Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-11-2021, 01:48 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Barking Sands's Avatar
 
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 250
100 Ah 12 volt Lithium prices

I follow the prices closely. I have also noted that you no longer have to purchase from Ali Baba or Ali Express. You can get them from Amazon which is another layer of protection and return access. Many quality Lithium batteries are now less than $400 for a 100Ah 12 volt battery with a 100 amp BMS. The 100 Amp BMS typically will support charge rates well above what boaters would charge at and discharge rates up to 200 amps momentarily and 100 amps continuous.

The drop in prices over the last 6 months has been drastic. And with the amount of additional competition in this market I expect them to continue to fall.

Here is a link to a quality battery for less than $400. After clicking the link...also check out that price of the 200 AH version.

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Batte...%2C231&sr=8-15

I just wanted to point this out to those of us planning battery and electrical upgrades soon. I have a set of Dakota Lithium batteries for my golf cart (set of 3) that I paid $799 each for with a small charger almost 2 years ago. Those batteries have been nothing short of amazing. But the battery I linked is basically the exact same battery for half that price 20 months later.

Looks like a good time to make a move if you were waiting for prices to fall.

Just be aware most of these batteries do not have cold protection and that will have to be built into your system for charging at less than 32 degrees.
Barking Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 02:24 PM   #2
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,877
That is a great price. I paid between $700 to $900 for the ones I put in our last boat.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 02:31 PM   #3
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,860
What's in them?




https://diysolarforum.com/threads/li...e.23771/page-3
Attached Thumbnails
C9FE4376-B1C9-496F-8A98-BDE7C24497BF.jpg  
__________________
Everything on a boat is broken, you just don't know it yet
Full time cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 02:44 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Barking Sands's Avatar
 
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 250
Simi...it would probably be harder to find a battery like that these days than to end up with a decent battery. Especially ordering from Amazon. In this video Will Prowse reviews a Chins, which is the same as Ampere Time. He also does a teardown of the Ampere Time 50 ah with the same result.
https://youtu.be/xBonGQe363g

This info is not hard to find.
In addition...note in the video of the Chins from 2 months ago he paid $509. That same battery is also currently $399 from Amazon.
Barking Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 02:57 PM   #5
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barking Sands View Post
Simi...it would probably be harder to find a battery like that these days than to end up with a decent battery.
Undoubtedly

But, having spent a bit of time on that diysolar forum, there are no shortage of buyers ending with 2nd rate lifepo4 thinking they were buying A grade.
Seems it's still a bit wild west out there.

Saying that, my 840ah @ 24v of lifepo4 cells are on the slow boat from China - but I did the research, chose the reputable supplier and got matched and batched cells.

Nice result
__________________
Everything on a boat is broken, you just don't know it yet
Full time cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 03:11 PM   #6
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Walkabout Creek
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barking Sands View Post
Many quality Lithium batteries are now less than $400 for a 100Ah 12 volt battery with a 100 amp BMS.



That's just a little bit more than AGMs for raw rated Ah capacity, and pushing half the price of AGMs for usable Ah.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 03:17 PM   #7
Valued Technical Contributor
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,158
I can't understand why the cheap but good? battery manufacturers don't include low temperature charging protection. It might add 10 cents at most to the cost of the BIM. But it is the one thing that gives me a bit of a pause before jumping in to one of these batteries.

Why if these batteries are the equivalent of Battle Borns, don't they add the one missing feature that without could ruin the battery if charged at low temps.

And why has Will Prowse become rather sanguine about the lack of this feature. He wasn't in the past.

David
DavidM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 04:11 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Greatlaker221's Avatar
 
City: Kenosha, WI
Vessel Name: Tortuga
Vessel Model: Hershine 37
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 247
I just installed two 200aH Chinns LifePO4 for $1852 all in. ($830ea plus tax) So Far So Good. They have a 200A BMS. The Ampere Time batteries with a 100A BMS sell for $760. They have a smart version with BT for more and a cold temp shut off for more yet. I had to read the fine print and go the the websites to get the differences not apparent on Amazon. There are NON Returnable. Why does Will wear so much make up?
Greatlaker221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 04:37 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Barking Sands's Avatar
 
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
That's just a little bit more than AGMs for raw rated Ah capacity, and pushing half the price of AGMs for usable Ah.
Yes. And slowly..more manufacturers are also putting out Lifepo4 batteries that can handle cranking. I know Dakota just came out with some 60AH lithium cranking/deep cycle batteries capable of 1000cca. They are $599. It would be nice to incorporate a pair of those as start batteries and then a large AH house bank and then convert everything to lithium voltages/charge profiles.

One other thing I just ran across. Dakota just sent out a technical bulletin basically stating that AGM profiles were "good enough" to use on their batteries. The final voltage is close enough I guess. I am still in the info gathering stage before I settle on a final set up. Even with lower prices...its going to be costly....lol.
Barking Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 04:39 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Barking Sands's Avatar
 
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatlaker221 View Post
I just installed two 200aH Chinns LifePO4 for $1852 all in. ($830ea plus tax) So Far So Good. They have a 200A BMS. The Ampere Time batteries with a 100A BMS sell for $760. They have a smart version with BT for more and a cold temp shut off for more yet. I had to read the fine print and go the the websites to get the differences not apparent on Amazon. There are NON Returnable. Why does Will wear so much make up?
Thats tough to beat for the cost. And doing the math on my golf cart batteries...if I can believe the stats, I expect them to last longer than the cart itself.
Barking Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 05:17 PM   #11
Guru
 
Ken E.'s Avatar
 
City: Bellingham WA
Vessel Name: Hatt Trick
Vessel Model: 45' Hatteras Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,650
I recently bought 2 Battleborn 100ah batteries with heat for the RV. They were about $900 each with a 10 year warranty. The Chinese batteries that I shopped were considerably less.
Ken E. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 05:47 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Barking Sands's Avatar
 
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken E. View Post
I recently bought 2 Battleborn 100ah batteries with heat for the RV. They were about $900 each with a 10 year warranty. The Chinese batteries that I shopped were considerably less.
Well..you certainly can't go wrong with the Battleborns. It's been the standard for a while.
Barking Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 06:22 PM   #13
Guru
 
Marco Flamingo's Avatar
 
City: Dewatto
Vessel Name: CHiTON
Vessel Model: Tung Hwa Clipper 30
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 634
What amazes me is what Will says at the end of the video. Basically, prices are dropping but a DIY battery build is still cheaper. I've been watching some of the DIY battery build videos. They often get wonky, but it is still interesting.

The common idea of a battery as a black box with a carrying handle that fits in a car's battery spot may not be the best fitment for a boat. Some of the DIY builds daisy chaining individual lithium cells creating batteries that can fit in odd places (and relatively inexpensive compared to the complete battery-in-a-box configuration). I'm sure that somebody will come up with a Lego-style snap together kit that will allow the purchaser to determine size, shape, capacity, etc. The next few years will be interesting. Can't wait to get the lead out.
__________________
Marco Flamingo
Marco Flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 06:34 PM   #14
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo View Post
What amazes me is what Will says at the end of the video. Basically, prices are dropping but a DIY battery build is still cheaper. I've been watching some of the DIY battery build videos. They often get wonky, but it is still interesting.

The common idea of a battery as a black box with a carrying handle that fits in a car's battery spot may not be the best fitment for a boat. Some of the DIY builds daisy chaining individual lithium cells creating batteries that can fit in odd places (and relatively inexpensive compared to the complete battery-in-a-box configuration). I'm sure that somebody will come up with a Lego-style snap together kit that will allow the purchaser to determine size, shape, capacity, etc. The next few years will be interesting. Can't wait to get the lead out.
open up a drop in and thats exactly what they are, small cells daisy chained together.
__________________
Everything on a boat is broken, you just don't know it yet
Full time cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 08:05 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Barking Sands's Avatar
 
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 250
Marco I know exactly what you are saying. But now with that same battery at $399 I think it would be difficult to match even with a build your own. I was going to build my own but now with prices as they are I almost certainly will not be. Having 3,4 or 6 separate batteries all packaged with separate BMS units gives you a level of redundancy in case of failure. In addition you could reconfigure more easily I would think.

I have changed my thinking on batteries. Both in my Golf Cart and on the boat. They used to be a consumable item that was a nuisance. Now I think of them as one of the components in the system. My Dakota lithium's in my Golf Cart are likely to be with me for a very long time. At the rate I am using them (usually not more that 30% DOD, 70% remaining) They may well last 20+ years. In 20 years ill be 72..lol.

Like you I am quite excited to see what the future holds in this area.
Barking Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 11:06 AM   #16
Guru
 
Marco Flamingo's Avatar
 
City: Dewatto
Vessel Name: CHiTON
Vessel Model: Tung Hwa Clipper 30
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 634
The self-built seem like a bit of a crap shoot right now. Stories of quality control and lengthy delivery times are common. Here are the cells needed to build a 320Ah lithium for $750. Still need a BMS, but probably 30-50% less than using three 100Ah box batteries.

Those that have the equipment and expertise are now buying lithium cells from Amazon because of the return policy. Buy 12 cells when only 8 are needed, bench test them (including balancing) and send back the 4 worst performers. Lots of fussing around, but one would really understand their battery system. I'm sure that the vast majority of box battery purchasers simply trust that the battery performs as stated on the label and, unless there is an obvious shortfall, never know if one isn't quite living up to its specs.
__________________
Marco Flamingo
Marco Flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2021, 01:06 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Barking Sands's Avatar
 
City: NEW PORT RICHEY
Vessel Name: M/V Intrigue
Vessel Model: 1985 Tung Hwa Senator
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 250
The same battery in the link in the original post is now $365.
Barking Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2021, 03:09 PM   #18
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Flamingo View Post
The self-built seem like a bit of a crap shoot right now. Stories of quality control and lengthy delivery times are common. Here are the cells needed to build a 320Ah lithium for $750. Still need a BMS, but probably 30-50% less than using three 100Ah box batteries.

Those that have the equipment and expertise are now buying lithium cells from Amazon because of the return policy. Buy 12 cells when only 8 are needed, bench test them (including balancing) and send back the 4 worst performers. Lots of fussing around, but one would really understand their battery system. .

Yeah, don't know about that.
Seems those that do a bit of prior research are getting fantastic results if buying from recommended suppliers on Alibaba

Amy Wan from Shenzhen Luyuan Technology for example
Matched and batched cells with testing documentation on each
Ours will be here soon
__________________
Everything on a boat is broken, you just don't know it yet
Full time cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2021, 04:39 PM   #19
Guru
 
socalrider's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Vessel Name: SEA WOLF
Vessel Model: 1979 CHB 41 Trawler
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barking Sands View Post
The same battery in the link in the original post is now $365.
Great to see these price declines hitting this part of the market. Automotive LFP is well under $100/kWh right now at the pack level, so I think these 12V modules still have room to drop (the above referenced unit is $300/kWh).
socalrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2021, 05:55 PM   #20
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,479
Times they are a changing!

6 years ago 8 Trojan T-105s cost under $1,000 with the core charge. Now they're around $1,300 without the core charge. Was planning on switching to Fireflies for around $2,000 with more useable capacity. 400 AH of these would be even more capacity for around $1,500. Have to see if the Magnum Energy inverter / battery charger and the Balmar regulator are up to the task. Hard to know what to do.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012