Winterization in the PNW, guidance please!

[Streff]

I am taking our 45’ Californian MY to Bellingham, WA for the winter where it will remain in the water. The boatyard could not give me any meaningful guidance with respect to winterization other than keeping a few of the low wattage heaters going.

This will be our first winter with the boat in the PNW so I am hoping to get guidance from folks that do this every year in this area.

I plan to have 4 low wattage heaters going, drain the waterlines and the hot water tanks, add antifreeze in the traps and in the holding tank and add antigel in the fuel tanks.

Should I drain the water tank or fill it to the max? Do I place one low wattage heater in the ER? Do I cutoff the batteries or keep them charging? Do I close the thru-hulls? Is there a need for stronger heaters such as a ceramic heater with the thermostat set to very low?

I would very much appreciate any comments or input, please.

Thank you in advance

Streff

 

[Portage_Bay]

I don't do much to winterize a boat for a Salish Sea winter. As your tech said a few low watt heaters is about all you need to do. I use the smaller oil filled heaters set on low. On each near a cabinet with plumbing with the door left open. That's it.

It won't hurt to drain the water lines if they run near the exterior. I've never done anything in the engine room, never drained a hot water tank because it's in the engine room. Anything near or below the water doesn't require special protection. I've never drained the water tank, though that may keep you from having to flush stale water out in the spring.

It doesn't get cold enough here to worry about the fuel gelling.

I do close the sea cocks when absent for a long time winter or summer.

I would not cut off the batteries because you would have no bilge pumps.


I worry more about the exterior. Mostly it's just rain around here but the occasional rain, snow, freeze repeat cycles are hard on teak decks, fittings, window seals etc.

I am taking our 45’ Californian MY to Bellingham, WA for the winter where it will remain in the water. The boatyard could not give me any meaningful guidance with respect to winterization other than keeping a few of the low wattage heaters going.

This will be our first winter with the boat in the PNW so I am hoping to get guidance from folks that do this every year in this area.

I plan to have 4 low wattage heaters going, drain the waterlines and the hot water tanks, add antifreeze in the traps and in the holding tank and add antigel in the fuel tanks.

Should I drain the water tank or fill it to the max? Do I place one low wattage heater in the ER? Do I cutoff the batteries or keep them charging? Do I close the thru-hulls? Is there a need for stronger heaters such as a ceramic heater with the thermostat set to very low?

I would very much appreciate any comments or input, please.

Thank you in advance

Streff

 

[cosmo]

+1 on what Portage Bay recommended. In my wife's and my 20+ years of boat ownership, we haven't done anymore than Portage Bay. I have learned that if you pickle it too much for winter, you won't use her. We have been known to have some beautiful-clear days in the winter. This is an excellent opportunity to take her out to shake the dust off. Grab some lunch and run it around Bellingham Bay or warm her up and stay the weekend.

It's a shame not to use her in our mostly mild winters (comparatively speaking).

Cory

 

[bshillam]

Make sure to run a dehumidifier open up your cabinets and run a few smaller fans to help circulate the air = no mold.
I typically will run a heater in the salon or run the engine block heaters or hot water tank. I use my boat year round though most seasons Oregon and Washington. Make sure to double check your cords, during the winter boater pull heavier loads and this is when we have boat fires.
During a cold snap I'll cover the engine room vents to keep the heat in the ER.

 

[MurrayM]

The PO owner of our boat never had a heat source in the engine room, even though the temperature regularly drops to -20C (14F) here for a couple weeks every winter.

His theory was the ocean was the heat source which radiated through the hull to keep the engine room above freezing, even though most of the boats in the marina get frozen in by fresh water creek ice on the surface of the bay.

I couldn’t do that, so we have a heat lamp pointed at the engine.

The most important thing, in our case, is to make sure wind isn’t forcing cold air into the boat through gaps in the doors. Other than that, we have small radiant heaters in the head, next to the fresh water pump/accumulator, and a small heater/fan in the saloon with cabinet doors open.

I also put window film on the saloon windows, using the heavier gauge stuff meant for patio doors. This year bubble wrap will be put on the pilothouse windows while we aren’t at the boat, and am experimenting with the 4mm thick outdoor furniture cover vinyl stuff on the window near the pilothouse stairs which gets damaged regularly when using the thinner stuff.

We use our boat on nice winter days (at least once a month to keep the engine happy) so it doesn’t get buttoned up too tight.

 

[Ken E.]

Bellingham gets an arctic NE wind from BC's Frazier River Valley that is much more severe than other Washington locations. I have lived and kept boats here for 45 years and I'll tell you what I do...many here will say it's overkill. I blow out the potable waterlines with compressed air and run potable antifreeze through the pumps, toilets and genset. I have block heaters on the engines that I run on timers that keep things about 20 degrees above ambient in the ER during cold snaps. The water tank isn't much of a concern since its in the belly of the boat, near 40+ degree sea water on the other side of the hull. Cover or plug ER vents so the wind can't whistle through with its associated chill factor. Remove all the exterior canvas you can or much of it will be shredded by spring. All of this may more than required but I've never had a water pipe freeze and break in an inaccessible place.

 

[tiltrider1]

The Puget Sound is 46-49 degrees during the winter. Turn off the water pump. Open the lowest faucet to drain the lines. Turn off the hot water heater. Place a few low wattage heaters in the engine room. You are now winterized.

Dry storage is different.

 

[koliver]

The Puget Sound is 46-49 degrees during the winter. Turn off the water pump. Open the lowest faucet to drain the lines. Turn off the hot water heater. Place a few low wattage heaters in the engine room. You are now winterized.

Dry storage is different.

What Ken E said is the most relevant to your location, though all the rest are valid comments, including TR.

What I do in Vancouver, BC is to leave the water heater and charger (both in the ER) on, for heat, leave a low wattage heater in both ends of the boat, on the lowest setting, lock the door, walk away.

This regime has worked well for 26 yrs, so far, including the past snowbird winters, when I have been several thousand km away for 4 to 7 months at a time. I have each of my kids stop by when it is convenient for them, just to be able to report back to me that Retreat is OK. The marina would also call if there was ever a problem.

 

[firehoser75]

Streff,
I do things a bit differently and probably overkill, at least partially due to the fact that I do not use our boat in the winter, and don't plan to.
I installed a Wolverine oil pan heater (only 250 watts) on the main engine and have it on 24/7. With the ER vents closed, it keeps the engine and the ER warm and dry, I am sure cutting down on rust issues that may develop in a cold, damp ER.
I drain and bypass the HW heater and drain the water tank, leaving them both empty. I also install a good quality freshwater antifreeze in the water lines and the outdoor saltwater washdown. The antifreeze is definitely overkill, but does not allow any potential "growth" in the water lines. All holding tanks are cleaned and drained to ensure no odours.

I close up all windows, and run a dehumidifier in the galley with it draining directly overboard through the galley sink. I also place a couple of low power heaters to take the "chill off" and to keep air circulating. I place 2 DryZAir containers in the master berth and empty them weekly.

All of this has a few advantages for me. First and foremost, it does not allow the growth of mold or mildew. The engine and ER are warm and dry reducing any worry about rust. The water tank and system is ready in the spring for a quick draining, and a preseason disinfection prior to filling. My power draw is between 5 and 15 amps well below where you would want it for a 30 amp system.
Admittedly not for everyone, but it works great for me.

 

[Northern Spy]

Oil pan heater (Polar Pad as it is CSA approved)

Caframo Pali (CSA approved) engine room heater. Doubt it ever comes on.

Drain water and blow out lines. But only if a long really cold (-10C is really cold in Powell River) snap is forecast.

Caframo Stor-Dry (CSA approved) warm air circulator x2

Hatch cracked.

Eva-dry petite dehumidifier running into galley sink. If a really cold snap is coming, I unplug it as the Peltier module freezes up.

That's it.

All heating devices are CSA or UL approved. My insurance policy requires it. Check yours.

 

[SteveK]

-Thru hulls off
-fresh water pump off
-open tap, leave open for possible freeze expansion
-turn off hot water tank the insulation prevents the heat escape to ER
-oil filled heaters in fore and aft. small heater in ER
-Batteries stay connected and inverter keeps charge maintenance
-Monitor boat with BRNKL

Have thought about a cup of antifreeze in head
AS others have said it can get cold but still above freeze most of the time inside boat with ocean temp and as long as power remains on.

 

[Xsbank]

Wind chill does not apply to objects, only skin!

The heaters are used mainly to keep the air circulating so no condensation therefore no unwanted growth. The more heat you install, the more moisture the heated air can hold so ignoring the cost of electricity, too much heat may be self-defeating.

If the saltwater freezes, you will have a problem but as previously mentioned, it doesn't do that here so the boat hull will always be above freezing.

I disconnected the intake heaters on my Cummins because it's too hard on the alternator yet my engine is alive at the first touch of the starter at 0 C. I think a panheater is a waste of time except for the ability to keep the air moving in the engine room. It's like a permanently installed space heater so you don't have to lug around those oil heaters each end of winter.

The worst part of a power fail here is now your bilge pumps are entirely on battery. You might find the interior damp but that will go away when the power comes back. If you have a fixture not in the hull, like a sink on the flying bridge, you should winterized that.

 

[Lepke]

If you don't want your heaters running on warm days, use the Thermocube, rated for 1500 watts. On at 35°, off at 45°. About $10 on Amazon. ebay, etc. There are other brands and ones for AC in the summer.

 

[Streff]

Thank you all for the guidance and great information & tips.

I now have a much better idea of a comprehensive plan. I purchase oil-filled heaters yesterday from HD. I wonder why oil heaters are the go-to heaters instead of ceramic fan heaters? Is it a safety issue or possibly performance?

I have 3 of the pancake-type Cafaramo very low level heaters/dehumidifiers. Would those be helpful in any way to keep them ON? Not sure if they are too weak as heaters to make a difference?

Completely draining the water tank is a challenge based on its low point.. so I am thinking of filling it to the brim 195gallons.. would that create an issue?

Thank you all again

Streff

 

[SteveK]

If the fan part fails but the heat part stays on then a fire hazard. An oil filled one fails, it then does not work at all.

Leave room for expansion, in case there is freezing

 

[koliver]

Thank you all for the guidance and great information & tips.

I now have a much better idea of a comprehensive plan. I purchase oil-filled heaters yesterday from HD. I wonder why oil heaters are the go-to heaters instead of ceramic fan heaters? Is it a safety issue or possibly performance?

I have 3 of the pancake-type Cafaramo very low level heaters/dehumidifiers. Would those be helpful in any way to keep them ON? Not sure if they are too weak as heaters to make a difference?

Completely draining the water tank is a challenge based on its low point.. so I am thinking of filling it to the brim 195gallons.. would that create an issue?

Thank you all again

Streff

My fresh water is in tanks in two separate areas. The first is under the double bed in the aft cabin, so at or below the waterline, but well away from direct contact with the underwater hull. One of the heaters that I leave on its lowest setting is in that cabin. That accounts for 1/2 of my 300 gals and unless the other tanks are totally empty, those are always completely full. The second is a pair of tanks in outboard, aft corners of the lazarette. The floor these tanks rest on is approximately at the water line, so these are, at least theoretically, exposed to frost, should a spell of very cold weather settle in.

I try to keep the water tanks full, though sometimes I forget about checking. In 26 winters in the same location, Retreat has been through several week long frosts. No problems have occurred, though I admit I have never used a temp gun to see just how cold they get. Since, due to Covid, I am going to be around this winter, I might try to do so.

We have our boats in a very benign location that simply doesn't require what those in the north or east need to be concerned about.

 

[Moonfish]

A dehumidifer (or two) draining into a sink or sump is a very good idea. I would also recommend placing Kanberra Gel containers in various locations througout the vessel. That will keep your air clean and help prohibit the growth of mold and mildew. We've been usin git on our boats for the last 10 years, and it is one of the few "must haves" on my wife's requirement list for living aboard in the PNW.

PM me if you would like more info. We sell them in our online store.

 

[lwarden]

Timely thread, great suggestions. I'm headed up to do my boat this weekend which is on the hard in Anacortes so I understand I need to take more care. Don't want to derail the thread but also don't want to start yet another one. Sorry OP if this is a derail...

Here is my plan:

• Install two 250W Wolverine heater pads to oil plans, both controlled by a thermostatic switch. Not sure what to set that to so any suggestions would be helpful. The idea is to cut down on engine corrosion.
• Drain water tank, disconnect inlet to pump and flush RV antifreeze through the lines and toilet (holding tank is pumped).
• Flush engines and generator with Salt Away. Should I drain the raw water side of the generator?
• Run RV antifreeze through raw water washdown and AC coolant pump & lines.
• Cover ER vents, set up WM dehumidifier down there.
• Setup Caframo heater on lower setting down low in the salon and a WM dehumidifier in the forward birth. Close all windows, open all cabinet doors.
• DriRite in lazarette (the generator is going to have to fend for itself).

Did I miss anything?

 

[firehoser75]

Iwarden,
I don't use a thermostat on my Wolverine heater. It is only 250 watts and is designed to run continuously. It keeps the engine warm, not hot, and makes cold weather starting easy with little to no smoke on startup. Do not cheap out on the antifreeze. Buy the propylene glycol based antifreeze, not the ethanol (alcohol) based cheaper product. The alcohol based product is harder on seals and rubber and can leave a "taste" behind that requires more flushing. Depending on where the boat is located (and if stored on the hard) and the likelihood of long cold snaps, you may want to run the RV antifreeze in the generator's raw water cooling side? Here in the PNW area, it is not necessary.