Battery box woes

[mncruiser]

Howdy all,

In process of planning a battery replacement. I've got a 2001 Mainship 390. You can see from the pic, I have 2 8D's. One is starting, one is house...there is also another 4d for house on the other side you can't see. Note the vertical post...I've got limited space to deal with.

Pic -

I'm planning to replace the 8D's with 4x Group 31 AGM's. I really would like to box the batteries, you can see they are kind of strapped down, but FLA's...and really should have been boxed.

I'm having a real hard time finding anything but the super cheap flimsy Group 31 battery boxes with the .12 cent strap. I'd like a box I can secure correctly...more than a strap.

The 8D batteries in there are about 20-1/4" x 11".

I'm not finding much in the way of decent boxes. Now I'm wondering if I should skip the box, and find a nicer tray/hold down system. I *think* since they are AGM's boxing is not required, correct? I know it's a good idea to box them.

Guide me, oh wise TF'ers!

Thank you.

mncruiser

 

[DavidM]

I think ABYC requires battery boxes no matter the type of battery. A zealous surveyor could ding you on a resale survey for lack of them.

But other than that, I agree, just tie or clamp them down to hold down trays. Amazon has them. Camco for clamp type and Noco for tie downs. See https://www.amazon.com/s?k=battery+...ry+hold+d,aps,1373&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_6_14

David

 

[Comodave]

Our Formula came with Gil brackets. They are very sturdy but will not contain spilled liquids. With AGMs and Lithium batteries I just make strong tie downs since there isn’t any liquid to spill. I have used 3/4” plywood as a base and 2x2s as cleats to hold the batteries tightly in place. Then use a S/S ratchet strap and an eye bolt to secure the batteries. ABYC says no more than 1” of movement but I like them tight so they can’t move at all. I use these straps from Amazon.

Keeper (07508) Koastal 8' x 1" Stainless Steel Ratchet Tie Down, (Pack of 2) , Black

 

[Comodave]

I think ABYC requires battery boxes no matter the type of battery. A zealous surveyor could ding you on a resale survey for lack of them.

But other than that, I agree, just tie or clamp them down to hold down trays. Amazon has them. Camco for clamp type and Noco for tie downs. See https://www.amazon.com/s?k=battery+...ry+hold+d,aps,1373&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_6_14

David

Our Formula came with Gil brackets. They surveyor didn’t call them out. So maybe, maybe not?

 

[Bmarler]

at the least there should be some type of protection against short circuit in the event something falls on the batteries though right?
i like to keep batteries in boxes, even if they are the cheap ones. with agms i'll screw through the bottom of the box instead of using those flimsy strap retainers.

 

[Comodave]

I use these to cover the terminals. They are large so the have great coverage, much better than the smaller covers. Got them on Amazon, where else?

MGI SpeedWare Insulated Military Spec Battery Terminal Covers, Top Post Red and Black Pair (4/0 AWG)

 

[78puget-trawler]

Recently had my house 8D fail so we put in a couple of G27's in its place in a big plastic battery box with lid and tie downs.
Those two smaller batteries needed something to keep them from sliding around though, so I cut a couple pcs of 2x4 tight enuf to block them in place, and drove a big screw thru each to they dont bounce out.
The 2 smaller batteries have more CCA than the 8D did. That 8D was old....

 

[syjos]

You could build a custom battery box and lid out of plywood, fiberglass fabric and epoxy. That's what I ended up doing with my house bank.

Pretty simple to build and you can configure it around the post.

Cleats around the base will allow the box to be bolted or screwed down and a strap to hold the lid down.

Though there are other plans available on the web, Nigel Calder has a simple plan and description for building a battery box from plywood, FG fabric and resin in his book Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual. Around page 40 in the second edition.

 

[DDW]

Century Plastics has heavy PE boxes that will hold 4 G31.

 

[Bacchus]

I've been looking at / for GP 31 trays as well. It looks like TH Marine has a decent quality one with a much better than avg hold down strap.
https://www.boatid.com/t-h-marine/b...Il_dBHm1Zmx0OfJfZqhTZvDpmg3vBkQMaAi8SEALw_wcB
I have looked at the ABYC E-10 dealing with battys and all I find is the specifics around need to secure them and it mentions containment but does not limit it to boxes. It also states need to consider battys type for containment but without much detail. The ABYC Std I have found is an older version and don't know if a later version has any more specifics.
I have seen batty trays that state they meet ABYS and USCG standards & reqmts.

Defender carries NOCO batty trays and the description includes the following:
Approvals

Meets Coast Guard (USCG) Code of Federal Regulations 183.420

Meets American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) E-10.7.

American Made

 

[Bacchus]

Here are some excerpts from what I have seen in ABYC E-10

"E-10.7 INSTALLATION
E-10.7.1 If the mounting surfaces of components of the boat in the
immediate vicinity of the battery are of a material attacked by
the electrolyte, a mounting means shall be provided that is made
of material that is not damaged by electrolyte.
E-10.7.2 Provision shall be made to contain leakage and spillage
of electrolyte.

E-10.7.3 Fasteners for the attachment of battery boxes or trays
shall be isolated from areas intended to collect spilled
electrolyte.

NOTE: Consideration should be given to:
a. the type of battery installed (e.g. liquid electrolyte or immobilized electrolyte).
b. the boat in which the battery is installed (e.g. angles of heel for sailboats, and
accelerations for powerboats)"

E-10.7.4 Each installed battery shall not move more than one inch
(25mm) in any direction when a pulling force of 90 pounds (41kg)
or twice the battery weight, whichever is less, is applied through
the center of gravity of the battery as follows; "



Not particularly helpful as there is a lot of room for interpretation... The above is dated and latest ABYC Stds not available to general public w/o membership $$$

 

[mncruiser]

I’m leaning towards boxes, even cheap ones now I guess. Some good ideas above how to secure them.

I like the idea of building them, but I think time and cost to do that right now isn’t realistic for me.

My thought now is to use the cheaper boxes, screw through the bottom, maybe a strap system like Dave suggested for good measure.

I know it’s unlikely, but if the batteries are in a box and something bad happens, there’s at least more than nothing to contain things. And yep, I know AGM’s won’t leak like a FLA. Also, as hard as I try NOT to do it, when I’m down there I put stuff on the top of the batteries all the time. It’s dumb, but it happens. In a box, protects me from myself.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[syjos]

If you secure the boxes with screws in the bottom, inside the box, you will need to cover the screw heads with sealant to prevent corrosion from the acid and to prevent acid from leaking out the screw holes.

It's always better to secure the boxes from the outside like on some battery boxes.

Like this from Amazon:

 

[Arthurc]

If you can find any I’d just build something with Coosa board, super easy to epoxy together and paint, much less mess/work than fiberglass. I have a custom tray for my house bank and crappy boxes for the thruster banks, if I had it to do over I would have had trays made for all of them.
AC

 

[DDW]

The Noco commercial boxes are good, but limited in size selection. The Noco automotive/RV ones are just a light plastic molding and it would be fiddly to have one per battery so eight separate containers each with a lid and straps.

Century Plastics ones are heavy molded polyethylene and are available in a wide selection of styles all with covers. There are dealers in the US. They do not have the external hold down features of the commercial Noco, but the foot print is significantly smaller as a result. I installed them on my recent battery swap, to hold them in place I installed wooden cleats on the shelf with polypropylene straps over the top. I'd have a preference for the Noco commercial ones as a little more convenient to install and access, but I did not have the room and they did not have the right sizes.

 

[mncruiser]

The Noco commercial boxes are good, but limited in size selection. The Noco automotive/RV ones are just a light plastic molding and it would be fiddly to have one per battery so eight separate containers each with a lid and straps.

Century Plastics ones are heavy molded polyethylene and are available in a wide selection of styles all with covers. There are dealers in the US. They do not have the external hold down features of the commercial Noco, but the foot print is significantly smaller as a result. I installed them on my recent battery swap, to hold them in place I installed wooden cleats on the shelf with polypropylene straps over the top. I'd have a preference for the Noco commercial ones as a little more convenient to install and access, but I did not have the room and they did not have the right sizes.

Those Century boxes look great. I’ve got limited space so it fits the bill.

Are the 30h boxes meant for the group 31 batteries? Don’t have my notes handy but they seem close.

 

[Ken E.]

Fisheries Supply in Seattle also has battery boxes.

 

[mncruiser]

I ended up going with the Century Plastics group 31 boxes, 4 of them. They are in Canada, I talked to them this morning and they only distribute to 3-4 places mainly in the Washington state area.

I found a WIDE range of pricing, one online retailer was $200 more than anyone else. PM me for details if interested.

 

[sean9c]

Fisheries Supply has 5 of those Century boxes in stock, retail $87ea

 

[mncruiser]

Fisheries Supply has 5 of those Century boxes in stock, retail $87ea

Thanks. That's quite a bit more (like over $120 more just for the boxes) than I paid, I think they also had really high shipping costs.

I have noticed Fisheries seems to have a great selection, but the prices are very high.

Thanks

 

[syjos]

I have noticed Fisheries seems to have a great selection, but the prices are very high.

Thanks

Fisheries has varying prices based on purchase volume. Person walking through the door pays the most and vendors and trades people the least.

In between those two examples are Yacht Clubs, marina occupants and other groups that receive significant discounts by forming a buyers group.

Orders over $100 get free shipping with a few excluded items or location.

 

[DDW]

Fisheries is not the low price leader for sure.

I bought the Century boxes off the shelf from the Interstate battery dealer in Everett for significantly less than Fisheries price. Shipping on something that size can be a killer.

 

[syjos]

Fisheries is not the low price leader for sure.

I bought the Century boxes off the shelf from the Interstate battery dealer in Everett for significantly less than Fisheries price. Shipping on something that size can be a killer.

Many times I find less or equal price to Fisheries on Amazon. And with my Amazon Credit Card, 5% cash back.

Defender is worth shopping too.

 

[angus99]

Unless things have changed very recently, there is no ABYC requirement to put batteries in boxes—only to secure them from moving more than one inch under specific conditions and provisions made to capture spills which, in the case of AGMs, is virtually impossible.

https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/battery-installation/

 

[Bacchus]

Unless things have changed very recently, there is no ABYC requirement to put batteries in boxes—only to secure them from moving more than one inch under specific conditions and provisions made to capture spills which, in the case of AGMs, is virtually impossible.



https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/battery-installation/

As I see & read it correct, Boxes not reqd. but the excerpts in post #11 above and in the linked Steve D A article, containment of electrolyte needs to be considered and could be cited by surveyors if no box or tray is employed.
See specifically E.10.7.1- 7.3.

I believe there is a new ABYC Std being worked on for LFP battys but dont know if it has been released yet or the details.

 

[angus99]

As I see & read it correct, Boxes not reqd. but the excerpts in post #11 above and in the linked Steve D A article, containment of electrolyte needs to be considered and could be cited by surveyors if no box or tray is employed.
See specifically E.10.7.1- 7.3.

I believe there is a new ABYC Std being worked on for LFP battys but dont know if it has been released yet or the details.

Right, but as I understood Steve D to say, there’s nothing to spill in an AGM; which is why they can be mounted sideways. He also notes—in this article or elsewhere--that many surveyors aren’t fully aware of the standard and apply conventional FLA concerns to AGMs.

 

[Bacchus]

Right, but as I understood Steve D to say, there’s nothing to spill in an AGM; which is why they can be mounted sideways. He also notes—in this article or elsewhere--that many surveyors aren’t fully aware of the standard and apply conventional FLA concerns to AGMs.

No argument with what you say only a caution that some surveyors may not agree. It's unfortunate that ABYC isn't clearer on requirements.
Putting a tray under an AGM isn't a big deal and should get around any surveyor issues.

 

[mncruiser]

Fisheries has varying prices based on purchase volume. Person walking through the door pays the most and vendors and trades people the least.

In between those two examples are Yacht Clubs, marina occupants and other groups that receive significant discounts by forming a buyers group.

Orders over $100 get free shipping with a few excluded items or location.

I'll pay more than amazon/ebay or random on-line sellers for a good selection and supporting small business....but there is a limit. In this case a little google-fu showed me the prices were very different and to shop around.

I've had pretty good luck with Defender, part of their "club" and feel I get decent pricing, and I generally try and buy there first, and only shop around if something feels wrong. Amsoil also has a good buying program for oil and related stuff.

No affiliation with any of the companies mentioned. Just a guy!

 

[angus99]

No argument with what you say only a caution that some surveyors may not agree. It's unfortunate that ABYC isn't clearer on requirements.
Putting a tray under an AGM isn't a big deal and should get around any surveyor issues.

Good point, Don; especially the call for clearer guidelines. Just making the case for those of us who complied with ABYC literally when installing our banks.

 

[DDW]

While AGMs can't really spill, they can outgas in fault situations. My boat had Lifeline 4D in Blue Seas boxes (a private labeled Noco commercial I think). At some point the Xantrex battery charger went crazy and severely overcharged them (this was with the previous owner so details are unknown). It caused the batteries to outgas which discolored and hardened the wiring insulation and corroded the terminals significantly. The discoloration and corrosion was limited to inside the walls of the box, a good thing since they are right next to the aluminum fuel tanks. For that reason when I redid my batteries last year into a different configuration, I still put in Century boxes, though I believe the ABYC does not require them for compliance. There is noxious stuff in most batteries, even if not in liquid form