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Old 06-11-2015, 01:12 AM   #101
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The drawback to leaving things like rails unfinished (as opposed to deck planks) is that it's just a matter of time before the teak will begin to crevice with the grain. Deck planks don't do this (unless provoked into it by pressure washing, heavy scrubbing with the grain, etc.) because of the way they are sawn. But in-the-round pieces like rails will weather into crevices relatively quickly depending on the climate. I've seen it happen on several boats, power and sail, on our dock over the years.

So if one wants to maximize the longevity of a smooth teak surface on things like hand, grab, and cap rails but doesn't want to finish bright, Eric is correct; better to paint the teak than leave it unprotected in the weather.

And if one decides to paint the raw teak, better to apply a coat of varnish first to seal the wood so that the paint will not penetrate down into the grain. This will make it easy to refinish the teak bright if the owner or a subsequent owners wants to go that direction in the future
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:52 AM   #102
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The drawback to leaving things like rails unfinished (as opposed to deck planks) is that it's just a matter of time before the teak will begin to crevice with the grain.
...
That time has already come. Quite a bit of sanding would be required to restore a smooth finish to my cap rails etc.

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Old 06-11-2015, 01:53 AM   #103
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Cetol Update

To everyone, many thanks who responded to my question about Cetol.

The take-home message from my post seems to be:

1. I should avoid cleaning with pressure washer as it drives water into the wood, drying can be uneven and lead to residual water under the finish, staining or mold

2. I did not apply enough coats originally (the weather turned bad, so I had to shut it down for the winter after 2 coats).

3. Preparation is key, with any coating, but Cetol may hold up longer with fewer coats.

4. I can repair the stained areas by sanding, or stripping the Cetol, using a brightener, or acetone, and then re-apply after it is thoroughly dry

5. Nice to put a gloss coat on top of the base coats (for looks).

I am so pleased to have everyones input. The weather is good again, and I will be taking Synergy out to the San Juan Islands in June. So no sanding or varnishing until I get some time on the water.

I can comment on why I chose Cetol in the first place. I tried layering a marine varnish (diluted with turpentine and oil) for the first few coats, but it turned color and lost its luster in one season. I have a house in the Kitsap Peninsula (a very rainy place) which is Cedar siding. The house has a window that is finished with varnish while the Cedar siding is finished with Cetol. Both were factory applied, to fresh wood. The Cetol is holding up beautifully after 7 years, while the varnish is crazed, flaked, pealing. I wish I had photos to post to show the difference in outcomes, under the exact same weather conditions, but that is for another day.

Like others, I have to consider the number of days I spend boating versus varnishing. Its all a tradeoff.

I will see if I can restore the stained areas and recoat.

Many, many thanks.
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Old 06-11-2015, 02:50 AM   #104
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Greetings,
Good grief. In the midst of this 90+ post long p*ssing contest has anyone else noticed that the OP (Mr. Cheech'), a newby, has not responded? I hope he has not been scared off after just 1 post...
RT Firely:
The OP is here ! I have been busy at my day (and night) job, while lurking the thread for answers and learning as much as I can. Takes a lot more to scare me off
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:34 AM   #105
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:08 AM   #106
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Sanded our bottom rail and used Cetol (assumed that's what was there before) Looked good at first but now has hazed over and obviously not adhered to the undercoat. Any way of knowing what was there before? It was in too good a condition to take down to the bare wood and start over.
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:44 AM   #107
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Teak Top Rails - To Cetol or Not Cetol

Deidra: I'm not entirely sure about your particular situation but I don't think you can resurrect it now. I'm of the opinion that it's often best to strip the old finish every few years. For my 42' vessel, stripping and sanding the cap rail would take me about 8-12 hours.

I use a heat gun and putty knife. Put the heat gun on the highest heat setting, and keep it moving over the wood or you will scorch it. I put the nozzle right on the wood with the putty knife following it. If you are scratching or gouging the wood, there's a problem! Stop and think about what's wrong. Go with the grain of the wood. Once stripped, sanding goes quickly, and in my view, less is more when it come to sanding. He goal is to remove the remaining old finish and get the "silver" off the exposed wood. Teak is soft and trying to get that last bit of black off is too difficult with an older boat. And I'm not a big fan,of chemicals as these can remove too much wood. Just leave it as the antique look.

I use 2 coats Cetol natural teak and up to 8 coats Cetol marine gloss. I'm pleased with the results on our boat.

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Old 11-19-2018, 04:31 PM   #108
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Having owned and maintained a larger wooden boat for 35 years, I've done a whole lot of brightwork and painting.

