Shower drain plumbing thoughts

[JohnEasley]

We’ve owned our boat a little over a year. One of the previous owners had the floor of each shower redone in a sort of grainy, non-slip surface. I like the surface; it’s nice.

When they redid it, they apparently dropped some sort of insert into the drain that is attached to a 3/4” hose that runs through the old drain hose and to an aftermarket suction pump that discharges directly overboard. When showering, you have to flip on the switch for the suction pump and you can hear it slurping and gurgling through the drain.

In this photo of the drain, you can barely see the 3/4” hose insert under the cover plate.

The underside of the shower drain is not directly accessible. However, a few inches away, it exits through a stringer and comes out here:

The original drain hose passes through another stringer:

When it comes out on the other side of the stringer, you can see it has been cut off and the 3/4” insert hose is coming out of the original hose.

It passes through a strainer and into a noisy, non-factory Whale Gulper pump before being discharged overboard through a Y fitting, bypassing the sump pan entirely.

The sump currently only collects the gray water from the sink and the a/c condensate.

Both showers have been modified to work this way.

It works but it’s noisy and unnecessarily complicated.

I’ve spoken with other Jefferson owners and with a couple of mechanics who maintain Jeffersons. All of them say their showers drain directly to the sump, connecting through a Y fitting that also comes from the sink. No external, aftermarket pump.

Has anyone seen this modification before? Can you tell me more about the insert in the shower drain? (I have not yet taken it apart) Is there a compelling reason to leave it as is?

Any information would be helpful.

Thanks.

John

 

[rslifkin]

I have a similar setup to yours (factory on my boat), with no sumps and just a switched pump to drain the shower directly overboard. It's a bit noisy, but it works well. The Whale Gulper pumps don't need a strainer inline for shower use, so if you remove that, it becomes a very low maintenance setup compared to cleaning out a sump.

Those pumps can run dry with no issue, so just flip the pump on when you start the shower and turn it off at the end, no need to switch on/off when you turn the water on/off. And unlike a sump with a float switched pump, this setup provides immediate confirmation that it's working correctly as soon as you start your shower.

My sinks drain directly overboard. 2 of my A/Cs are mounted high enough to gravity drain condensate overboard, the 3rd one isn't and drains to the bilge.

 

[DavidM]

A more typical installation uses an integrated plastic sump box and pump. Rule and others make them. Shower drains and condensate drains are both directed to the box which has 2-3 inlets.

The box has a long perforated strainer that picks up all of the hair that would otherwise foul the sump pump. The sump pump is just a normal bilge pump with a float switch.

You can leave it on all of the time because the float switch turns the pump on when needed.

Your installation requires turning the pump off and on. Also that little strainer on the pump suction will quickly foul with hair. I have to clean mine which uses the Rule sump box out after a couple of dozen or so showers.

David

 

[JohnEasley]

A more typical installation uses an integrated plastic sump box and pump. Rule and others make them. Shower drains and condensate drains are both directed to the box which has 2-3 inlets.

The box has a long perforated strainer that picks up all of the hair that would otherwise foul the sump pump. The sump pump is just a normal bilge pump with a float switch.

You can leave it on all of the time because the float switch turns the pump on when needed.

Your installation requires turning the pump off and on. Also that little strainer on the pump suction will quickly foul with hair. I have to clean mine which uses the Rule sump box out after a couple of dozen or so showers.

David

Hi David,

I think these two showers were originally designed like yours and were retrofitted with the layout shown in the photos. Both do have a sump with an 800 gph pump that does a great job of keeping the sump levels at a minimum but currently only the sink and condensate route to the sump. The shower system they rigged up bypasses the sump. I would like to go back to the original design but I’m looking for any compelling reasons to leave it, as is.

 

[Datenight]

Hi David,

I would like to go back to the original design but I’m looking for any compelling reasons to leave it, as is.

It works fine, reason enough for me!

