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Old 10-26-2020, 02:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
DW ...but thats not what you insinuated.


While a MOB device is great....until them, recovery of MOBs by the vessel they fell off of wasn't great for many reasons...even then some take hours to turn and locate the MOB. Hip said it right...the best solution is dont go overboard or be attached.
==============================================
well said
I sail (sailboat) but applies to any overnight coastal passage motor or sail.
I single hand so do not have to worry about been picked up from the water: if I fall, I die, simple as that.
I found the only well documented system and research that shows 100% survival rate is NOT TO FALL OVERBOARD.
=============================================
Now occasionally do take crew, first I explain that in my boat there is no MOB system but IOB (Idiot Over Board) that is to emphasize how difficult is to rescue somebody floating in the water at night, and having a MOB system does not mean they will get back On Board.
Even if alerted on time, turning back on difficult weather and sea conditions, and if the person in the water is hypothermic and unable to assist on been lift to deck (do you have a system?)
Hope the message gets thru.
===========================================
With that introduction I do provide the person on watch with personal locators both EPIRB and AIS as well as a hand-held radio to allow to interact.
Have a VESPER AIS transponder and blue toothed to tablets and cells been used for navigation so in theory can locate them in addition to the Vesper screen
===========================================
Because my boat is a sail boat the cockpit has anchoring thru bolted as well on deck securing stainless places to hook the harness, before stepping out of the cabin, have renewed all tethers with double (short and long) the new springy coiled type that do not get tangled on everything as well as replaced all lifejackets with the new type with integrated rings where to hook up the tethers.
Since I am in the process to transition to powerboating will adapt same to flybridge and stairs going down, any time I leave the safety of a cabin MUST be secure to the right side of the boat, seen a video of a skipper been thrown out from the upper bridge when the boat was caught on a broad side wave on an inlet entrance!!
=========================================
Serious business
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Old 10-26-2020, 04:58 PM   #22
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Have done SAS safety at sea several times through the years. Also a member of OCC (Ocean Cruising Club) and Salty Dawg. Do blue water transits. Try to stay abreast on this subject. We are mom and pop cruisers 99% of the time.
Things I’ve glean from the literature and having done multiple man overboard exercises in a variety of conditions.
Fiinding a mob( man overboard) is ridiculously hard. Even with an AIS device. Without either a personal AIS and/or gps and a marker like a MOM-8 person will be likely dead from hypothermia before retrieval if you’re above 40N or in open ocean. Don’t fall off the boat.
Retrieval of a person is ridiculously hard. Nearly impossible for a single individual if the mom is unconscious. Don’t fall off the boat.
We did training with 2 licensed captains, me and my wife to help train her before her first passage. We did it in 2 to 3 ft. seas, middle of clear days and again at night. We tried to retrieve a 40” bright orange and white beachball. We knew when it was tossed over board.In spite of all those advantages we couldn’t find it. No current and light air.
We’ve tried to pull someone aboard. This was done while anchored. Used the female captain ( maybe 120lbs. as the mob) Again no one could pull her aboard by themselves.
We keep reading about crew falling off the boat and drowning as they are pulled along by their harness facing the oncoming water.
So at present when either captain or serving as crew my rules are:
Practice man overboard drills before leaving and periodically.
Test your man overboard equipment periodically including manual inflation and leaving PDFs inflation for 18 h before deflation.
Have both AIS/gps on personal gear. Have cold water one (I use a Baltic) and a warm weather on board ( we use mustang and spinlock). Use only hydrostatic releases.
If leaving the Portuguese bridge be harnessed. Have harness points and jacklines if necessary. Especially at night or in any kind of seaway or singling. Harnesses should have two lengths so while working outside when harnessed you can’t reach the edge of the boat. Usually 3’ and 6’. They say harnesses save your life. PFDs give you a body to bury.
Harnessing is routine on sailboats. My power friends who were sailors use them when circumstances dictate but all to many resist their use even when they know they maybe on deck for awhile fixing something even at night.
We have a personal rule no one goes on deck at night without waking someone up to watch them.
So we cruise and will continue to power cruise with
A certified ocean raft at least sized for number of people aboard. Coastal rafts make no sense to me even if your never going offshore. A single layer of tube, no protection from the elements inadequate floor to protect you from hypothermia.
Both AIS and gps enabled devices
Hydrostatic releases on PDFs or closed foam like a Baltic. With crotch straps, hood, light, whistle etc.
Periodic training.
Periodic testing of devices.
But equally important
A life sling or other equal device for retrieval with arrangements to get mechanical advantage. Either davits, winches or other.
A MOM-8 or equivalent locating device. All crew trained that their first move is stop the boat. Second deployment of the MOM device. Third wake everyone up while trying to keep mom in sight.
My 2 cents.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:06 PM   #23
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Sounds like the belt and suspenders approach is to have both the PLB and the AIS MOB on the PFDs for those like the OP are offshore and minimally crewed.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippocampus View Post
Have done SAS safety at sea several times through the years. Also a member of OCC (Ocean Cruising Club) and Salty Dawg. Do blue water transits. Try to stay abreast on this subject. We are mom and pop cruisers 99% of the time.
Things I’ve glean from the literature and having done multiple man overboard exercises in a variety of conditions.
Fiinding a mob( man overboard) is ridiculously hard. Even with an AIS device. Without either a personal AIS and/or gps and a marker like a MOM-8 person will be likely dead from hypothermia before retrieval if you’re above 40N or in open ocean. Don’t fall off the boat.
Retrieval of a person is ridiculously hard. Nearly impossible for a single individual if the mom is unconscious. Don’t fall off the boat.
We did training with 2 licensed captains, me and my wife to help train her before her first passage. We did it in 2 to 3 ft. seas, middle of clear days and again at night. We tried to retrieve a 40” bright orange and white beachball. We knew when it was tossed over board.In spite of all those advantages we couldn’t find it. No current and light air.
We’ve tried to pull someone aboard. This was done while anchored. Used the female captain ( maybe 120lbs. as the mob) Again no one could pull her aboard by themselves.
We keep reading about crew falling off the boat and drowning as they are pulled along by their harness facing the oncoming water.
So at present when either captain or serving as crew my rules are:
Practice man overboard drills before leaving and periodically.
Test your man overboard equipment periodically including manual inflation and leaving PDFs inflation for 18 h before deflation.
Have both AIS/gps on personal gear. Have cold water one (I use a Baltic) and a warm weather on board ( we use mustang and spinlock). Use only hydrostatic releases.
If leaving the Portuguese bridge be harnessed. Have harness points and jacklines if necessary. Especially at night or in any kind of seaway or singling. Harnesses should have two lengths so while working outside when harnessed you can’t reach the edge of the boat. Usually 3’ and 6’. They say harnesses save your life. PFDs give you a body to bury.
Harnessing is routine on sailboats. My power friends who were sailors use them when circumstances dictate but all to many resist their use even when they know they maybe on deck for awhile fixing something even at night.
We have a personal rule no one goes on deck at night without waking someone up to watch them.
So we cruise and will continue to power cruise with
A certified ocean raft at least sized for number of people aboard. Coastal rafts make no sense to me even if your never going offshore. A single layer of tube, no protection from the elements inadequate floor to protect you from hypothermia.
Both AIS and gps enabled devices
Hydrostatic releases on PDFs or closed foam like a Baltic. With crotch straps, hood, light, whistle etc.
Periodic training.
Periodic testing of devices.
But equally important
A life sling or other equal device for retrieval with arrangements to get mechanical advantage. Either davits, winches or other.
A MOM-8 or equivalent locating device. All crew trained that their first move is stop the boat. Second deployment of the MOM device. Third wake everyone up while trying to keep mom in sight.
My 2 cents.
================================================
Amen

thank you for taking the time to write a comprehensive, detailed and organized review on the subject.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:08 PM   #25
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Since your are thinking of adding full AIS, check out this unit. I just posted another thread about this. ANd it does have many functions as it relates to alarms including AIS MOB functions.

https://www2.vespermarine.com/cortex/vhf
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Old 10-27-2020, 01:06 AM   #26
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MISSIONS:
-Single handing/watch: OLAS https://www.acrartex.com/survival-products/acr-olas. Option provides engine shutoff for MOB. You swim to boat.

-PLB w/GPS. MOB: Have strobe too. GPS offers your drifting w/current and/or wind location.

-Eprib for boat. Good if boat stays afloat.

-PLB: Good for boat sinking, as crew/passengers likely will be split up and distanced at rescue.

- And so on. Cover your mission profile with appropriate options. Have a plan B,C,D...
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Old 10-27-2020, 02:00 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by gilbertpark View Post
I have AIS MOB on my lifejacket but I also have the OLAS system "wrist watch" that means if someone falls overboard the engine (s) switch off (Outboards at the moment). They can easily be restarted by the remaining crew on board to facilitate a rescue. If you are single handed this means you can swim to the boat as its not far away and in addition it will send an emergency sms to a nominated number. I do also have PLBs, EPIRBs and a SPOT and use them according to what I am doing.
I hate that thing about an SMS to a nominated number. No one ever replies to my texts. Not even the wife. I'd probably be better off texting TikToc.
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Old 10-27-2020, 02:21 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippocampus View Post
Don’t fall off the boat.
Retrieval of a person is ridiculously hard. Nearly impossible for a single individual if the mom is unconscious.
We’ve tried to pull someone aboard. This was done while anchored. Used the female captain ( maybe 120lbs. as the mob) Again no one could pull her aboard by themselves.
.
I worked in public safety for decades. What you say is true. Dealing with a truly unconscious (or newly deceased) human is extremely difficult. It's not like carrying a drunk or sleeping person. The patient's muscles relax and are flacid. It's like trying to pick up a big glob of jelly. They run right through your arms. We had special methods of doing it, even a little ole lady took two of us, and I was a lot younger and stronger then and we were doing it on LAND, not on a pitching boat deck. The patient was right the hell in front of us on the floor or in a street, Not 5' below us face down in water. It's hard to do even in controlled circumstances.
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Old 10-27-2020, 02:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil1 View Post
==============================================
if I fall, I die, simple as that.
I found the only well documented system and research that shows 100% survival rate is NOT TO FALL OVERBOARD.
=============================================
I love this. Best safety device is between your ears. If you're breaking out the EPIRBS, the flares, the AIS beacons, the decoder rings, you're screwed. You're behind 0-2 to Justin Verlander...and you're wearing a blindfold.
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Old 12-13-2020, 09:23 PM   #30
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OK Dave. Which ones are your referring to? I have no clue from your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
That is the ones that we have. I have had years of experience with them so I bought those for our personal PFDs.
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Old 12-13-2020, 10:57 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Caballero II View Post
OK Dave. Which ones are your referring to? I have no clue from your post.
I was referring to the ACR PLBs. Personal Locator Beacon. We used that brand in the CG Auxiliary so I bought them for our wearable auto inflatable PFDs. We have the PLB and a strobe light attached to the PFD.
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