mbevins
Guru
I was thinking the same thing
I suspect that the hull probably had major scrapes and stuff from run ins with piers, posts and docks.
When is a WIP too much?
- Thread starter man n black
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I suspect that the hull probably had major scrapes and stuff from run ins with piers, posts and docks.
BruceK
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2011
- Messages
- 13,347
- Vessel Name
- Sojourn
- Vessel Make
- Integrity 386
Appreciate you are still considering whether to try to buy it, but if the unknown mechanical side is "make or break", asking to do a pre offer mechanical survey makes sense. It is not typical procedure, but this is not a typical boat, and it may determine the amount of, or even whether you make, an offer.
The presentation is unusual for a relatively young boat, is there any indication it has been submerged?
The presentation is unusual for a relatively young boat, is there any indication it has been submerged?
Portage_Bay
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,453
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Pacific Myst
- Vessel Make
- West Bay 4500
I've been working on estimates to get a 73 ft steel twin engine work boat from the U.K. to Seattle. The Med to Seattle is nearly the same distance. About $50K in fuel alone on her own bottom. That would be yourself as capt with friends and family as crew.
Professional deliveries started at $180K plus fuel, plus food, plus incidentals, plus Panama Canal costs, plus air fare. And that, judging by the questions asked, was a sketchy capt.
The one and only transport ship outfit to quote so far came in at $325K
In my opinion a boat with questionable mechanical history should cross oceans on her own bottom.
man n black
Veteran Member
Thanks to those offering good advice....
A pre offer survey sounds like a smart idea...
I thought new paint on a less than 10 year old boat too was strange...no evidence or story's that it's been submerged...We got that the owner was rather eccentric and was in the process of a refit refurb before his wife put the kaibosh on the boat lifestyle.
To answer another person's question this boat will be a full time live aboard world cruiser for my family which is why at the very least the interior needs to be refurbished.
From my research with the broker who brought these Expedition yachts to market there were several built...very few of them ever left Europe and most were bought by Russians as they liked the ship like lines of the hull. This boat was hull #1. We also looked at hull 2 which was nicer, certainly more mechanically sound, but the woodwork and wood floors needed refurbishment as well and we also looked at hull 8 (a 65 foot boat) that was 2 years newer and in FAR better shape than either of the others but had some cool options (folding mast, 3rd genset) though lacked an inside sit down dining room and HUGE dry storage of the larger craft..They are all relatively the same asking price, though this also seem inflated..especially hull 1.
Hull 1 made the journey from Croatia to the Gibraltar area as recently as a year ago on her bottom and power...
Sounds lke she sat unattended-unserviced for several years, was moved last year and has been sitting on her own keel in the marina slip unattended and unserviced/cared for ever since.
With hull 1 there are unfortunate ifs...
If we could get it cheap and if we could get it home to the US it would be far easier to refurb before we take it cruising...having just finished building a luxury home I have no doubt about my own abilities...
Ch
A pre offer survey sounds like a smart idea...
I thought new paint on a less than 10 year old boat too was strange...no evidence or story's that it's been submerged...We got that the owner was rather eccentric and was in the process of a refit refurb before his wife put the kaibosh on the boat lifestyle.
To answer another person's question this boat will be a full time live aboard world cruiser for my family which is why at the very least the interior needs to be refurbished.
From my research with the broker who brought these Expedition yachts to market there were several built...very few of them ever left Europe and most were bought by Russians as they liked the ship like lines of the hull. This boat was hull #1. We also looked at hull 2 which was nicer, certainly more mechanically sound, but the woodwork and wood floors needed refurbishment as well and we also looked at hull 8 (a 65 foot boat) that was 2 years newer and in FAR better shape than either of the others but had some cool options (folding mast, 3rd genset) though lacked an inside sit down dining room and HUGE dry storage of the larger craft..They are all relatively the same asking price, though this also seem inflated..especially hull 1.
Hull 1 made the journey from Croatia to the Gibraltar area as recently as a year ago on her bottom and power...
Sounds lke she sat unattended-unserviced for several years, was moved last year and has been sitting on her own keel in the marina slip unattended and unserviced/cared for ever since.
With hull 1 there are unfortunate ifs...
If we could get it cheap and if we could get it home to the US it would be far easier to refurb before we take it cruising...having just finished building a luxury home I have no doubt about my own abilities...
