#@%$! Garmin

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markpj23

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2021
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197
Vessel Name
Black Horse
Vessel Make
Med Yachts 62
Excuse the rant BUT...


7612xsv chartplotter bought by PO for $3700 a mere 4 years ago is now incompatible with the new Navionics charts. And all that remains is for me to wait until the G2 / G3 charts are no longer updated for this unit so I can toss it in the trash... :banghead:
 
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When we bought our current boat last year it had Garmin on it. This winter I took off the 4’ open array radar and all the rest of the Garmin equipment. The open array was very difficult to get down off the radar arch, it is very heavy and bulky to lift down. I am in the process or installing a new Raymarine suite. Today I worked on installing the 2 transducers for the Realvision 3D depth sounder. These transducers are huge and heavy. Had to remove the bottom paint and drill 2 - 2 3/8” holes and 2 - 3/8” holes.
 
I was lucky that the new boat came with Simrad. I wanted Garmin, but after using Simrad I will not go back.
 
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Excuse the rant BUT...


7612xsv chartplotter bought by PO for $3700 a mere 4 years ago is now incompatible with the new Navionics charts. And all that remains is for me to wait until the G2 / G3 charts are no longer updated for this unit so I can toss it in the trash... :banghead:

You can toss it in my trash. I’ll gladly pay the shipping.
 
Yup, my 5200 series Garmin plotters no longer have map updates available. The updates weren't timely to begin with. So I'm keeping my three MFDs and running the existing chart software as a base map.

I have a 10" tablet with Aquamaps and 24" monitor PC with Coastal Explorer using NOAA ENC charts. Both Aquamaps and Coastal Explorer update the charts I'm using for free every time I sync to the respective company.

Over 99% of the information on Garmin or anybody else's charts doesn't change. So why not pick a backup navigation system that is constantly updating their charts, crowd source information and software from a company who dosen't sell hardware. It took a while to reach that epiphany, but once there, it made no sense to spend $20K to $30K to replace hardware when what I needed was a dedicated software company.

Ted
 
I was lucky that the new boat came with Simrad. I wanted Garmin, but after using Simrad I will not go back.

My boat came with Simrad as well and I was ambivalent about it, I have grown to appreciate it and believe it is underrated in general.
 
Excuse the rant BUT...


7612xsv chartplotter bought by PO for $3700 a mere 4 years ago is now incompatible with the new Navionics charts. And all that remains is for me to wait until the G2 / G3 charts are no longer updated for this unit so I can toss it in the trash... :banghead:

I have two older 741XS units that came with my boat. I also just purchased the 923XSV. The new charts are compatible with the 923XSV but not the 741XS. BTW..I also just got the new Navionics Vision+ yesterday and have been messing around with it.

Anyways...my plan before knowing certain details was to link all three units together with a Garmin GMS 10 Network Port Expander. I am now wondering if I use the newer model plotter if I can display and use the data loaded in the 923XSV to display on the older 741XS units as long as everything is routed through the highspeed GMS-10. If that is the case you could just purchase an additional newer less expensive unit and still retain your 7612XSV. Not sure how you are set up. I plan to use one unit on the upper helm and two units on the lower. So if the 923XSV can be the "master" and the two 741XS can basically be displays I am hoping to get it all to work. I really am not too versed in this stuff so i could be totally out n left field. But Im going to see what happens.

I have all this equipment in my garage and have the 923XSV running off a power supply. I suppose I could get the power cables and GMS10 unit out and hook it all up on the bench and see what happens.

BTW the newest charts are essentially Navionics and Active Caption all rolled into one plus the crowd sourced Quick Draw maps can be used in the fishing charts.

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This is from the Quick Draw maps in the fishing charts
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We have the same problem. The boat has 17 year old Furuno everything, accept for the new AIS and VHF radios. The Furuno uses C-Map NT+ chart chips. . . which have been discontinued. So we use the Furuno chartplotter for basic navigation, but really use Navionics on our tablets/phones for up to date maps, backed up with paper charts.

Now I just need to get ahold of C-Map NT+ chip/cartridges for entire West Coast of USA from Alaska to Panama, exclusive of the Puget Sound chip . . .
 
My boat came with Simrad as well and I was ambivalent about it, I have grown to appreciate it and believe it is underrated in general.

So, what experience have you had with them? Have you used their customer service or no need to do so? If you believe they are underrated, help raise that rating by elaborating. Main reason I believe they're downrated is service history and perhaps that has improved.
 
