4D Battery Watering

[Roger Long]

A half day of Googling, emails, and phone calls has failed to turn up any evidence that there is a battering watering system or vent valves available for these 4D batteries. Threaded caps, flush or not, seem to be the issue for all group types. I hope someone here can prove me wrong because I'm tired of adding water with my eyes just a few inches above the vents.

 

[Old Sea Dog]

All I have ever used to add distilled water to my batteries is a turkey baster. Using a good flashlight, I can see into each cell, at least 18" away to add water.

Sent from my SM-G715U1 using Trawler Forum mobile app

 

[Roger Long]

All I have ever used to add distilled water to my batteries is a turkey baster.

Exactly what I've been doing. Thus the post. It's difficult and potentially dangerous on our boat so I don't do it as often as I should. I'd like to treat the two new batteries I just bought better.

 

[C lectric]

https://www.flowsystemsusa.com/water-miser-vent-cap.html

Maybe the above can help..

I don't have the sites but there were/are systems that join all cells caps together allowing the cells to be rewatered all at the same time without overfilling.
Have you actually gone to some of the battery shops and asked about watering systems. Target the more industrial type of battery supplier.
Sometimes the internet is NOT the best research tool.

I had a shelf overtop of the batteries. I hole sawed holes in the shelf to improve access. I then could use a small flashlight, and mirror to see.

Then I bought a plant watering container, about 2 litres, which could be pressurized and once the wand was in position I then pressed the release lever and the water topped up the cells.

Twas far better than what I used to do which sounds similar to what you are going through.

How about this:

https://batterywatering.com/collections/basic-commercial-kits

https://batterywatering.com/pages/commercial

 

[Montenido]

Roger,

I had one of those watering systems on Ansedonia for several years on my house bank, which has 6 tall 6v batteries. Although it would load over a gallon each time I used it, when I finally visually inspected them, the top of all the grids were dry! I took the system out after that.

BTW, I have a used RV watering system that I will let go for $25 plus shipping.

Cheers, Bill

 

[Comodave]

I used this water jug to water mine. Got it on Amazon for about $15.

Golf Cart / Deep Cycle Battery Jug Water Filler Bottle w/ Auto Shut Off

 

[CMS]

I don't know of any watering systems for starting/dual purpose batteries?

 

[jgwinks]

Check Flo-rite.com. Phone is 616-538-1700. Local company here in Grand Rapids. MI. They have systems for many different battery types, marine, RV and industrial. I don't know what caps your battery has, I'd call and see if they can match them. I've been using them for years on grp 31 and GC batteries. Good stuff.

 

[Roger Long]

Check Flo-rite.com.

I did. No joy.

 

[Roger Long]

A Facebook site turned up these which I think are actually a better solution for me than a bunch of tubing running around and the potential for one of 12 valves to miss-function.


NAPA Part Number 7001161 is similar.

 

[fgarriso]

I always buy AGM batteries because of this.

 

[Portage_Bay]

A Facebook site turned up these which I think are actually a better solution for me than a bunch of tubing running around and the potential for one of 12 valves to miss-function.


NAPA Part Number 7001161 is similar.

That's what I use. They auto stop at the correct level.

 

[BruceK]

A half day of Googling, emails, and phone calls has failed to turn up any evidence that there is a battering watering system or vent valves available for these 4D batteries. Threaded caps, flush or not, seem to be the issue for all group types. I hope someone here can prove me wrong because I'm tired of adding water with my eyes just a few inches above the vents.

Just to be clear, are you watering so called "sealed" batteries, not batteries with conventional screw caps?

 

[Bacchus]

Just to be clear, are you watering so called "sealed" batteries, not batteries with conventional screw caps?

I wondered about that from the pic but looking at the East Penn info they are listed as flooded...?

 

[sunchaser]

I wondered about that from the pic but looking at the East Penn info they are listed as flooded...?

After 7 decades of FLAs I was never aware they were so much trouble.

FLA batteries can indeed be sealed. My engines and genset batteries are so equipped. It is not recommended or necessary to "unseal" them to add water. AGMs are sealed wet acids too but with a different sponge like plate design and liquid electrolyte.

BTW, use safety glasses, disposable clothing (religious attire as my wife calls it) and rubber gloves when adding water to FLAs.