Ch
Last edited:
Wxx3
Dauntless Award
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2013
- Messages
- 2,820
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Dauntless
- Vessel Make
- Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Well, now you should be seeing a few more red flags.
A small number of "special" boats that were bought by Russians.
Nothing against Russians, but it sounds like the boats could NOT be purchased by citizens of the the E.U.
That would explain why this boat got as far as GIB and was basically abandoned.
I sense your enthusiasm and your willingness to take some risks.
But at this point I still see two big issues:
1. I think what many are trying to say above is that, it's possible, you could get this boat for free and still spend your life's savings on getting to shipshape.
Are you prepared for that?
2. When I bought Dauntless, she was the best of the Krogen's 42's the for sale, in terms of condition, hours, how she was maintained. Knowing our plan was to cross the Atlantic 15 months later, I spent those 15 months travelling from Florida to Nova Scotia, back to Florida and the Bahamas, then back to New England.
So that means I put about 1500 hours and 5,000+ miles before I even ventured more than a hundred miles from land.
This also gave me the time to sort out what needed changing, adding, and spares to carry.
So, If your plan was to move to the boat now and work on her in Europe until she was ready, then I could see a possibility that this would not be the disaster it seems to b e. But absent that. Please just walk away.
A small number of "special" boats that were bought by Russians.
Nothing against Russians, but it sounds like the boats could NOT be purchased by citizens of the the E.U.
That would explain why this boat got as far as GIB and was basically abandoned.
I sense your enthusiasm and your willingness to take some risks.
But at this point I still see two big issues:
1. I think what many are trying to say above is that, it's possible, you could get this boat for free and still spend your life's savings on getting to shipshape.
Are you prepared for that?
2. When I bought Dauntless, she was the best of the Krogen's 42's the for sale, in terms of condition, hours, how she was maintained. Knowing our plan was to cross the Atlantic 15 months later, I spent those 15 months travelling from Florida to Nova Scotia, back to Florida and the Bahamas, then back to New England.
So that means I put about 1500 hours and 5,000+ miles before I even ventured more than a hundred miles from land.
This also gave me the time to sort out what needed changing, adding, and spares to carry.
So, If your plan was to move to the boat now and work on her in Europe until she was ready, then I could see a possibility that this would not be the disaster it seems to b e. But absent that. Please just walk away.
Last edited:
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
"having just finished building a luxury home I have no doubt about my own abilities..."
Dirt houses have flat walls and many standards.
Boats are art in 3D and most systems are yard installed with no standards.
While a huge boat may resemble a house,, it is NOT and frequently vastly different skill sets are needed.
GRP repair , Welding? engine repair ?
Start with having someone get it running.
Dirt houses have flat walls and many standards.
Boats are art in 3D and most systems are yard installed with no standards.
While a huge boat may resemble a house,, it is NOT and frequently vastly different skill sets are needed.
GRP repair , Welding? engine repair ?
Start with having someone get it running.
What? Questionable history crossing on own bottom? Was a word omitted? Did you mean to say shouldn't?
To the OP, were you just asking us as a rhetorical question? You asked and got many answers, but your latest post seems to indicate a determination to proceed. The answers were fairly universal in saying that this was a case when the WIP was too much. You're determined and not going to let any number of responses discourage you. You're talking yourself into it while we're all trying to talk you out of it. It's a losing proposition all around but if it's your dream and ambition, then the best of luck.
In addition to all the above consider the boat will probably be set up for European electrical systems.
MAN engines of the past had some serious issues that may or may have not been taken care of with this model. In any case their reputation is of requiring thoroughbred care and attention.
MAN engines of the past had some serious issues that may or may have not been taken care of with this model. In any case their reputation is of requiring thoroughbred care and attention.
Portage_Bay
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,453
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Pacific Myst
- Vessel Make
- West Bay 4500
Yes, the word "not" was omitted. The fault no doubt of a late night double shot hot toddy trying to ward off what I hope is the last cold of the winter....
BruceK
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2011
- Messages
- 13,347
- Vessel Name
- Sojourn
- Vessel Make
- Integrity 386
If it is still in Gibraltar, as part of Brexit, there are suggestions of Spain angling to take control of what has been long a British occupied territory. How,whether,when, if, that affects getting a boat out of there I don`t know, but the situation could become volatile, sooner might be better.
man n black
Veteran Member
@BandB
I've succesfully followed your advice in the past.
