Are Cell Boosters worth the install/price?

[Boatcrazy]

This may be to simplistic, but in matters electronic.....that's where I'm at. We bought a ATT "Mifi" some years ago-$~115. Yes it's tied to ATT, but it is a small(card deck size) portable, recharged via USB, easily turned on/off that gives us Wifi every where we go....that has ATT coverage. Currently, ATT charges $55/mo for 100mb, renews automatically and I can buy more/cut it off if I need to. It gives us wifi+FireStick, and allows up to 6 devices to connect to it. I also added 2 Wilson amps (one for US cell freqs and one for the rest of the world freqs) and external ant) but so far have not needed them. I'm not a particular ATT fan, but as long as ATT is in the area we get good, fast wifi....and it's simple.

 

[O C Diver]

Can someone put 4LTE reception in layman's terms when comparing a cell phone versus a router hotspot like a Peplink Max BR1 Pro and what you gain by adding a Peplink Maritime G20 antenna?

I understand using my phone over internet. What I'm interested in knowing is if I have one bar on my cell phone, do I get 3 bars (equivalent) with the router and its antennas, and how much better with the external antenna?

Will have a lot of line of site antennas next summer on Lake Superior, but the distance limits connectivity and useful internet.

Ted

 

[ksanders]

Can someone put 4LTE reception in layman's terms when comparing a cell phone versus a router hotspot like a Peplink Max BR1 Pro and what you gain by adding a Peplink Maritime G20 antenna?

I understand using my phone over internet. What I'm interested in knowing is if I have one bar on my cell phone, do I get 3 bars (equivalent) with the router and its antennas, and how much better with the external antenna?

Will have a lot of line of site antennas next summer on Lake Superior, but the distance limits connectivity and useful internet.

Ted

Yes, happy to

First is that any brand hotspot, router, etc... using its OEM antenna is not going to get you any better signal than your good quality phone or Ipad.

The way to get a better signal is to

Elevate the antenna to hopefully clear signal blocking terrain.
Increase Signal strength by having a bit more directional antenna Vs your phone or Ipad. This is the exact same idea as "gain" on your marine VHF. We all know getting your marine VHF antenna higher and using a model with a bit higher "gain" helps. Same thing with cellular.

That is where a mobile router or Hotspot can shine.

I have a mobile router on my boat. Last spring i installed a very good quality external antenna. What I noticed was that with the addition of the external antenna I could gain a couple of bars of signal vs my phone anmd ipad side by side.

What I also noticed was that I could get a pretty good signal, meaning pretty good data rates a few miles further out than before i had the external antenna, in the exact same cruising grounds.

 

[O C Diver]

Yes, happy to

First is that any brand hotspot, router, etc... using its OEM antenna is not going to get you any better signal than your good quality phone or Ipad.

The way to get a better signal is to

Elevate the antenna to hopefully clear signal blocking terrain.
Increase Signal strength by having a bit more directional antenna Vs your phone or Ipad. This is the exact same idea as "gain" on your marine VHF. We all know getting your marine VHF antenna higher and using a model with a bit higher "gain" helps. Same thing with cellular.

That is where a mobile router or Hotspot can shine.

I have a mobile router on my boat. Last spring i installed a very good quality external antenna. What I noticed was that with the addition of the external antenna I could gain a couple of bars of signal vs my phone anmd ipad side by side.

What I also noticed was that I could get a pretty good signal, meaning pretty good data rates a few miles further out than before i had the external antenna, in the exact same cruising grounds.

Ok, so no gain improvement with included router antennas.

So does a good external antenna / router double cell phone calling range, increase it by 50%, or less?

Ted

 

[ksanders]

Ok, so no gain improvement with included router antennas.

So does a good external antenna / router double cell phone calling range, increase it by 50%, or less?

Ted

I have not thought about distance so much as getting a decent signal where I had a marginal one before.

Certainly not doubling your distance though. Nothing that dramatic.

 

[sbman]

Ok, so no gain improvement with included router antennas.

So does a good external antenna / router double cell phone calling range, increase it by 50%, or less?

Ted

Not always. Some devices have better antennas than others. You can put the hotspot somewhere up high as long as it has power and will stay dry, that can help as much as an external antenna in some cases. If you have a flybridge, putting it in the console can be a good spot.