The key to longevity is to prep meticulously and then to get a good enough base on so you don't have to re-do, but can instead focus on maintenance.

https://onedrive.live.com/?id=4B0437...04370AC06645C3

is a link to my new-to-me OA Classico 423 which required a complete teak cap rail and hand rail re-finish.....it took 21 days of work to prep then apply 12 coats of Epiphanes varnish, but it now takes me less than 2 days every couple of years to scuff it up with a green 3M pad, and apply 2 new coats. The base is solid, you just treat the surface as sacrificial, and renew it faithfully.....easy work.....but it's like oil changes....ignore maintenance at your peril.

Same process...my previous long-term Chris Craft Connie 40:

https://onedrive.live.com/?id=4B0437...04370AC06645C3

As soon as the varnish starts to dull, scuff and 2 coats. My Chris Craft toe rails went for over 20 years without the need to strip and start over.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:33 PM   #109
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I am a little surprised that there has been no mention in the Treatise created by the OP's simple original question, of newer products such as Awlgrip's AwlWood and Pettite's Sea Gold. On the Australian East Coast, there has been a definite swing I think by yards and owners towards AwlWood. Yards like it because they can get 2-3 coats on in a day; owners, because it looks better than Cetol AND lasts longer. I can attest to this myself: in sub-tropical to tropical cruising, while I found Cetol looked ok and lasted MUCH better than even a good traditional varnish, the AwlWood lasts even longer and re-coating with a couple coats of clear every 2 years is easy/inexpensive.


We cannot get Pettite's new Sea Gold here and I've only read the marketing bumpf out of the US...but it is a reputable brand for other products. It is water-based, which is interesting in itself. Have any of our North American friends tried it yet?
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:54 AM   #110
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Cetol Gloss has more UV inhibitors than the other versions, apparently. On my boat we applied 6 coats of the Gloss over well-prepared bare teak. So far it has lasted a year with little if any degredation and it looks GREAT. Where the finish got scratched I did a bit of sanding and spot-applied 3 coats and now can't find the "repaired" spots. Finally, remember...IT'S A BOAT NOT A HARPSICHORD.
Enjoy
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:16 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deidra View Post
Sanded our bottom rail and used Cetol (assumed that's what was there before) Looked good at first but now has hazed over and obviously not adhered to the undercoat. Any way of knowing what was there before? It was in too good a condition to take down to the bare wood and start over.
What are you apprehensive about? It sounds like there was traces of contamination like the rails wern’t clean.
No way of knowing what was there before. No real need to know as long as it was well adhered to the rails.

Covering up w a thick coating like varnish will help mask issues w what was there before as long as the original coating is solidly adhered to the rail. But thin coatings will adhere if clean, solid and sanded a bit and applied w numerous coats. There may be isolated spots that will require some scraping before sanding like where fasteners and joints are.

My knee jerk reaction is to sand a bit and wash down w a clean lint free rag w some solvent. I use “Prep-All” in a red and green can. Wring out the rag in a open top container like a small plastic tub w a little solvent in the botton. Sand a bit more and wipe down w a damp/wet rag wrung out often. There may be stuff on the rail that is water soluble that the solvent won’t lift off. Let dry throughly and re-coat w a product following directions on the can. Use a tack cloth if you want the best result.

I use a high oil varnish that is most flexable for cap rails because of joints and fastener protrusions ect where the slight movements will likely cause the coating to crack or break. Usually needed on cap rails. Look for black stains from water intrusions from the past.
Use a low oil varnish (harder) for high wear areas where scuffing and scratching will be sure to happen like on teak steps.
Read the can for all coatings and ask the best people you can find for details not on the can like oil to resin ratios.
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Old 11-21-2018, 12:05 PM   #112
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Not sure that putting Cetol of any flavor over anything but Cetol will provide good results. I have used Cetol for 18 years. Starting from bare wood 3 coats of Cetol Natural and then 2 coats of gloss gets me 3 seasons in New England. At 3 years just wash with a scotch bright pad and add 2 coats of gloss.
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Old 11-22-2018, 03:42 AM   #113
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my rails are done in cetol light 2 coats and cetol gloss 3 coat. Will do two or three coat next spring. They are very glossy and deep looking.Click image for larger version

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Old 11-22-2018, 09:00 AM   #114
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I always thought Cetol was a great compromise. Probably not as pretty as varnish but still pretty nice.

