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Old 11-22-2022, 06:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by LeoKa View Post
Take a look at this one. It handles two shore power connections, even at 50A. The price is around $600. From this one, the rest of the existing panels can be branched out.

https://www.go2marine.com/Paneltroni...ty=1&type=1240


I am just thinking out loud here. If this can take two 50A connections, all I need is two 50A receptacles and wiring. The description says that it can handle two individual hot and neutral bars. I suppose this will allow me to connect to either 30A or 50A pedestals. Unless I misunderstand the description.

That panel lets you select between two shore cords and a generator, but you can only use one at a time. There is no provision to combine anything.


You only have two choices:


1) Live with 30A/120V


2) Split up you power system into a 50A,120/240V split phase system. Then you can run off a 50A 120/240V shore outlet, or use a combiner to run off of two 30A 120V shore outlets. But if you have a generator you will need to consider how that fits, along with the isolation transformer. It's a big project.
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Old 11-22-2022, 06:32 AM   #22
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Ask the marina to change your pedestal?

Could be simple. Might not even charge you, but if they do, might not be much.

-Chris
Yep! You would be using one socket rather than two.
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Old 11-22-2022, 06:37 AM   #23
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I was suggesting one of these to plug into the 50 amp cord

But I see you have single 30 amp pedestals

These are incredibly dangerous, and illegal to use in any jurisdiction that required NEC compliance, which is pretty much everywhere.


The only safe way to combine two 30A power sources into a 120/240 power source is with some form of intelligent switch. That's why the Marinco or Furrion version of these combiners cost $600 or more. They only connect power through to the 120/240V side if both 30A supplies are present, and only if they are out pf phase.


A hard wired adapter like the one in this listing are dangerous in two ways:


1) If the two 30A power sources are in phase, then you can overload the neutral. When the power sources are out of phase, as they should be, the neutral current is the difference between the two phases. When they are in phase, the neutral current is the SUM of the two phases, so can run at 60A without any breakers tripping. That's a good way to start a fire.


2) If you plug in one of the 30A ends, and there are 240V loads connected on the boat side, the exposed plug prongs of the second 30A end will be live/hot. That's a good way to get electrocuted.


Oh, and it wouldn't help the OP anyway because his boat takes 50A 120V, not 120/240V.
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Old 11-22-2022, 06:43 AM   #24
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These are incredibly dangerous, and illegal to use in any jurisdiction that required NEC compliance, which is pretty much everywhere.


The only safe way to combine two 30A power sources into a 120/240 power source is with some form of intelligent switch. That's why the Marinco or Furrion version of these combiners cost $600 or more. They only connect power through to the 120/240V side if both 30A supplies are present, and only if they are out pf phase.


A hard wired adapter like the one in this listing are dangerous in two ways:


1) If the two 30A power sources are in phase, then you can overload the neutral. When the power sources are out of phase, as they should be, the neutral current is the difference between the two phases. When they are in phase, the neutral current is the SUM of the two phases, so can run at 60A without any breakers tripping. That's a good way to start a fire.


2) If you plug in one of the 30A ends, and there are 240V loads connected on the boat side, the exposed plug prongs of the second 30A end will be live/hot. That's a good way to get electrocuted.


Oh, and it wouldn't help the OP anyway because his boat takes 50A 120V, not 120/240V.
If "When the power sources are out of phase" than you would have 203V? Yes?
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Old 11-22-2022, 07:18 AM   #25
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If "When the power sources are out of phase" than you would have 203V? Yes?

In this context, out of phase would give you 240V across L1 and L2. In phase would give you 0V across L1 and L2. Is that what you are asking, or are you asking about 240V vs 208V?
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Old 11-22-2022, 07:18 AM   #26
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Now I understand your situation and what is desired.
You would need to check the 30A receptacles but if same phasing one of these should do what you want.
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-30A-1.../dp/B0013HRJVM
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Old 11-22-2022, 08:04 AM   #27
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In this context, out of phase would give you 240V across L1 and L2. In phase would give you 0V across L1 and L2. Is that what you are asking, or are you asking about 240V vs 208V?
It my club the have 3 phase. I was thinking that if you came off the 2 hot wire you would 208. But one one hot to natural you would have 120V due to there out of phase. I think by 45 degrees. OK, over thinking it.
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Old 11-22-2022, 10:39 AM   #28
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Was just going to say the same thing as Ranger... Just convert the 30a pedestal to 50a and not have to worry about plugs/adapters/cables... Shouldn't be more than $500 to change you out...
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Old 11-22-2022, 12:23 PM   #29
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Leoka
Now I understand your situation and what is desired.
You would need to check the 30A receptacles but if same phasing one of these should do what you want.
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-30A-1.../dp/B0013HRJVM

That appears to be a splitter, taking a 50A 120V shore outlet and splitting it into two 30A 120V sources. He wants to do the reverse, and you can't do it without violating countless wiring and safety codes
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Old 11-22-2022, 12:25 PM   #30
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Was just going to say the same thing as Ranger... Just convert the 30a pedestal to 50a and not have to worry about plugs/adapters/cables... Shouldn't be more than $500 to change you out...

Good idea if the marina will allow it.
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Old 11-22-2022, 12:31 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by ranger58sb View Post
Ask the marina to change your pedestal?



Could be simple. Might not even charge you, but if they do, might not be much.



-Chris


I did. They have no plans to do it.

Maybe Iíll ask how much it would be, if I pay for it?
Again, it is not life and death issue. I can manage as I am.
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Old 11-22-2022, 02:27 PM   #32
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That appears to be a splitter, taking a 50A 120V shore outlet and splitting it into two 30A 120V sources. He wants to do the reverse, and you can't do it without violating countless wiring and safety codes
OK that might have been the wrong one but here is exactly what he is looking for -I believe unless I'm off again. This one does show the end contacts...
2 - 30A male to 50A female (3 wire - 120V)

https://www.amazon.com/Parkworld-Com...-8756842?psc=1
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Old 11-22-2022, 04:04 PM   #33
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OK that might have been the wrong one but here is exactly what he is looking for -I believe unless I'm off again. This one does show the end contacts...
2 - 30A male to 50A female (3 wire - 120V)

https://www.amazon.com/Parkworld-Com...-8756842?psc=1

That combines two 30A 120V outlets into a single 50A 120/240V outlet. It won't get him any more 120V power, and it's the adapter that's really dangerous.
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Old 11-22-2022, 05:04 PM   #34
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Agree...
I'm wrong again! 0 for 3 and a strike out
Sorry for the confusion
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Old 11-22-2022, 05:53 PM   #35
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As I mentioned in post #19. His best option is probably to run a second independent 30a line into the boat just for some heat.

It can be done very inexpensively as long as it’s kept independent of the primary system. He could put the heaters on a rotary switch that allows them to either source the 50a or 30a shore power. This would give him the best of both worlds.

The second line would not be on an isolation transformer. However, with just the heaters on the second line you could avoid the need to combine the grounds between this system and the rest of the boat. If you added a rotary switch make sure the grounds get switched as well.
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Old 11-22-2022, 05:54 PM   #36
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Was just going to say the same thing as Ranger... Just convert the 30a pedestal to 50a and not have to worry about plugs/adapters/cables... Shouldn't be more than $500 to change you out...


I donít know. If I spend my money, Iíd rather improve my boat and not the marina. Besides, the marina is in the process of changing ownership, so nobody knows what is coming.
I am seriously considering the upgrade on my boat to two circuits, instead of one.
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Old 11-22-2022, 06:03 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=twistedtree;1137137]That panel lets you select between two shore cords and a generator, but you can only use one at a time. There is no provision to combine anything.


You only have two choices:







What if there is 3rd choice? More money, but my boat will benefit from it.

I spoke to Paneltronics and I have the answers. If I buy their panel for dual shorepower, I can connect two individual pedestals. This will require me to do some work on the existing switch board and split the present AC sub panel into two. This way, each connection on the Paneltronics can supply a partial AC branch. Optional 50A breakers can be chosen at ordering. I will need to buy and install another 50A/125V inlet and do the wirings.
This setup should not violate any codes and will give me more flexibility.
The panel in question also has a parallel switch, which allows to share one connection between the two AC branches, if only one connection is available from the dock.

What do you think?
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Old 11-22-2022, 06:14 PM   #38
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As I mentioned in post #19. His best option is probably to run a second independent 30a line into the boat just for some.
The second line would not be on an isolation transformer. However, with just the heaters on the second line you could avoid.


Your suggestion is valid and it could be a solution. However, this is not just about the heaters. I have a water maker, portable ac, other appliances. Those draw enough to dim the lights, or flip the breakers, if multiple are on.
I am thinking long term. I might not be at the present marina forever, and flexibility or extra load options would be nice to have. You will never know when it is needed, and it would be more pricey to do upgrades like this in another country. Yes, it is not cheap to upgrade, but it can pay off sometimes in the future.
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Old 11-22-2022, 06:21 PM   #39
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As I mentioned in post #19. His best option is probably to run a second independent 30a line into the boat just for some heat.

It can be done very inexpensively as long as itís kept independent of the primary system. He could put the heaters on a rotary switch that allows them to either source the 50a or 30a shore power. This would give him the best of both worlds.

The second line would not be on an isolation transformer. However, with just the heaters on the second line you could avoid the need to combine the grounds between this system and the rest of the boat. If you added a rotary switch make sure the grounds get switched as well.
Respectfully wish to ask does your suggestion pass ABYC.
You said the splitters that stayed outside the boat were against the rules, how possibly can a bypass of the isolation transformer panel and reverse polarity be acceptable.
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Old 11-22-2022, 06:35 PM   #40
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Agree...
I'm wrong again! 0 for 3 and a strike out
Sorry for the confusion

No worries. None of the product descriptions for adapters make it easy, and ParkWorld selling a product that violates all North American electric codes doesn't help either.
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