Antennas have to be cabled properly, the shorter the better, if you plan to put a 50' cable on it, don't bother, you'll have more loss in the cable than you'll gain from the antenna. The gain you get will be dependent on how high you put it, how far away it is from other electronics, the antenna performance itself, how far away it is from other antennas and how short the cable is. You usually need at least two antennas as most LTE modems use dual antennas. There is no specific formula for how much better signal you'll get, it depends on too many factors. Done properly and if you have good space to do so, the improvement can be significant.

 

[bowball]

Not always. Some devices have better antennas than others. You can put the hotspot somewhere up high as long as it has power and will stay dry, that can help as much as an external antenna in some cases. If you have a flybridge, putting it in the console can be a good spot.

Antennas have to be cabled properly, the shorter the better, if you plan to put a 50' cable on it, don't bother, you'll have more loss in the cable than you'll gain from the antenna. The gain you get will be dependent on how high you put it, how far away it is from other electronics, the antenna performance itself, how far away it is from other antennas and how short the cable is. You usually need at least two antennas as most LTE modems use dual antennas. There is no specific formula for how much better signal you'll get, it depends on too many factors. Done properly and if you have good space to do so, the improvement can be significant.

Technically two to four antennas is correct but they all can be in the same external antenna device.

 

[Alex F]

... You usually need at least two antennas as most LTE modems use dual antennas. There is no specific formula for how much better signal you'll get, it depends on too many factors. Done properly and if you have good space to do so, the improvement can be significant.

I've tried this with a single antenna and results were disappointing.

I happened to be in the "abstracted signal zone" with towers close by (within 1-2 miles range). My signal is only good enough for basic data usage. For anything more data demanding, including video conference calls, I'm struggling.

My attempt #1:
I have Verizon 4G jetpack (MiFi 8800L). My original idea to improve the signal was getting the antenna, so I purchased 11dB Marine External Antenna Kit For MiFi 8800L. I did not see any improvement by placing the antenna up on the bridge, on the radar arch.

My attempt #2:
I figured that it was time give a cell booster a shot. I bought Wilson Weboost Drive X. Hooked up everything as per their instruction and had no improvement in the cell signal.

My attempt #3:
As per Wilson's recommendation I bought weBoost Home MultiRoom Signal Booster Kit. Hooked it up as per instructions and had Wilson tech verify. The results were disappointing.

I ended up getting latest T-Mobile 5G jetpack, which gave me only slightly better signal, but it's not enough to be a permanent solution, as the signal is still weak.

What would you guys recommend as for the next attempt? Should I give a shot by adding two antennas for the jetpack? If so, which antennas would you recommend?

I understand space separation recommendations, but unfortunately I don't have luxury of having 1' or more between antennas. I have 2 VHF antennas, AIS and Wifi booster antennas on the arch. If I add 2 more antennas they'll have to be less than a foot away from any of the existing antennas. Is that a showstopper?

 

[syjos]

Boosters with an external single antenna were great before LTE. Not so much with LTE relying on multiple antennas and signal paths.

Using a single cell antenna will not improve download speed. I tested a single Digital Antennas cell antenna with my hotspot and though the hotspot showed more bars, the download speed did not improve.

LTE uses MIMO technology so I use a Poynting 402 Omni antenna. It works very well. My Netgear Nighthawk hotspot has two antenna ports.

Using the bars on phone, tablet or hotspot to measure signal strength will not provide useful information. More bars does not guarantee faster speed.

Testing actual ping, download and upload speeds with Speedtest will give an accurate measure of performance.

Here are my findings from this summer using the Poynting 402 and Netgear Nighthawk hotspot:

Cruising San Juans with a Netgear Nighthawk M1 connected to a Poynting Omni 402 MIMO antenna and here are download/upload speeds for T Mobile and Verizon:

Hope Island - Verizon 42/20 - T Mobile 7/22 with antenna and 7/7 without.

Anacortes - Verizon 60/19 - T Mobile 47/29 with antenna and 25/29 without.

Lopez Sound, South end - Verizon 2/0 - T Mobile 24/4 with antenna and 3/2 without.

Garrison Bay - Verizon 3/0 - T Mobile 41/9 with antenna and 35/2 without.