So, what experience have you had with them? Have you used their customer service or no need to do so? If you believe they are underrated, help raise that rating by elaborating. Main reason I believe they're downrated is service history and perhaps that has improved.

I have not required customer service but I have been satisfied with their online resources regarding compatibility with regards to expanding the system and it being plug and play.
 
... I am now wondering if I use the newer model plotter if I can display and use the data loaded in the 923XSV to display on the older 741XS units as long as everything is routed through the highspeed GMS-10. If that is the case you could just purchase an additional newer less expensive unit and still retain your 7612XSV. .....


Would love to know the answer to that question also! Please let us know what you discover.


I also run OpenCPN on a laptop as a backup. Sure would be nice to have one seamless system, that does not cost a fortune, at both helms. Oh - and a lifespan of >4 years would be nice as well...
 
I'll see If I can set that up over the weekend. I guess I really should do that before I install it ��
 
Excuse the rant BUT...


7612xsv chartplotter bought by PO for $3700 a mere 4 years ago is now incompatible with the new Navionics charts. And all that remains is for me to wait until the G2 / G3 charts are no longer updated for this unit so I can toss it in the trash... :banghead:

Your experience is not unique or new. Garmin has at least a 20 year history of abandoning products.
 
I have two older 741XS units that came with my boat. I also just purchased the 923XSV. The new charts are compatible with the 923XSV but not the 741XS. BTW..I also just got the new Navionics Vision+ yesterday and have been messing around with it.

Anyways...my plan before knowing certain details was to link all three units together with a Garmin GMS 10 Network Port Expander. I am now wondering if I use the newer model plotter if I can display and use the data loaded in the 923XSV to display on the older 741XS units as long as everything is routed through the highspeed GMS-10. If that is the case you could just purchase an additional newer less expensive unit and still retain your 7612XSV. Not sure how you are set up. I plan to use one unit on the upper helm and two units on the lower. So if the 923XSV can be the "master" and the two 741XS can basically be displays I am hoping to get it all to work. I really am not too versed in this stuff so i could be totally out n left field. But Im going to see what happens.

I have all this equipment in my garage and have the 923XSV running off a power supply. I suppose I could get the power cables and GMS10 unit out and hook it all up on the bench and see what happens.

BTW the newest charts are essentially Navionics and Active Caption all rolled into one plus the crowd sourced Quick Draw maps can be used in the fishing charts. =QUOTE]

=====================================================

On my last boat I had two 741 units. Garmin told me that I would need SD card for each unit so both would display the new maps. Also due to this, that I could use one license for ten MFDs.

With Simrad, one SD card in one MFD with a network, you can display that map on all MFDs.
 
Garmin does something really, really well. I'd love to understand how they do it, just in an academic sense.

The stories are legion about how they screw customers time and again by sunsetting expensive gear in a matter of a few years.

And yet, its so clear they have the strongest brand loyalty and following in the business.

Furuno brand loyalty is pretty darned high, but not as strong.

Then you have Simrad that can't shake stories on service support that when you pick at them are old stories. But they can't shake the rep.

There is the makings here of a good business case study for some MBA graduate degree paper.
 
Garmin does something really, really well. I'd love to understand how they do it, just in an academic sense.

The stories are legion about how they screw customers time and again by sunsetting expensive gear in a matter of a few years.

And yet, its so clear they have the strongest brand loyalty and following in the business.

Furuno brand loyalty is pretty darned high, but not as strong.

Then you have Simrad that can't shake stories on service support that when you pick at them are old stories. But they can't shake the rep.

There is the makings here of a good business case study for some MBA graduate degree paper.

One this note! I must say Garmin's tech support is very good. You talk to someone in the U.S. every time and they know what they are talking about.

Talking to Simrad, I first went overseas. A 2 minute conversation took 5 minutes! Very frustrating and time consuming. They speak English but not the same English. BUT 2nd level support I was dealing with some in the U.S. that knew his stuff. Problem was resolved in just a few minutes.

Tech support is a big thing, maybe thats what Garmin has on their side? Some people would say its worth something.
 
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Yup, my 5200 series Garmin plotters no longer have map updates available. The updates weren't timely to begin with. So I'm keeping my three MFDs and running the existing chart software as a base map.