As far as asking the original question...We area not dead set ahead on any boat and in fact have looked at many and will continue to do so in the meantime
I guess in asking my question here I was looking for some folks that have "actually" completed a similar refit/refurb (whether out of love or money doesn't matter) and was wondering IF there is a place to determine when the endeavor becomes to much to bear...Getting into an argument about whether we have the skills to do so is useless and I'll just call it an agree to disagree. I can concede that SOME boat stuff is highly specialized; though not alot of it...as (not to upset anyone) probably most work for boats, cars, trailers, houses or whatever isn't completed by rocket scientists or extremely specialized technicians..
This is why we can see the value in this boat for us at the right price, barring any catastrophic engine/hydraulic failures...and provided we could get her here to the US reasonably economically . Travelling back and forth to Europe without our regular tools would be a major PITA and we are extremely hands on when it comes to correcting technical defects...a part of us relishes the challenge of doing and learning new stuff (we'd have to learn some technical stuff anyways to cross oceans), but we are already well versed wood repair, general construction techniques, mechanical troubleshooting and fixing and FRP..I'm a bit at knowledge defecit with MAN engines (easily conquered) and with boat hydraulics in general (probably highly specialized) and might need some help/learning marine electrical (specialized but also conquerable)...
Much good advice has been given here especially from those few folks moving boats, having rescued boats etc. and I appreciate that....All these answers help us gauge our own level of risk taking and or how far we want to entertain this option to get us to our overall life goals sooner (not necessarily cruising sooner btw)
Ch
I've succesfully followed your advice in the past.
As far as asking the original question...We area not dead set ahead on any boat and in fact have looked at many and will continue to do so in the meantime
I guess in asking my question here I was looking for some folks that have "actually" completed a similar refit/refurb (whether out of love or money doesn't matter) and was wondering IF there is a place to determine when the endeavor becomes to much to bear...Getting into an argument about whether we have the skills to do so is useless and I'll just call it an agree to disagree. I can concede that SOME boat stuff is highly specialized; though not alot of it...as (not to upset anyone) probably most work for boats, cars, trailers, houses or whatever isn't completed by rocket scientists or extremely specialized technicians..
This is why we can see the value in this boat for us at the right price, barring any catastrophic engine/hydraulic failures...and provided we could get her here to the US reasonably economically . Travelling back and forth to Europe without our regular tools would be a major PITA and we are extremely hands on when it comes to correcting technical defects...a part of us relishes the challenge of doing and learning new stuff (we'd have to learn some technical stuff anyways to cross oceans), but we are already well versed wood repair, general construction techniques, mechanical troubleshooting and fixing and FRP..I'm a bit at knowledge defecit with MAN engines (easily conquered) and with boat hydraulics in general (probably highly specialized) and might need some help/learning marine electrical (specialized but also conquerable)...
Much good advice has been given here especially from those few folks moving boats, having rescued boats etc. and I appreciate that....All these answers help us gauge our own level of risk taking and or how far we want to entertain this option to get us to our overall life goals sooner (not necessarily cruising sooner btw)
Ch
Last edited:
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
One requirement for any repair/retrofit is local parts sources.
Long gone is the day of a large fully stocked marine hardware store , so parts comparisons have to be done on line , then ordered. UGH.
IF the vessel can be made running , you might try a shipping broker that could get it on as deck cargo , perhaps to Panama or even to a US port.
The boat is unloaded after docking , over the water side.
Ca$h deals can be done and you will need to be aboard if there is anything of value inside the boat.
Up from Panama on either coast is less work than a crossing.East coast is least hassle.
You might also scope out boat yards in central America to use low cost labor for much of the grunt work.
Long gone is the day of a large fully stocked marine hardware store , so parts comparisons have to be done on line , then ordered. UGH.
IF the vessel can be made running , you might try a shipping broker that could get it on as deck cargo , perhaps to Panama or even to a US port.
The boat is unloaded after docking , over the water side.
Ca$h deals can be done and you will need to be aboard if there is anything of value inside the boat.
Up from Panama on either coast is less work than a crossing.East coast is least hassle.
You might also scope out boat yards in central America to use low cost labor for much of the grunt work.
Last edited:
