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Old 06-21-2018, 02:06 PM   #21
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Chris, the OP might benefit from hearing what capacity you drew your AGMs down to before fully re-charging that allowed you to get so many seasons. I got the same out of my AGMs and I never let them get below around 35% discharged.
Good point.

We almost always started recharging at least when one or the other of our main banks got down to 50% SOC as estimated from a simple voltage reading. That doesn't mean we always (or even often) drew them down to 50%, though... that was just a lower limit we always tried to respect.

A very few times, 2 or 3 maybe, we drew that bank down to where I had to use my parallel switch to restart our starboard engine. These are dual purpose start/half-of-house banks; those instances were as we were trolling for extended periods on the opposite engine (i.e., with the starboard engine off)... and with all our bridge electronics running from that starboard bank.

And then our normal regime at anchor is twice/day using the genset and charger, coinciding with cooking times and making hot water, etc... no matter what the battery SOC was. We rarely anchor for more than a week or two at a time.

And then we'd usually be back at the dock, shore power, etc.

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Old 06-22-2018, 05:20 AM   #22
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"We almost always started recharging at least when one or the other of our main banks got down to 50% SOC as estimated from a simple voltage reading."

This is very difficult as for voltage to be used as a measure the batt has to be out of the system for may hours.

A SOC meter will be far more accurate. About $150 + install.
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:02 AM   #23
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"We almost always started recharging at least when one or the other of our main banks got down to 50% SOC as estimated from a simple voltage reading."

This is very difficult as for voltage to be used as a measure the batt has to be out of the system for may hours.

A SOC meter will be far more accurate. About $150 + install.

Yeah, sure... but it was close enough for our purposes. I haven't felt like I need all that much better accuracy...

Especially after reading about all the work it takes to calibrate most SOC meters... and to keep them calibrated over the life of a battery bank...

-Chris
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Old 06-23-2018, 02:37 PM   #24
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Thanks for the advice everyone, I’m going to go with upgraded L16 AGM (400ah at 6v) batteries which should boost my amp hours to 1200, will see how that does for the summer trip. I did find a place to put 2 more so going to 1600ah wouldn’t be super hard.

Will re-evaluate this fall. Appreciate the advice, super helpful (as always).
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:39 PM   #25
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Yeah, sure... but it was close enough for our purposes. I haven't felt like I need all that much better accuracy...



Especially after reading about all the work it takes to calibrate most SOC meters... and to keep them calibrated over the life of a battery bank...



-Chris


Second time I have link this article that CMS wrote. Balmar Smart Gauge is very easy to install, self calibrating, and sounds perfect for an simpleton such as myself.

https://marinehowto.com/smart-gauge-...nitoring-unit/
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Old 06-24-2018, 06:25 AM   #26
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Second time I have link this article that CMS wrote. Balmar Smart Gauge is very easy to install, self calibrating, and sounds perfect for an simpleton such as myself.

https://marinehowto.com/smart-gauge-...nitoring-unit/

Thanks. Yep, I've read those... along with the bazillions of posts on CF about calibrating this, that, and the other monitoring system. Just seems to be too much work for too little gain, to me. (And BTW, several of the posts on CF about the Smart Gauge make that "self-calibrating" thing seem like a stretch...)

But I admit I do try not to be a slave to the boat, so when I can eliminate a chore (servicing batteries, for example) I'll often opt for that when my wallet thinks it's viable. Hence our AGMs, although in our case that was also driven by the extra amount of work would take to service ours due to access issues. And hence my not wanting to add something that will then require my attention.

Anyway, when it comes to batteries in general, I've taken the line of least resistance: add as much capacity as is easily possible, then work with what we've got as best we can.

But in general, because of our "cruising" style (such as it is) and because of our cooking/hot water systems, we've usually gotta run the genset a couple of times/day at anchor anyway... so installing and then yutzing around with a monitor to keep it accurate down to the last amp... really wouldn't change that behavior, anyway.

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Old 06-24-2018, 09:55 AM   #27
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"so installing and then yutzing around with a monitor to keep it accurate down to the last amp... really wouldn't change that behavior, anyway."


Worrying about the "last amp" is only worthwhile to be sure the batt set is up to 100% charged fairly often..


Bouncing between 40%-50% full and 85-90% full is what most cruisers do as that last 10% takes noise making "forever" or the dock, or solar.


Going much below the usual 50% and NOT getting to 100% fairly often is what harms batts.


The usual cure is to oversize the set so as the loss accumulates there is still enough left for a good std of living.
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:09 PM   #28
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But in general, because of our "cruising" style (such as it is) and because of our cooking/hot water systems, we've usually gotta run the genset a couple of times/day at anchor anyway... so installing and then yutzing around with a monitor to keep it accurate down to the last amp... really wouldn't change that behavior, anyway.