Varnish = 8 coats...sanding between.....maintenance coat every year

Cetol = 5 coats...no sanding between....Maintenance every couple or 3 years
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:37 AM   #115
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Easting,
You’re absolutely right. And lots of people like Cetol. And it’s less maintenance but not a lot. If you maintain varnish regularly it’s not much trouble. Likeyou say once a year light sand and brush on another coat. The annual re-coating isn’t so bad .... but the wood-down and re-coat is. And if you do the annual the finish gets better over the years and it gets thicker. The thickness is good and highly sought after by the experts. It gives that deep look that no Cetol can produce. But after 10 years or so it needs to be removed. My varnish is 3-4yrs old now and is in good condition. Haven’t re-coated in that time but I’m under covered moorage too. I have varnished cedar in-wales in my 18’ open OB boat that’s been in a carport or tarped outside and it’s in great shape after about 14yrs. So it’slargely dependant on the exposure.

But Cetol looks OK for those willing to sacrifice the high gloss and deep natural wood color. And not being knowledgeable about Cetol I don’t know how ofter it needs the light sand and a coat treatment. But even paint requires some maintenance. I’ve even seen some boats wcap rail ect painted in a medium dark brown color that was agood substitute for varnish and didn’t scream “look he painted his brightwork” look. Almost unnoticeable but w most colors the lack of varnish visually sticks out. I’ve seen dark maroon that looks quite good. Black looks fairly good but is quite noticeable.

But the re-coating for Cetol drill I don’t know. It is less than varnish and may require less sanding too. But if you like the look it’sa win win. I’ve always considered it a substitute for varnish.

“8 coats for varnish”? Most of the time I use 4. But I use a high oil high quality varnish and several thinned coats (highly thinned at first) so there’s your 8 coats. But the thinned pre-coats go on quickly.
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Old 11-23-2018, 01:42 AM   #116
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Ive tried to like the look of cetol, but just canít get there. Iíll also say that Iíve stripped both cetol and varnish. Neither is easier when the finish is blown, so no advantage either way in the prep. Cetol is easier to apply, but it does seem that done right itís 70% of the work for 50% of the appearance. Three coats of cetol or 3 coats of varnish seem to start looking nice. Neither seem to make it more than about a season and a half. Easier to build cetol with less sanding though. I now use Epifanes woodfinish gloss. It can be recoated within a couple days with no sanding, so there is a window in which it is not that much more work. 85% of the work for 95% of the appearance. Varnish does demand its yearly update though and really does not even start to perform at less than 6 coats. Really needs 8-10 to start to survive, but 6 will get you through year 1 pretty easily. So the year 1 work is really not terribly much more than the orange alternative.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:20 PM   #117
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Ive tried to like the look of cetol, but just canít get there. Iíll also say that Iíve stripped both cetol and varnish. Neither is easier when the finish is blown, so no advantage either way in the prep. Cetol is easier to apply, but it does seem that done right itís 70% of the work for 50% of the appearance. Three coats of cetol or 3 coats of varnish seem to start looking nice. Neither seem to make it more than about a season and a half. Easier to build cetol with less sanding though. I now use Epifanes woodfinish gloss. It can be recoated within a couple days with no sanding, so there is a window in which it is not that much more work. 85% of the work for 95% of the appearance. Varnish does demand its yearly update though and really does not even start to perform at less than 6 coats. Really needs 8-10 to start to survive, but 6 will get you through year 1 pretty easily. So the year 1 work is really not terribly much more than the orange alternative.
Im starting to experiment with epifanes. So far I like it alot. It seem pretty forgiving when applying.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:32 PM   #118
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I used Cetol on our teak toe rails and took them down to bare wood, put 3 coats on per the directions. After 2 summers in Michigan with the boat stored inside half the time during the winters the Cetol is gone in places. Unfortunately I have a lot of exterior teak so I am looking for a longer term solution. I think either Awlwood or going the paint route with Briteside poly paint. I am leaning towards the paint as I think it will hold up longer and refinishing will also be easier when it is needed.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:54 PM   #119
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Im starting to experiment with epifanes. So far I like it alot. It seem pretty forgiving when applying.
Most any brand name varnish gives excellent results. I use McKlosky’s Spar varnish but Schooner by Interlux and many others (like Epifanes) give the same results. Of course because they all are made with the same stuff. Cetol is not.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:48 PM   #120
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I used Cetol on our teak toe rails and took them down to bare wood, put 3 coats on per the directions. After 2 summers in Michigan with the boat stored inside half the time during the winters the Cetol is gone in places. Unfortunately I have a lot of exterior teak so I am looking for a longer term solution. I think either Awlwood or going the paint route with Briteside poly paint. I am leaning towards the paint as I think it will hold up longer and refinishing will also be easier when it is needed.
I'm going to try epoxy first then varnish over the epoxy. I watch it on boatworks today on youtube. The results look really nice. I have lots of teak to try it on. So I will do some small projects to see how it holds. I am liking the varnish/ epifanes.
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