM since I'm a planing hull. I'm prepping for the Loop so I'll be running at 700rpm a lot. This is to supply the inverter I'm installing.

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[kulas44]

They fit any 71 series DD, and 53s if you can find the fitments and inner gear. They will charge more at idle than any other alternator made, busses sit at idle for hours on end running the full dc load. And, NO BELTS. It is a large unit, but its a one time deal, put them on and forget it. You will never wear one out or overload it.

 

[mbevins]

They fit any 71 series DD, and 53s if you can find the fitments and inner gear. They will charge more at idle than any other alternator made, busses sit at idle for hours on end running the full dc load. And, NO BELTS. It is a large unit, but its a one time deal, put them on and forget it. You will never wear one out or overload it.

I just need to check real estate then. If it's at the back end I may have a conflict with the turbo.

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[Richard W]

And, where do I get solid H2O fuel? (I assume they don't mean ice)

Just dehydrate the water. All what's left is dry and solid ...

 

[kulas44]

They can go on either side, there's 2 covers with gears under them that will drive it. One is a cam drive and the other a balance shaft.

 

[FF]

They can go on either side, there's 2 covers with gears under them that will drive it. One is a cam drive and the other a balance shaft.

Check with DD for the max HP that can be removed , and check that the speed of the shaft will get the alt spinning fast enough at modest engine RPM.

 

[Capthead]

You have to have CHIT cells. I always thought you flushed those.

 

[mbevins]

They can go on either side, there's 2 covers with gears under them that will drive it. One is a cam drive and the other a balance shaft.

I believe that one of these drive the turbo which means the other may drive the alternator. I can't believe that they are interchangeable. So I definitely need to talk to DD

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[Moonstruck]

I believe that one of these drive the turbo which means the other may drive the alternator. I can't believe that they are interchangeable. So I definitely need to talk to DD

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I believe the turbo is driven by the exhaust gases, and the gears drive the roots blower on the side or in case of a V configuration in the center top.

 

[mbevins]

I believe the turbo is driven by the exhaust gases, and the gears drive the roots blower on the side or in case of a V configuration in the center top.

Yes I think that s right. I guess what I am interested in is what the difference is between the road version and the marine version of the DD671 in this area. The apt. fits the road unit but will it fit the marine unit?

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[Moonstruck]

Yes I think that s right. I guess what I am interested in is what the difference is between the road version and the marine version of the DD671 in this area. The apt. fits the road unit but will it fit the marine unit?

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I think that will depend on the how the engine was marinized. The location of heat exchangers and other installed equipment may preclude some options here.

My experience has mostly been with road version. I started driving 6-53 and 71 powered trucks 56 years ago. When we got our first 220hp Cummins, we thought we were really cooking.

 

[mbevins]

I think that will depend on the how the engine was marinized. The location of heat exchangers and other installed equipment may preclude some options here.

That's what I'm getting at. I need to drive an 1.5 hours to where it is winter stored Just to get a look.

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[Moonstruck]

I think that will depend on the how the engine was marinized. The location of heat exchangers and other installed equipment may preclude some options here.

That's what I'm getting at. I need to drive an 1.5 hours to where it is winter stored Just to get a look.

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Take pictures and post them. FF seems to know that engine inside out.

 

[Ski in NC]

There are three power take off ports on the back of an inline 671: The two big upper ones are camshaft and balance shaft. They both spin same rpm as crankshaft, and spin in opposite rotation from each other. There is a smaller port right aft of blower drive shaft, that one spins faster than crank/cam/balance shafts, but also probably can handle less load. Depending on what is behind engine, ports may be already used (sea water pump, allison hydraulic, tach sender, small alt, etc. Or access may be obscured by turbo and other stuff.

Post a photo of back of engine.

 

[kulas44]

Correct. There is no difference in truck engines and marine in this regard. A sea water pump will be on one. Allison gears will have a hydraulic pump on the blower drive. Twin disc has it on the trans. The alternator was designed by DD so pto load is not a factor. IIRC, the blower drive is above the cam and balance shaft covers on the v series, below on the inline 1,2,3,4 and 6-71s. It turns at about 2 to 1. The cam and balance shaft turn at 1 to 1. Unlike the cam on a fourstroke that turns at 2 to 1. These 50DN alternators are nowhere near new stuff. They have been used on DDs since the early 60s. We are not inventing the wheel here.

 

[kulas44]

Forgot, the alternator can turn either direction and is geared to make power at idle. The problem with getting an aircooled alt. to make decent power at low rpm is heat. 50DNs are oil cooled so heat is not a problem, hence they can make way more power at low rpm than any other alt. without overheating.

 

[FF]

On GM coaches in order to operate the air cond and have the alt make over the 160A required by the blowers the >hi idle< switch gave about 1100 RPM with an 8V71 as power.

At idle , 400RPM the oil pressure was expected to be below 5psi , so hi idle was required.

 

[kulas44]

The low oil pressure buzzers on DDs will drive you crazy, especially in a sportfisher. We set the idle at about 600 or 650. DD called for 500 to 550. In any case, when you pull back from planing speed to idle the bells and ringers will go off until everything settles down. Later DDs and DDECs had time delays added into the alarms.

 

[mbevins]

So in the perfect world, I throw this bad boy on the back end of my 671 TIB , add a 24V battery bank, preferably GC batteries, add my biggest inverter and turn off the Genny.

I assume I should go to a 3rd party newer style regulator.

Next dumb question, how much load does this unit put on the engine. Yes I know its subject to current draw at the AC side. Will it be greater then a standard belt driven unit?
I ask this because my main purpose for install is preparation for the Loop. When you do the math to run the Genny for the trip it's pretty dear.. It pays for this whole install with change left over. Not to mention the wear on the genny .

I'd hate to give all the fuel back after installing this guy.

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[kulas44]

The thing is, you're running the 6-71 anyway, it's not even close to loaded at 7 or 8 mph. So the big alt. is an excellent tradeoff. Busses usually have gens to but are only used on an overnight stay in a parking lot. As for the load, maybe someone can do the math for us. 270 amp full load at 24 volts converted to killowatts then to hp. It's a bunch. A 15 kw gen burns a bunch in a day. Plus maintenance. ZERO maintenance on the 50DN. You would maybe still run the gen at anchor, if needed. But, anytime the mains are running you wont need the gen, saving hours on it and fuel. Even at 1/2 gallon per hour on the gen, and 8 hours per day run time (optomistic?) that is 4 gpd, or $16. Then upkeep and mechanical depreciation. You would need to crunch your own numbers and see if it works for you. If you cruise a lot it's a no brainer. Anchor out mostly, not so great.

 

[QB]

As for the load, maybe someone can do the math for us. 270 amp full load at 24 volts converted to killowatts then to hp. It's a bunch.

270A * 24V = 6480W = 6.480KW.

6.480 KW * 1.341 hp/KW = 8.690 hp.

 

[Nomad Willy]

QB wow .... and I really like your full displacement boat.

 

[kulas44]

So, bout 9 hp, not such a big deal but more than just about any other alt. available. A 15 kw gen needs about 20 hp so its a decent trade. Unless of course you factor in running the main at lower than optimum loads, then 9 hp is a net gain, unlike the gen, which is total loss. If you have 2 of these you can run all of the ac load you could ever need, as in a twin engine boat. I have found that when I run all day without the ac on it takes hours to get the inside temps liveable in the summer due to heat soak from the engines. With the big alt.s you can crank the cool down and keep a better load on your mains. Win Win.