Atlantic Buddy Boat or Crew

[Benthic2]

If you are worried about range, you won't be a very effective buddy boat for someone else. All you have to offer is your excess range and you don't have much. If the other boat has a repair to make, you'll be expected to wait for him which could add dozens of hours, and if he needs a tow, you'll never make it, unless you have some way to get the fuel off of his boat.

 

[OldDan1943]

If you are worried about range, you won't be a very effective buddy boat for someone else. All you have to offer is your excess range and you don't have much. If the other boat has a repair to make, you'll be expected to wait for him which could add dozens of hours, and if he needs a tow, you'll never make it, unless you have some way to get the fuel off of his boat.

When a flotilla (3 or 4) of Nordhavns went to Bermuda, they had a N35 in the group. The N35 carries 590 gal of fuel. They transferred fuel from a larger Nordhavn via a garden hose and an explosive-proof pump. They also had a compliment of techs and engineers on the boats plus spare parts. Their intent was to prove even the smallest N could make the journey. They also said, 'dont try this at home.'

I agree with you, if a boat breaks down, the other boats in the flotilla are expected to stay with the broken-boat, assist in repairs or provide a tow. The boats must remain in close visual proximity to each other, to provide immediate support.
Plus, you can only travel as fast as the slowest boat.

 

[Prospective]

Hi , sounds like a doable passage , how did boat orriginally all cross the Atlantic?
Were Ryan and Sophie going to crew with you? I know they pulled out as the fuel looked too tight for them . But really figuring it out how to make it work is half the fun! Have you considered synthetic oil , designed for longer oil changes and can slightly improve fuel economy . Not normally used in boats because its not the best for cold starts with long down time but continuous running perfect).
Have you owned similiar boats with Detroit’s? It helps to know ‘what your doing’ .
Are you looking at hull fouling and prop tuning to improve economy ? 1% here 1/2% there will make a big difference on a long passage .
Good luck warren

Yeah, saw a post from their FB page and was kind of thinking this was the boat they bailed on. Was curious the reason.

 

[Benthic2]

When a flotilla (3 or 4) of Nordhavns went to Bermuda, they had a N35 in the group. The N35 carries 590 gal of fuel. They transferred fuel from a larger Nordhavn via a garden hose and an explosive-proof pump. They also had a compliment of techs and engineers on the boats plus spare parts. Their intent was to prove even the smallest N could make the journey. They also said, 'dont try this at home.'

.

To me, "boat buddies" implies a symbiosis, or a group of equals supporting each other. I think your example with the Nordys was more of a support team. They others were there to help the N35, but no one expected the N35 to help them.

 

[mvweebles]

Update and answers,
We have decide to ship from Palma to Antigua where we will continue the journey to Panama and up the west coast.
Read through some very good points and questions, I’ll try to answer a few.
First off we have done a sea trial across the Mediterranean as we started in Montenegro and are only 19 hrs to Gibraltar. On our various legs we did play around with the rpm’s and fuel consumption, even got to try different weather conditions and running on 1 engine. Best fuel was 6.7gph @ 850rpm with an average 7.2kts, Sea conditions were as flat as they get.
Currently we are in Almerimar, Spain and the winter winds have settled in but still have to backtrack 44hrs to Mallorca to meet the ship on the 14th with no weather window in sight. Still have a week to watch weather and it seems like it will be out of the west, will try hugging the coastline as much as we can.

Thanks for the comments on the thread.

If you're inclined to share, I'd be curious to hear of your thought process in deciding to ship vs deliver. I would think more than a couple Hatt's that size would have made the crossing, so fuel is tight but manageable, but maybe not. For me, the nagging fear of something breaking that I cannot fix would give me pause - especially since I would be responsible for crew as well as myself. It's a big decision - although I've made many 7-day non-stop passages, they were mostly coastal in nature - 300-400 miles offshore tops. Crossing an ocean is another level. While I do not plan to cross an ocean, there is much to be learned from those who have, or even those like yourselves who have seriously considered it.

Safe travels whatever you decide. And thanks for the update.

Peter

 

[Shrew]

Time yourself with the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers (ARC) folks. You can pay and join and buddy boat with a few hundred boats. Or just be in the right place at the right time and leave and travel with them.

The latter excludes you from networking, weather sharing, meet and greets etc.

 

[Hippocampus]

Have done multiple Salty Dawgs and other >1500nm passages. Having done them inside a fleet and can say for such an adventure buddy boating with ARC or like group won’t be a major advantage to the OP. They will disperse in order to make the best vmg. He will try to hold to the great circle and minimize distance to travel thereby having the best fuel efficiency. If they’re in front of him it’s difficult to go upwind to meet him. If they’re behind him unless he slows or is stationary they won’t catch up. So unlikely after the first couple of days anybody will be close by. Yes if taking water or disabled someone will come if they need to abandon ship. But even then seems more likely a actual ship is more likely to be there first.
The attitude must be “if you didn’t take it with you....you don’t have it.” So being in a fleet isn’t much help. Similarly “by the time they come you either have it under control or are swimming “.
Think the OP made the right decision by shipping the boat. Between wear and tear, costs, strain on him and crew it’s just not worth the risks involved. The difference in money when you add everything up between the two ways isn’t that great.
He has made significant transits with his boat. The Med can present very challenging circumstances but it’s not a east to west Atlantic crossing by the southern route as it’s broken up into manageable legs. His skill set seems more than adequate as well. He’s on a good vessel. Would have less reluctance with him going west to east (Newfoundland, Greenland, Ireland/Hebrides) as the legs are shorter then Azores Or canaries to windwards or leewards. So good on you mate and have too much fun.

 

[Euphoria]

Many factors in the decision to ship. When we had first checked into shipping back in August for a December sailing the quotes were outrageously expensive.
Yes we knew that we would be adding hours on the engines but hey that’s why we cruise, to get the adventure you have to add hours. Engines have had a total rebuild and have 800hrs on them, they have smaller injectors (complete with a spare set) and are low rev engines hence the 850 cruising rpms.
So back to decision, covid has been a huge part of it with crew not being able to fly in and then the crew that we thought we had bailed with no explanation. We were having fun figuring out the fuel and discussing other items, the fuel bladders were ordered so that we would have a 35% reserve. Then one day they made a decision to not cross, did not explain why and moved off the boat the next day.
Fatigue would have been a huge factor with just the two of us so we again checked into shipping options. We got a quote half the price of any of the previous quotes, did the math and it seemed like a no brainer. Biggest problem was returning the bladders, we took a $5,000 hit on that one, wish we would have known of the bailout 3 days earlier.
Now we just have to wait for a weather window to head to Palma, didn’t make it to Gibraltar and with the restrictions over here doubt if we would have gotten much sightseeing in anyway. Looking forward to the Caribbean and Panama, just a little bump, the Adventure will continue..
Thanks all, hope this answers a few questions.

 

[Mako]

Engines have had a total rebuild and have 800hrs on them, they have smaller injectors (complete with a spare set) and are low rev engines hence the 850 cruising rpms.

Couple of questions:

1) What is the estimated hp rating and what size injectors did you install?
2) Did you mechanic or someone recommend that 850 is an acceptable continuous cruise rpm? I ask because I've always understood that the minimum continuous operation recommended by DD was 1000 rpm.

Thanks.

 

[Wxx3]

Peter,
Yes we have a burn of 6.8gph and the distance is approximately 2150nm at an average 7.2kts. So you were very close. Hopefully we get the push but the current is only .8 kts average so hopefully 7.7 kts average should be attainable.
On our way to Gibraltar we were going to check our burn rate at 800rpm, everything else stated is calculated and confirmed at 850rpm. If we can get the burn down to 6gph and maintain 7kts we have lots of fuel.
One more thing to test out is alternating our engines to get the burn down a little more and this would also save on an oil change in mid ocean. Our transmissions are twin disc and low rpm engines so we don’t have to lock the shaft.
Fuel is always a concern but if we get everything dialled in we should burn 1800 gallons of fuel and have approx 530 left in the tanks on arrival.
We can also save 200nm if we have to and stop into the Barbados.

A few things:

1. Don't change oil in mid-ocean.
2. Check Noonsite on the safety of the area off Cape Verdes islands, a lot more piracy off west Africa in in recent years.
3. Following seas and winds will benefit you greatly, as you surmise. I did get 10% better fuel mileage because of it. I did keep the rpms lower for the first 7 days to make sure of my consumption.

A question, How does your boat handle following seas?

My thumbnail is just after I arrived in Martinique after our passage.

 

[oscar]

Glad you decided to ship. You would NOT have had enough fuel, especially if you needed to go out of the way of weather, and I would not want to be in any serious weather in a 70' Hatt.

(To someone else above.... yes, they made a 70' LRC, in fact there's one on YW right now, and that would have been a much more suitable vessel.)

 

[Prospective]

Glad you decided to ship. You would NOT have had enough fuel, especially if you needed to go out of the way of weather, and I would not want to be in any serious weather in a 70' Hatt.

(To someone else above.... yes, they made a 70' LRC, in fact there's one on YW right now, and that would have been a much more suitable vessel.)

According to that listing for the "70' LRC" its says it's an extended 65. But I didn't think that was ever a production length for the LRC line.