Reid Harbor - Verizon 0/0 - T Mobil 24/1 with antenna and 4/1 without

Friday Harbor - Verizon - 68/37 - T Mobile 28/33 with antenna and 28/33 without.

Parks Bay - Verizon 4/0 - T Mobile 25/2 with antenna and 1/0 without.


Speed via Speedtest.

T Mobile is a Hotspot only 100 gb plan.

Verizon speeds were measured on a Samsung Tablet with no hotspot or signal enhancement on an unlimited phone and data plan.

 

[bowball]

If you were going to spend 80% of your time cruising from Victoria to the Broughtons in BC, and maybe 20% or less in the San Juans, what two cellular carriers would you recommend?

My equipment will either have 2 or 4 sim slots.

T mobile?
Roger’s?
Verizon?
ATT?

Etc

 

[sbman]

I've tried this with a single antenna and results were disappointing.

I happened to be in the "abstracted signal zone" with towers close by (within 1-2 miles range). My signal is only good enough for basic data usage. For anything more data demanding, including video conference calls, I'm struggling.

My attempt #1:
I have Verizon 4G jetpack (MiFi 8800L). My original idea to improve the signal was getting the antenna, so I purchased 11dB Marine External Antenna Kit For MiFi 8800L. I did not see any improvement by placing the antenna up on the bridge, on the radar arch.

My attempt #2:
I figured that it was time give a cell booster a shot. I bought Wilson Weboost Drive X. Hooked up everything as per their instruction and had no improvement in the cell signal.

My attempt #3:
As per Wilson's recommendation I bought weBoost Home MultiRoom Signal Booster Kit. Hooked it up as per instructions and had Wilson tech verify. The results were disappointing.

I ended up getting latest T-Mobile 5G jetpack, which gave me only slightly better signal, but it's not enough to be a permanent solution, as the signal is still weak.

What would you guys recommend as for the next attempt? Should I give a shot by adding two antennas for the jetpack? If so, which antennas would you recommend?

I understand space separation recommendations, but unfortunately I don't have luxury of having 1' or more between antennas. I have 2 VHF antennas, AIS and Wifi booster antennas on the arch. If I add 2 more antennas they'll have to be less than a foot away from any of the existing antennas. Is that a showstopper?

Your best bet is to step up from the consumer grade equipment to something like a Peplink MaxTransit and good Poynting antennas. A forum member here has a ton of writeups on what he uses and what he recommends, all great information. This article is a good place to start:

https://seabits.com/working-remotely-from-the-boat/

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

My son works in the west Texas oil fields were there is very little signals. He recommends this one.

https://www.weboost.com/products/drive4g-x-otr

 

[LovetoBoat]

My son works in the west Texas oil fields were there is very little signals. He recommends this one.

https://www.weboost.com/products/drive4g-x-otr

So I started looking at that - I guess the question is for me - can it hold up to saltwater abuse...


They make a marine one as well - but again I am not sure if I need a boost or do I really need WiFi on my boat with a data plan...

 

[sbman]

So I started looking at that - I guess the question is for me - can it hold up to saltwater abuse...


They make a marine one as well - but again I am not sure if I need a boost or do I really need WiFi on my boat with a data plan...

See post #2, put about as clearly as it can be.

 

[syjos]

So I started looking at that - I guess the question is for me - can it hold up to saltwater abuse...


They make a marine one as well - but again I am not sure if I need a boost or do I really need WiFi on my boat with a data plan...

Unless you're using it on a tender, saltwater abuse should not be an issue. I have consumer grade, non-marine laptops, home electronics, routers and other electronics on board Sandpiper without degradation from salt air. A dehumidifier on board maintains a dry environment.

As I stated earlier, a booster and external antenna is not the best way to improve internet throughput.

I've found that a hotspot or mobile router is, after testing various options, the better way to improve mobile internet reception and speed.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Are the multiple radio routers such as the Peplink offerings configurable for prioritizing data sources, perhaps at a user-configurable up or down speed threshold, ? For example: if I always wanted to "start" with the available external wifi signal from the marina or what have you, but when the download speed falls below a certain threshold then automatically switch to cellular source #1 if available, and then only if not, cellular source #2? Or is this manually managed from a computer interface in an ongoing fashion?

 

[ksanders]

Are the multiple radio routers such as the Peplink offerings configurable for prioritizing data sources, perhaps at a user-configurable up or down speed threshold, ? For example: if I always wanted to "start" with the available external wifi signal from the marina or what have you, but when the download speed falls below a certain threshold then automatically switch to cellular source #1 if available, and then only if not, cellular source #2? Or is this manually managed from a computer interface in an ongoing fashion?

The cradlepoint routers do not offer a source acceptable based on link speed, but I wish they did.

Perhaps Peplink offers this?

You can configure source priority, and you can have a source stability check but this is not a speed test. It is either a DNS server reachable check or a ping check.

My router is configured as 1=ATT, 2=GCI and 3=Satellite I do not use WIFI. I have a unlimited ATT plan and have been getting download speeds typically north of 100MBPS here in Seward.

 

[bowball]

The dome is large and the router small, and operates to 150 degrees temp so I am assuming it will be be fine.

The br1 5G is a great option, new architecture so fast throughout but single cellular radio and I want two. That’s why what I bought will be temporary until peplink uogrades that.

You could be right about the cable length. I decided to try this. Especially as 8 antenna cables gets bulky too.
But I may have to if my experiment doesn’t work out!

I had a change of plan. Since I valued the channel 71 of t mobile so highly, I went with the peplink single radio max br1 5g as well. I’ll try it and can add another one later. The mbx mini was perfect but almost 5x the price!

I’ll still install two antennas to future proof it.

 

[Scottwb96]

In case anyone might be interested in learning a bit more about this, there is a webinar tomorrow morning (9am PST) discussing connectivity. Below is a screenshot of the invite, please feel free to DM me if you want me to send you the registration link as well.

 

[mvweebles]

UPDATE - frustrating experience finally landed through a combination of email from Steve Mithchell and some online probing, primary via 5GStore who I ultimately purchased through as Steve M didn't seem to offer resale.

• Pepwave MAX BR1 Pro with 5G/Cat 20 LTE ($1,499)
• Pepwave AP One AC Mini (Access Point) ($179)
• Pepwave 40G Maritime Antenna ($599)

Total of almost $2500 with shipping and tax.

The challenge for me is, in my opinion, the documentation for all of this stuff is either super detailed gobbly gook or nothing at all. For example, the antenna actually has five outputs - four antenna and one GPS. This may seem normal to those experienced in this, but is a head-banger for those new to this. A call to 5GStore confirmed this, and confirmed these would mate-up to the BR1 Pro router. I will mount the router in an enclosure on the underside of my hard-top which is just a few feet from the antenna so no extension needed. From there, the Access Point (AP) is run via Ethernet cable to the main saloon with PoE injector instead of 24vdc input. For novices reading this, the BR1 Pro router does create a WiFi network so technically, an AP is optional. I opted for it because I am mounting the BR1 Pro up high, beneath my hardtop. I figured might as well bring the signal into the cabin to assure connectivity.

I chose the tres-expensive BR1 Pro router for it's 5G capabilities, which also drove-up the price of the antenna by a couple hundred bucks. 3G was just retired by ATT and VZ and while there is no immediate plan to retire 4G/LTE, I just decided the extra grand for a decent layer of future-proof was a decent choice given the nuisance factor and overall expense of the project.

I'm sure I'll have challenges configuring the system once I get it (I have no idea what configuration "WiFi as WAN" will require) , but at least I have the hardware bits sorted. Again for novices - "WiFi as WAN is Peplink-speak for using the same system to boost marina WiFi signals, not just cellular signals. Will cross that bridge when I come to it.....

Thanks to all

Peter

 

[angus99]

UPDATE - frustrating experience finally landed through a combination of email from Steve Mithchell and some online probing, primary via 5GStore who I ultimately purchased through as Steve M didn't seem to offer resale.

• Pepwave MAX BR1 Pro with 5G/Cat 20 LTE ($1,499)
• Pepwave AP One AC Mini (Access Point) ($179)
• Pepwave 40G Maritime Antenna ($599)

Total of almost $2500 with shipping and tax.

The challenge for me is, in my opinion, the documentation for all of this stuff is either super detailed gobbly gook or nothing at all. For example, the antenna actually has five outputs - four antenna and one GPS. This may seem normal to those experienced in this, but is a head-banger for those new to this. A call to 5GStore confirmed this, and confirmed these would mate-up to the BR1 Pro router. I will mount the router in an enclosure on the underside of my hard-top which is just a few feet from the antenna so no extension needed. From there, the Access Point (AP) is run via Ethernet cable to the main saloon with PoE injector instead of 24vdc input. For novices reading this, the BR1 Pro router does create a WiFi network so technically, an AP is optional. I opted for it because I am mounting the BR1 Pro up high, beneath my hardtop. I figured might as well bring the signal into the cabin to assure connectivity.

I chose the tres-expensive BR1 Pro router for it's 5G capabilities, which also drove-up the price of the antenna by a couple hundred bucks. 3G was just retired by ATT and VZ and while there is no immediate plan to retire 4G/LTE, I just decided the extra grand for a decent layer of future-proof was a decent choice given the nuisance factor and overall expense of the project.

I'm sure I'll have challenges configuring the system once I get it (I have no idea what configuration "WiFi as WAN" will require) , but at least I have the hardware bits sorted. Again for novices - "WiFi as WAN is Peplink-speak for using the same system to boost marina WiFi signals, not just cellular signals. Will cross that bridge when I come to it.....

Thanks to all

Peter

Peter, I had the same issue with some of this gear. Mobile Must Haves has good tech people—just not enough of them and everything is handled via email. Pepwave’s support was beyond useless. Took days for anyone to respond and they clearly want you to rely on their knowledge base or search their forum. Both outfits avoid human contact like, well, geeks.

When I complained, I was told they are an enterprise-level provider and never envisioned their gear would become popular with shmos like me. So they’re not staffed for success. Great equipment, but I wouldn’t expect much hand-holding. (Steve Mitchell, OTOH, was a great help.)

 

[bowball]

UPDATE - frustrating experience finally landed through a combination of email from Steve Mithchell and some online probing, primary via 5GStore who I ultimately purchased through as Steve M didn't seem to offer resale.

• Pepwave MAX BR1 Pro with 5G/Cat 20 LTE ($1,499)
• Pepwave AP One AC Mini (Access Point) ($179)
• Pepwave 40G Maritime Antenna ($599)

Total of almost $2500 with shipping and tax.


Thanks to all

Peter

Peter, I had a very similar set up installed. I think you will like it once it’s sorted out. And you were absolutely correct keeping the distance between antenna and bR1 short.

 

[socalrider]

Thanks - please do keep us posted on your progress in getting it set up. I was looking at a similar configuration as an upgrade to my current simple booster system, probably only 4G though.

 

[Tolly Roger]

I would highly recommend Doug Miller at :https://onboardwireless.com/

He has been very helpful to me in the past (sorting out AIS issues) and now has spun his business into Marine Internet as a specialty.

Super nice guy and very knowledgeable.

 

[Constellation1]

UPDATE - frustrating experience finally landed through a combination of email from Steve Mithchell and some online probing, primary via 5GStore who I ultimately purchased through as Steve M didn't seem to offer resale.

• Pepwave MAX BR1 Pro with 5G/Cat 20 LTE ($1,499)
• Pepwave AP One AC Mini (Access Point) ($179)
• Pepwave 40G Maritime Antenna ($599)

Total of almost $2500 with shipping and tax.

The challenge for me is, in my opinion, the documentation for all of this stuff is either super detailed gobbly gook or nothing at all. For example, the antenna actually has five outputs - four antenna and one GPS. This may seem normal to those experienced in this, but is a head-banger for those new to this. A call to 5GStore confirmed this, and confirmed these would mate-up to the BR1 Pro router. I will mount the router in an enclosure on the underside of my hard-top which is just a few feet from the antenna so no extension needed. From there, the Access Point (AP) is run via Ethernet cable to the main saloon with PoE injector instead of 24vdc input. For novices reading this, the BR1 Pro router does create a WiFi network so technically, an AP is optional. I opted for it because I am mounting the BR1 Pro up high, beneath my hardtop. I figured might as well bring the signal into the cabin to assure connectivity.