I have a 10" tablet with Aquamaps and 24" monitor PC with Coastal Explorer using NOAA ENC charts. Both Aquamaps and Coastal Explorer update the charts I'm using for free every time I sync to the respective company.

Over 99% of the information on Garmin or anybody else's charts doesn't change. So why not pick a backup navigation system that is constantly updating their charts, crowd source information and software from a company who dosen't sell hardware. It took a while to reach that epiphany, but once there, it made no sense to spend $20K to $30K to replace hardware when what I needed was a dedicated software company.

Ted

Garmin does something really, really well. I'd love to understand how they do it, just in an academic sense.

The stories are legion about how they screw customers time and again by sunsetting expensive gear in a matter of a few years.

And yet, its so clear they have the strongest brand loyalty and following in the business.

Furuno brand loyalty is pretty darned high, but not as strong.

Then you have Simrad that can't shake stories on service support that when you pick at them are old stories. But they can't shake the rep.

There is the makings here of a good business case study for some MBA graduate degree paper.

I don't fault Garmin for not making new charts for legacy equipment. It's no different than owning an older printer that's been discontinued, and finding out that you can't get drivers for the latest version of Windows.

In my situation, the MFDs don't have the storage space required for the new map software. I also recognize that my model of MFDs were designed over 12 years ago and were discontinued over 5 years ago.

From a perspective standpoint, my old NOAA charts could go more 10 years without an update.

Ted
 
I had mixed experiences with Garmin tech support: One very good, one clueless, and one downright insulting ("We will not give you the new update for free." when I hadn't even asked them to.)
 
I fault any manufacturer for not supporting and contributing to a universal data bank of charts capable of running on anything.

They are the bread and butter of safe navigation.

Building superior in functioning and use equipment should be the market....supporting proprietary charting then luring people to buy it disturbs me.
 
I don't fault Garmin for not making new charts for legacy equipment. It's no different than owning an older printer that's been discontinued, and finding out that you can't get drivers for the latest version of Windows.

In my situation, the MFDs don't have the storage space required for the new map software. I also recognize that my model of MFDs were designed over 12 years ago and were discontinued over 5 years ago.

From a perspective standpoint, my old NOAA charts could go more 10 years without an update.

Ted


There is always a point where it's just not feasible to support an old piece of equipment, or it just isn't capable of supporting some newer stuff. That's entirely reasonable. But when manufacturers pull the "we stopped selling that 3 years ago, so I'm sure most users are upgrading soon, we'll just stop supporting it" without a hardware limitation driving that, I get unhappy.
 
I don't fault Garmin for not making new charts for legacy equipment. It's no different than owning an older printer that's been discontinued, and finding out that you can't get drivers for the latest version of Windows.

In my situation, the MFDs don't have the storage space required for the new map software. I also recognize that my model of MFDs were designed over 12 years ago and were discontinued over 5 years ago.

From a perspective standpoint, my old NOAA charts could go more 10 years without an update.

Ted

12 years of use is a good long run.

The OP describes a problem that is much shorter. That's what my mind was focused on.
 
Excuse the rant BUT...

7612xsv chartplotter bought by PO for $3700 a mere 4 years ago is now incompatible with the new Navionics charts. And all that remains is for me to wait until the G2 / G3 charts are no longer updated for this unit so I can toss it in the trash... :banghead:


That's almost exactly the reason I'm installing a Furuno system -- and a whole 'nother chart set -- next door to the working 7612xsv installation that came with our boat.

That said, it's not easy to just wave a magic wand and make new software (or charts, in this case) compatible with old hardware...

And Garmin probably didn't completely anticipate acquiring Navionics back when they were fielding the 7612 systems...

So I can't really fault them because of this specific chart/hardware mismatch. Their alternatives likely wouldn't have been all that great...

-Chris
 
I've been aware of Garmin's lack of support after a few years ,mostly with their radars. They seem to be geared towards the recreational market which doesn't make it any better, but a company that I'm really disappointed in is Simrad. The fishing fleet that which I'm involved has pretty much always used Simrad autopilots and Furuno radars. I was tuning an older Furuno CRT radar on a ship yesterday that had 56 THOUSAND hours on it and the targets were still strong. I'm sure, if I needed parts or support, Furuno could probably still help me out. The same with Simrad pilots of the past. If I needed support or parts for an older model, they were there for me. I LOVED the AP50 autopilots! I considered them a commercial-quality product. The same with most all of Furuno's offerings.
2 seasons ago, We had an issue with a new (new by my standards) autopilot system on a ship that was commissioned only 5-6 years ago. Long story short, the AC80S pilot started giving us issues and were informed by Simrad that they did not service the computer and would need a new one...yet they still seem to be in production. Worse yet, the AP70 control wasn't repairable or compatible and a Mk2 version was required.
I would be really pi$$ed if I bought a top-of-the-line Simrad system for my personal boat and had to spend $5k for a new one after a few years.

The attached pictures are what a $5000 paperweight looks like, in case nobody has ever seen one before. :banghead:
 

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12 years of use is a good long run.

The OP describes a problem that is much shorter. That's what my mind was focused on.


Exactly my point.... 4 years from expensive purchase to incompatibility. Will probably get 8 to 10 years out of it before support stops completely. I will likely have swallowed the anchor by then, but it's still infuriating.
 
Talked with Garmin today. I have a 7612 plotter. Yes, the new charts are not compatible but the G3 vision are and will be updated according to the rep. We’ll see. . .
 
Garmin does something really, really well. I'd love to understand how they do it, just in an academic sense.

The stories are legion about how they screw customers time and again by sunsetting expensive gear in a matter of a few years.

And yet, its so clear they have the strongest brand loyalty and following in the business.

Furuno brand loyalty is pretty darned high, but not as strong.

Then you have Simrad that can't shake stories on service support that when you pick at them are old stories. But they can't shake the rep.

There is the makings here of a good business case study for some MBA graduate degree paper.

Furuno brand loyalty is much higher, just with a different group. Go commercial and megayacht and you'll see it.

With technology, you must do something in terms of moving forward and making older product obsolete. Planned obsolescence is part of it. You can end up spending millions to connect to old hardware, used by few, and connected to poorly. You have to decide at some point what you will no longer support. Apple and Microsoft do it all the time.

Right now, Microsoft is in the process of one of the largest moves I've seen. Windows 11 requires 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or System on a Chip (SoC), 4 GB Ram, 64 GB Storage, UFFI Secure boot, TPM Version 2.0, DirectX12 or later video with WDDM 2.0 driver, 720 pixels with 8 bit per color channel and a few other things. Basically any computer built before 2014 or so is out and many build for years after. Now, Microsoft will continue to support Windows 10 but for how long and how long will it be practical to use? And the support ends on 6/13/2023 for most versions and 6/11/2024 for the others.

Garmin will argue they can't support old versions and that continuing them is not in their or the consumer's best interest.

Equipment today has a hardware life so much longer than it's software life. I remember in my early days all the blue screens when monitors would die. I remember all the hard drive failures. I can't tell you the last time I had either. Even a simple thing like the power module would fail regularly and doesn't today. However, the software moves more rapidly than ever and that's what happens with Garmin.

Furuno can't take the same attitude due to their commercial base. As a result, they incur a lot of extra internal costs.

I don't know how long Simrad and Raymarine support old technology. Seems to be longer than Garmin but not indefinitely and perhaps even seems that way because Garmin is moving more rapidly with new technology.

Think about phones and tablets? I can't remember the last time I had one die. Generally people replace when they break the glass or they stop charging. However, most replacements are driven by new features. The carriers have also made you think upgrades are free.

In business, we've basically established a 3 year life on it all and, as a result, become one of the largest sellers of used equipment. The average price of an "off lease" desktop is around $140. Tablets and laptops a bit less. Phones are give aways.

So, useful life now has nothing to do with hardware, but is all software governed.
 
Welcome to Garmin and it's lack of supporting it's equipment.

You need to stay with SIMRAD or FURUNO to get on going support on their equipment.
 
My new Furuno’s are being installed as we speak. Ordered many months ago and the 19”s arrived and 16”s out to end of March.

Last generation Garmin took the lead in UI when Furuno was still NavNet. Opinions were set from that. Furuno has caught up and exceeded Garmin in ease of use with the TZ3’s, strictly in my opinion of course (well and in my electronics guy view too). Garmin can be maddening at times.
 
Planned obsolescence should never be part of it.

There is such a thing as necessary obsolescence, and entirely different thing.


I dunno if I'd say never, but if they're going to plan a set service life to save support costs it should be based on the users. If 95% of people replace X device by the 10 year mark, it's likely not worth supporting longer than 10 years even if they could. But if they say "well, if we end support at 5 years, people will have to buy a new one sooner" then it's a problem.
 
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