I get what you are saying. There are some things that I enjoy messing around with and other stuff that I’d just rather not do (washing and waxing for example).

So often folks on forums (like me) can get lost in the minutiae. Yes, a coulomb counter should be properly setup and it should be properly synchronized with the battery bank and the setup should be adjusted each year to account for the loss of the bank capacity. Some would suggest doing a load test to find out exactly what the Ah capacity of the bank is so that you can properly setup the amp counter. I’m not smart or patient enough to do all that.

That is why the idea of the Smart Gauge appeals to me. It will tell me what the SOC is on the bank while it is being discharged. If want to keep the state of charge of my bank over 70%, I can use it to help me do that. Of course, I don’t know anything, but I do trust a professional that does. This is just a cut from the article I referenced before by Rod Collins’ (CMS or MaineSail) on his website.

“The difference is the Smart Gauge does this quite accurately and tracks SOC regardless of temperature, battery age etc.. The longer you use the Smart Gauge, and leave it connected to the bank, the more accurate it becomes.”

No one needs to use a battery monitor. OTOH, with a simple tool like this, I don’t think anyone should feel it would be a hassle to use. The only reason I have not installed one yet is that I’m kind of lazy. I also am still trying to find a good location to mount it in my boat. I think I am going to try and come up with a box so i can do a surface mount rather than cutting a large hole in my teak somewhere.
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:21 PM   #29
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I get what you are saying. There are some things that I enjoy messing around with and other stuff that I’d just rather not do (washing and waxing for example).

So often folks on forums (like me) can get lost in the minutiae. Yes, a coulomb counter should be properly setup and it should be properly synchronized with the battery bank and the setup should be adjusted each year to account for the loss of the bank capacity. Some would suggest doing a load test to find out exactly what the Ah capacity of the bank is so that you can properly setup the amp counter. I’m not smart or patient enough to do all that.

That is why the idea of the Smart Gauge appeals to me. It will tell me what the SOC is on the bank while it is being discharged. If want to keep the state of charge of my bank over 70%, I can use it to help me do that. Of course, I don’t know anything, but I do trust a professional that does. This is just a cut from the article I referenced before by Rod Collins’ (CMS or MaineSail) on his website.

“The difference is the Smart Gauge does this quite accurately and tracks SOC regardless of temperature, battery age etc.. The longer you use the Smart Gauge, and leave it connected to the bank, the more accurate it becomes.”

No one needs to use a battery monitor. OTOH, with a simple tool like this, I don’t think anyone should feel it would be a hassle to use. The only reason I have not installed one yet is that I’m kind of lazy. I also am still trying to find a good location to mount it in my boat. I think I am going to try and come up with a box so i can do a surface mount rather than cutting a large hole in my teak somewhere.
I can't use a Smart Gauge on Li batteries, but was surprised at how accurately the old Link 2000 is. Shows me how many amps have been taken out, and I know it is accurate because if I let the charge source continue to pump current to the batteries after the acceptance rate drops quickly from 200 amps to 20, the voltage starts going up fast, which is the expected behavior for this battery chemistry when it is full.

The Link 2000 is a piece of cake to install..
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:44 PM   #30
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Turns 8 camera NVR off and goes back to bed.
Reality is it probably doesn't use much but it still uses.
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:56 PM   #31
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"..


Bouncing between 40%-50% full and 85-90% full is what most cruisers do as that last 10% takes noise making "forever" or the dock, or solar.
It takes forever if you don't have the right gear.

7:46am now, genset has been on for 45 mins. Another 15 minutes and the batteries will be at 95% and electric HWS will be at 54c at probe and genset will be off.

HWS finished off to 60c at probe by batteries and solar from 9am on (sun is higher, more amps in)
By lunchtime the batteries will read 100% with 30+ amps still going in via solar

This is winter.
In summer no genset required, everything done by lunchtime and the amps smashing in.
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Old 06-25-2018, 06:39 AM   #32
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“The difference is the Smart Gauge does this quite accurately and tracks SOC regardless of temperature, battery age etc.. The longer you use the Smart Gauge, and leave it connected to the bank, the more accurate it becomes.”

No one needs to use a battery monitor. OTOH, with a simple tool like this, I don’t think anyone should feel it would be a hassle to use. The only reason I have not installed one yet is that I’m kind of lazy. I also am still trying to find a good location to mount it in my boat.

I can usually do "lazy" reasonably well.

Of the products I've seen mentioned over the last several years, the SG does seem easiest to deal with... so I actually have it on my list of "stuff to do sometime, if the mood strikes, the wallet concurs, nothing else is pressing, and I can work out some kind of elegant mounting location."

In our case, given the battery configuration, I'd need two, and likely easiest mounting locations would be on each side of the saloon. Great.

But the remote for our new-ish inverter/charger is sure enough on the "other" side of the saloon from our electric panel, and that's worked at least well enough...

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