I chose the tres-expensive BR1 Pro router for it's 5G capabilities, which also drove-up the price of the antenna by a couple hundred bucks. 3G was just retired by ATT and VZ and while there is no immediate plan to retire 4G/LTE, I just decided the extra grand for a decent layer of future-proof was a decent choice given the nuisance factor and overall expense of the project.

I'm sure I'll have challenges configuring the system once I get it (I have no idea what configuration "WiFi as WAN" will require) , but at least I have the hardware bits sorted. Again for novices - "WiFi as WAN is Peplink-speak for using the same system to boost marina WiFi signals, not just cellular signals. Will cross that bridge when I come to it.....

Thanks to all

Peter

I have this gear onboard and it works VERY well. In my opinion you do need to be fairly technical or have good access to technical support to get it well configured, but once it is ... my experience has been trouble free and consistently fast speeds. I pulled Verizon signal from 15 miles from Marco Island FL the other day - we were out in the Gulf of Mexico. Our phones didn't get signal until we were at ~ 3 miles. Pepwave makes top notch gear.

 

[mvweebles]

I would highly recommend Doug Miller at :https://onboardwireless.com/

He has been very helpful to me in the past (sorting out AIS issues) and now has spun his business into Marine Internet as a specialty.

.......now you tell me!!! I would have purchased via him in a heartbeat. I've had great success with small 1-person shops. Rich at CruiseRO watermakers. DonRowe for Inverters. And a few others. I had hoped Steve Mitchell would be that guy but while he replied to my emails, clearly he was doing it as a favor to a fellow boater and my business was not a close-fit for his business model.

When I originally barged-in on the Booster thread, I expressed frustration that there were technical discussions around components, not much on package solutions. Just seemed like the folks with knowledge had a lot of "it depends" answers.

Look at the picture I pulled from Doug Millers website. Shows 4 cell antenna ports, and 2 WiFi. But when I read through Steve Mitchells website (supported by an email he sent to me), I was unclear whether or not the cell antennas would create some sort of "Wifi as WAN" connection meaning separate WiFi antennae are not needed. This probably seems like a dumb question to wonks who have been doing this for a while, but there is a clear conflict of information to me - the HW is clearly labeled as WiFi antennae, yet I think I'm being told it's not needed. To me, a great example of lots of data but not a lot of usable information.

I'll update as I muddle through this. I may give Doug Miller a call even though I have already purchased from elsewhere. If I need more, he will definitely be my first stop.

Peter

 

[Tolly Roger]

Just so that this is posted here , this link is a Webinar that gets a bit technical but is worth watching:

 

[boathealer]

Depends on where you are planning to go. We spent 3 years on the US East coast and on the entire loop with a mobile hotspot device just sitting up on the nav station.

We used products from a MOFI4500 on AT&T to Verizon MiFi to T-Mobile (various data plans). All worked well. We had TWO (2) places with no or marginal service the entire time - a total of 2 days.

Think about it - if your phone works, the mobile hotspot will work (better) without all those thousands of dollars of antennas and boosters. They have their place, but we didn't need them.

 

[mvweebles]

Depends on where you are planning to go. We spent 3 years on the US East coast and on the entire loop with a mobile hotspot device just sitting up on the nav station.

We used products from a MOFI4500 on AT&T to Verizon MiFi to T-Mobile (various data plans). All worked well. We had TWO (2) places with no or marginal service the entire time - a total of 2 days.

Think about it - if your phone works, the mobile hotspot will work (better) without all those thousands of dollars of antennas and boosters. They have their place, but we didn't need them.

Totally agree - my use-case is headed south from Ensenada MX (which is south of San Diego) to Panama. From there, either ship to Florida, or perhaps continue on her own bottom. Regardless, much different circumstances. Also have IridiumGO for weather - another near-useless item for domestic cruising.

Peter

 

[Scottwb96]

Peter-

You picked great equipment! The external antenna will connect into the back where the regular antenna connectors go.

There's a couple tutorials online you can watch for setting up the wifi at marinas (it grabs the wifi signal from them then disperses on your network). Careful using that though, you would be on a shared public network with everyone else. Just keep that in mind. May want to (if you haven't already) look up ways to set your network up so it's private/secure even over a shared network.