Sound Proofing Material Recommendations

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Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
1,357
Location
US
Vessel Name
Northern Lights II
Vessel Make
Bayliner 3870
I have to replace the material for sound and I suspect heat transfer from the engine compartment. The original material is foil faced with a yellow material under that, it has started to fall apart. The marina has some named "Soundown". I would appreciate any reviews on this and any other brands that the members are familiar with. Thank you in advance for your help.
 
I used 2" soundown when I rebuilt my engine room. It is very effective although it is also a bit pricey. It has held up well although it isn't very abrasion resistant. The adhesive backing was all I needed to hold it on except for one piece on the overhead where I had to use screws.
 
Acoustic and Thermal insulations don't typically do each others jobs very well, but acoustic insulation will have some thermal properties. There are exceptions but generally this is the case.

Mass is what stops noise, soft stuff absorbs, there is a difference. You did not describe if your existing insulation was heavy or not, but there are two types of mass commonly used in boats, mass loaded vinyl and lead. These are commonly used in the US in either 1 or 2 lbs per sq ft.

The most common replacement insulation for a vessel like yours will be a vinyl / foam composite insulation. It will have a decoupler layer to enhance the performance of the vinyl barrier, and an absorption layer towards the noise. There will usually be a vapor barrier "face" that will be foil or mylar type finish.

A less expensive and maybe closer to a direct replacement will be just an absorber like acoustic foam or fiberglass with a vapor barrier.

Soundown is a brand, and they make hundreds of products including about a few dozen versions of vinl / foam insulation. The usual thickness goes from 1/2" to 2" in 1/2" increments, and with either a 1lb sq ft or 2lb sq ft choice.

For diesel boats 2lb is better for the lower frequency noise from a diesel engine. For a gas boat, 1lb is usually adequate.

Noise is easy, more is better.

:socool:
 

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What is on the hatches now is heavy and probably 1" thick. It is deteriorating on the hatches and that is what I'am looking to replace. The Soundown available from the marina is 1/2" or 1" thick, I will have them try to source the thicker product. Thank you
 
Soundown 2 inches thick with 2 lbs of lead per sq ft.

Aint cheap!
 
Nothing I've found for a boat is cheap, other than a few owners I've ran across.
 
I have to replace the material for sound and I suspect heat transfer from the engine compartment. The original material is foil faced with a yellow material under that, it has started to fall apart. The marina has some named "Soundown". I would appreciate any reviews on this and any other brands that the members are familiar with. Thank you in advance for your help.


Cork, Cork, Cork.....

Then add Cork...
 
If you're really looking for quiet, start with lead sheeting. Foam works good on bulkheads or walls outside the engine room. On new commercial fishing boat builds, spray in foam is used and sealed behind plywood and fiberglass. Properly done, engines are not heard.
 
Cork, Cork, Cork.....

Then add Cork...

Cork looks good but how's the fire rating? We're getting ready to redo our engine room and that question came up about another prduct. I'm just starting to dig into it and the marine insulations all seem be rated. Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions?
 
I don't mean to hijack the post but I have an I/O and the engine cover has no insulation. What should I use in this situation?
 
Cork looks good but how's the fire rating? We're getting ready to redo our engine room and that question came up about another prduct. I'm just starting to dig into it and the marine insulations all seem be rated. Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions?

Fire rating is excellent - you need to keep a torch on it for it to smoulder. You can google it.

I have added a layer in my engine room...
 
The science of noise reduction leads all manufacturers down the same type design path. A typical vinyl / foam composite insulation will look very similar regardless of who made it and is the most appropriate insulation for most of the vessels talked about here.

The face will be a vapor barrier to protect the foam from absorbing engine room vapors and give it some physical protection. This will be very thin to allow noise to penetrate to the:

Absorption layer, which will reduce the noise in the engine space by not increasing it do to reverberation. The next layer is the

Barrier Layer. This used to be lead, and was used in 1 or 2 lb per sq ft sizes. Lead got too pricey and is toxic so the entire industry switched to mass loaded vinyl, in 1 or 2 lb per sq ft sizes. Works as well as lead, weighs the same as lead, is cheaper and in some ways better. The last layer is:

The decoupler layer. This layer decouples the mass layer from the bulkhead or overhead enhancing the performance of the mass layer as a barrier.

US manufacturers of these products are the previously mentioned Soundown as well as Technicon and American Acoustical. They all make the same style insulation because they all have to abide by the same laws of noise reduction.

There are differences in the grade or quality of the components as well as the laminating process between these manufacturers. Of these 3 manufacturers, Soundown is primarily marine and dabbles in other industries, and the other two are primarily automotive and industrial and dabble in marine.

Wherever you purchase an insulation like described above and looks kind of what's pictured below most probably came from one of these 3 manufacturers.

As for fire resistance, all the components in this type insulation will typically be self extinguishing, but will burn if exposed to an open flame. For incombustible insulation you have to go to fiberglass, ceramic, mineral wool, or exotic materials.

When it comes to noise the rule is simple, more is better. The more stuff you put between you and the noise the more noise will be reduced. Engineered noise products like vinyl / foam composites give the best performance for a given installation space for a reasonable price. The mass loaded vinyl by itself will reduce noise, but not as well as if part of a composite.

Foam or anything soft will reduce noise in the engine space, ant therefore reduce noise throughout the vessel, but because it has little mass will not be a very good barrier.

:socool:
 

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Agree with your post.

I exacerbated a bit on my new build as its not easy to redo.

So I did the following:

1 x Mascoat sound reducing coat sprayed onto the steel
1 x 1" foam/heavy/foam layer
1 x 2" foam/heavy/foam layer
1 x 6mm cork
1 x 5mm perforated white sound absorbing plate.
 
Adding to my post:

I also added 4 extra welded legs on the engine stringers (reduces the vibrations) and used Isoflex engine mounts matched to the engine/gearbox weight.

When doing noise elimination from the beginning then it's a complete package - as one doesn't know how the things work out exactly.

My next "measure" is a Walker Airsep, K&N or similar air intake filter. I think that will be the end of it...I've done my best to silence my Iveco NA engine.....

I expect my engine to be running within 3 month so I will be able to advise if my countermeasures worked......
 
@ Keysdiseas

Your mentioned examples might burn if exposed to an open flame - cork will not...it's cheap, available, fire "safe", noise and thermal insulating..

Is there a another product available out there with these properties?

The density and size of the cork mix is important - so make sure you order the right mix - follow the link that was posted earlier on...

Buy a roll from China, glue it on..
 
I also added a 6mm layer of cork to the underside of all floors towards (facing) the hull...

Cheapest sound and noise insulation available in one package.....(roll)
 
I am not familiar with any wood product that won't burn. I did some research into cork sheet and found the most common binder is polyester. I did find a reference that treated cork might be rated as "fire resistant" which means nothing. I did find a flame test for a 50mm (2") cork board that resisted flame penetration for 4 hours at 1500*f. I doubt 6mm cork bits in a polyester binder would do as well.

6mm cork has an STC (sound transmission class) of 23. 3mm (1/8") of mass loaded vinyl (1lb sq ft) has an STC of 28. 6mm (1/4") of mass loaded vinyl (2lb sq ft) has an STC of 32. That's a pretty big difference.

STC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_transmission_class

Cork can be a good thermal insulation and a decent decoupler when used correctly, that's why you find it in flooring, to decouple hard finish floors from the structural sub floor.

The reality is that combustibility just isn't that important in a fiberglass or wood boat. There is already so much fire load in a typical engine space like wood, rubber, lubricants, the fiberglass itself, that it's really not an issue. Vinyl / Foam composite insulation has been used in boats for decades.

For a steel or aluminum boat it should strictly be incombustible insulation, because the structure of the boat is itself incombustible.

I understand that you seem to have religion over cork, but unless the laws of physics are different in Hong Kong, 6mm of cork is not going to perform as well acoustically as 6mm of mass and especially mass in a composite of absorber and decoupler.



:socool:




@ Keysdiseas

Your mentioned examples might burn if exposed to an open flame - cork will not...it's cheap, available, fire "safe", noise and thermal insulating..

Is there a another product available out there with these properties?

The density and size of the cork mix is important - so make sure you order the right mix - follow the link that was posted earlier on...

Buy a roll from China, glue it on..
 
Fascinating subject. Back when I was an employed architect I was fortunate enough to work on theaters and symphony halls. Our sound consultant worked all over the world on land-based as well as cruise ship sound isolation as part of their main task of acoustical performance within the space; the fellow I worked with went on to work on sound control on submarines.

Anyway, the basics include: structure-borne noise and air-borne noise. The structure-borne noise is much tougher, isolating engines, motors, traffic, helicopter noise and all. The solutions involve motor- and engine mounts, vibration isolation, weight, discontinuity of structures, floppy or non-resonant structures. Much tougher when you care what your boat, or your cruise ship weighs. The other isolation involves air-borne noise, tackled with air tightness, gaskets, etc.: somewhat easier since stopping air leaks is at least doable with sealants, gaskets, etc. Any holes open between the source and the space you want quiet is worth tracking down.
 
Excellent point. Good gaskets on hatches and sealed penetrations can account for 5-10 dba. The biggest bang for the buck in noise reduction is $20 worth of gasket.

And you are correct about structure borne noise. Not as straight forward as airborne noise, and sometimes very difficult.

As with any issue, figuring out the source of the problem is the first step. Airborne problems call for airborne solutions, which are what most people address, usually with insulation. Many think foam is the universal answer. Structure borne problems call for structure borne solutions, as you mention usually isolation mounts, decoupling, damping.

I have seen pumps that make bothersome noise with a home made enclosure over them and the owner wondering why he can still hear the noise in his stateroom.

:socool:


The other isolation involves air-borne noise, tackled with air tightness, gaskets, etc.: somewhat easier since stopping air leaks is at least doable with sealants, gaskets, etc. Any holes open between the source and the space you want quiet is worth tracking down.
 
I did test the cork vs the foam - the foam burned - the cork didn't....That experiment might not work in US though as things seems to be weird there now.
 
The cost has dropped , many new cars have noise canceling mufflers.

Perhaps active noise canceling for the vessel would have better results than just No Noise?
 
The cost has dropped , many new cars have noise canceling mufflers.

Perhaps active noise canceling for the vessel would have better results than just No Noise?

That's a great point. My corporate offices have gone open concept in the last couple of years, and active noise cancellation has allowed that. I can look around and see people having conversations but have a very hard time hearing them. I think that similar systems have been installed on some airliners. Perfect for tuning to reduce certain categories of noise, and I would think very applicable to our boats.
 

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