 

[Roger Long]

I wondered about that from the pic but looking at the East Penn info they are listed as flooded...?

The caps are flush but unscrew and the batteries do lose water slowly. They are conventional flooded architecture inside.

 

[Roger Long]

I always buy AGM batteries because of this.

I used them on my sailboat for that reason and because of greater chance of spillage in a knockdown. This trawler came with the 4D flooded and I needed to replace them in an afternoon because of sudden failure and AGM was not available. The price of replacing them with AGM might be worth it but not the work of getting them in and out. Yikes!


Incidentally, my sailboat ran thousands of miles, much of it under power, with a standard alternator charging the batteries and they did fine. I ran them dead, dead, flat once when the boat was on the hard and the hose broke off the bilge pump so it just ran for days pumping rain water. I recharged them and they were still going 3 years later.

 

[Flatswing]

A half day of Googling, emails, and phone calls has failed to turn up any evidence that there is a battering watering system or vent valves available for these 4D batteries. Threaded caps, flush or not, seem to be the issue for all group types. I hope someone here can prove me wrong because I'm tired of adding water with my eyes just a few inches above the vents.

These are heavy duty commercial batteries designed to be no/low maintenance. They provide great vibration resistance and a ton of CCA for a reasonable price. I Use 4 of the Grp 31 versions for my generator & main engine start batteries. I have never peeled off the decal to access the watering caps ‘cus I just use them for start functions. Since that is their intended purpose, likely no watering caps are made for them. (I also have FLA GC2 & L16’s with a battery watering system as my house bank -takes 5 minutes to water “inaccessible” banks).

You didn’t describe how you use them, or how you recharge them. If they are being used for house batteries with longer discharge/charge cycles, it probably explains the high water requirements. East Penn/‘Deka doesn’t even provide the float/absorption parameters for these Heavy Duty Commercial Service Batteries, ‘cus they are usually charged by internally regulated engine alternators. Bottom line: you have to continue with manual watering.

 

[sunchaser]

The caps are flush but unscrew and the batteries do lose water slowly. They are conventional flooded architecture inside.

If your batteries are VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) or sealed they won't lose water. VRLA are lead acid but without antimony. Regular FLAs have antimony and designed to lose water. VRLA batteries have flush caps, what is your battery model?

 

[Roger Long]

If your batteries are VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) or sealed they won't lose water. VRLA are lead acid but without antimony. Regular FLAs have antimony and designed to lose water. VRLA batteries have flush caps, what is your battery model?

Deka 904D. The caps are flush with a slot to unscrew them.

 

[Roger Long]

You didn’t describe how you use them, or how you recharge them.

It's a 1975 twin screw trawler with alternators of that period. There is also a marine battery charger which I turn off when engines are running. Since we have a generator with a completely separate starting battery, I always keep the battery selector switch on both and treat them as a single bank to cut the nightly house draw down in half. Our 12 volt loads are low, just anchor lights and interior lighting. I keep an eye on battery voltage, never higher than 14 volts when engines running or battery charger on. Batteries generally are at 13 volts in the morning. I knew the old ones were going when I found them at 10 volts just before the morning generator start. They would still start the engines briskly after our normal two hour generator run to get our 110 volt fridge cold and re-charge the batteries. Got 6 years out of these same batteries which is more than I have been told to expect despite running them down too low to start the engines a couple of times after working in the engine room too long with the lights on and not watering them often enough so that I saw about 1/8 inch of dry plates a couple of times.

 

[Bacchus]

I used them on my sailboat for that reason and because of greater chance of spillage in a knockdown. This trawler came with the 4D flooded and I needed to replace them in an afternoon because of sudden failure and AGM was not available. The price of replacing them with AGM might be worth it but not the work of getting them in and out. Yikes!


Incidentally, my sailboat ran thousands of miles, much of it under power, with a standard alternator charging the batteries and they did fine. I ran them dead, dead, flat once when the boat was on the hard and the hose broke off the bilge pump so it just ran for days pumping rain water. I recharged them and they were still going 3 years later.

I have 3 8D AGMs in pur boat and will not replace in kind when needed.
My plan is to use a pair of GP31 AGM to replace each 8D. When I asked East Penn & Trojan whether there was advantage to use GP31 for start & GC for house both responded that with AGM either configuration are equally acceptable for deep cycle or start. They didn't elaborate but my assumption is that there is no difference in plate design or depth below plates in the AGM battys.
My 8D AGMs have completed 8 seasons and still going strong but I am keeping an eye on them via a monitoring system I installed a year or so ago.

I am familiar with the sealed LA battys as I have a pair of East Penn (Freightliner / Alliance ) GP31 for chassis / start in my diesel motorhome. I just replaced the pair that was OEM and 10 yes old with identical East Penn ( NAPA). The old ones still started the DP and V tested OK, CCA was down to 50% of spec. I thought those were typically listed as maint free instead of just FLA.

 

[sunchaser]

Deka 904D. The caps are flush with a slot to unscrew them.

Deka terms these a maintenance free battery. Are the plates showing when you unscrew the caps?

 

[Roger Long]

Deka terms these a maintenance free battery. Are the plates showing when you unscrew the caps?

Yes, if the water gets low enough. Maybe "Maintenance Free" means until you replace them.


Later:


Says right here:

 

[Roger Long]

Not too impressed with the NAPA jug. There is a flaw in the spigot for the cap so water runs out when it is tipped. Says it's safe for use with battery acid for filling dry batteries. I think not. If you push the spigot valve all the way down, it would fill the battery right to the brim with no room for expansion. Does work if you just push it enough for the flow to just start. I could make it work with the distilled water but I think I'll order the other kind and try that.

 

[sunchaser]

Not too impressed with the NAPA jug. There is a flaw in the spigot for the cap so water runs out when it is tipped. Says it's safe for use with battery acid for filling dry batteries. I think not. If you push the spigot valve all the way down, it would fill the battery right to the brim with no room for expansion. Does work if you just push it enough for the flow to just start. I could make it work with the distilled water but I think I'll order the other kind and try that.

Given you have flush caps the auto watering jugs may be a challenge due to their "made for caps" design. I've used sealed LAs for nigh 40 years and never had to add water, whether boats, cars or trucks so cannot suggest a purchased jug that would work.

On my T105 house bank a plastic cup and funnel is my exotic device.

 

[BruceK]

So,per Sunchaser, the mfr says they are 'maintenance free", but you treat them as "low maintenance". It can`t be easy to unscrew flush caps and every time probably does some violence to the groove in the screwcap.

I suspect it`s too much to expect a watering system exists, but hopefully you find one. It must be difficult topping up,I`m assuming they need to fill right up,opening the way for overflow spillage. It`s hard enough manually topping up elevated screw cap batts avoiding a spill, before I moved to "sealed" I used the little oblong beaker that comes with the household clothes iron.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Not too impressed with the NAPA jug. There is a flaw in the spigot for the cap so water runs out when it is tipped. Says it's safe for use with battery acid for filling dry batteries. I think not. If you push the spigot valve all the way down, it would fill the battery right to the brim with no room for expansion. Does work if you just push it enough for the flow to just start. I could make it work with the distilled water but I think I'll order the other kind and try that.

I wonder if the one you purchased is defective? It shouldn't leak when tipped over. It should stop filling the cell when the spout touches the surface of the electrolyte. Maybe yours has a crack or some defect that allows air to enter the bottle other than through the spout.

I don't fill it 100% full. Nor do I try to run it completely dry. It wants some air in the bottle but not too much. Takes a little practice.

You should hear some glugging as it fills a cell. The signal it is working properly.

 

[Bmarler]

Yes, if the water gets low enough. Maybe "Maintenance Free" means until you replace them.


Later:


Says right here:

You leave the battery charger on all the time? You mentioned that it’s a marine charger, but is it a three stage charger with the right float voltage?
If it’s an older, less optioned charger you may want to replace it, or use a maintainer instead.

 

[Roger Long]

You leave the battery charger on all the time?

No. They are primarily charged by the alternators. We run the generator a couple hours in the morning to have them fresh for engine starting. We mostly anchor. During the once or twice a month we are in a marina on shore power, I leave the charger on. Whenever we leave the boat to go home, I leave it unplugged. The bilge pumps are directly connected to the batteries (with a fuse) as they should be.