Rob

 

[rslifkin]

Hi David,

I think these two showers were originally designed like yours and were retrofitted with the layout shown in the photos. Both do have a sump with an 800 gph pump that does a great job of keeping the sump levels at a minimum but currently only the sink and condensate route to the sump. The shower system they rigged up bypasses the sump. I would like to go back to the original design but I’m looking for any compelling reasons to leave it, as is.

How far above the waterline are the sinks and A/C units that drain to those sumps? If they're up high enough, you might be able to plumb them directly overboard and eliminate the sumps entirely. In my mind, no sumps and just the shower pump (with the filter removed, as the Whale pump will tolerate hair) is a simpler, lower maintenance setup.

 

[mvweebles]

How far above the waterline are the sinks and A/C units that drain to those sumps? If they're up high enough, you might be able to plumb them directly overboard and eliminate the sumps entirely. In my mind, no sumps and just the shower pump (with the filter removed, as the Whale pump will tolerate hair) is a simpler, lower maintenance setup.

Agreed. My head sink drains overboard, but my shower has the Whale Gulper setup. If my head sink is above waterline in my deep keel'd full displacement boat, I gotta believe the OP's sink is too.

BTW - I too have the pesky filter on my Whale - didn't know I didn't need it. Thanks - I learned something today.

Peter

 

[hollywood8118]

I believe the Nordhavn 57 fwd showers were built with a similar setup, you turn the pump on when you start and it grinds away while you shower.. I always figured it was a audible reminder to keep guests from using too much water.. it worked that way for me.

On our Ocean Alexander we have a typical sump arrangement that always drains slow and requires too much maintenance to keep it flowing. When our current sump pump craters I will go to the gulper setup as it works really well.


HOLLYWOOD

 

[Solly]

I'm thinking maybe there was a problem with the original drain line. They just snaked a smaller line inside the old since it goes thru the stringers. They could have just put a reducer on the old line to the pump if they wanted too. Also maybe the old line didn't drain well to the sump. The pump will suck the water out.
Don't know. PO must of had a good reason to do it.
"If's it's not broke, don't fix it" goes a long way.....

 

[Dougcole]

In my opinion the Gulper set up is better than a sump box, other than the noise. The Gulper requires no maintenance. The sump box requires regular cleaning and is served by a failure prone float switch on a pump that is really only designed to pump clean water.


The 3/4" hose pushed into the larger hose is odd to me, doesn't it leak? I'd use a step down hose adapter there or just replace the entire hose from the shower drain fitting to the pump.

 

[O C Diver]

I have the Gulper and a sump with a float switch. It works extremely well. If the noise is the issue, wrap the pump in sound insulation material.

Ted

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I'm thinking maybe there was a problem with the original drain line. They just snaked a smaller line inside the old since it goes thru the stringers. They could have just put a reducer on the old line to the pump if they wanted too. Also maybe the old line didn't drain well to the sump. The pump will suck the water out.
Don't know. PO must of had a good reason to do it.
"If's it's not broke, don't fix it" goes a long way.....

I would agree. Besides, for me, cleaning the screen in a shower sump box is the most nastiest job on my boat. Almost loose my cookies every time!!

 

[Larry M]

I have the Gulper and a sump with a float switch. It works extremely well. If the noise is the issue, wrap the pump in sound insulation material.

Ted

I’d like the noise. It’s an indicator the pump is on. We can’t hear ours and the shower sump pump has failed a couple of times. We both shower daily plus the ac condensate drains into the sump. When it’s failed, it over flows into the forward bilge. It’s get stinky pretty fast.

 

[rslifkin]

I have the Gulper and a sump with a float switch. It works extremely well. If the noise is the issue, wrap the pump in sound insulation material.

Ted

When the gulper is hooked directly to the shower drain without a sump, the noise isn't from the pump body, but you get a perpetual slurping noise from the shower drain while the pump is on, especially if the water flow rate into the shower is slower than the pump suction (which is usually the case).

 

[Lou_tribal]

I have a shower draining directly to the sump and a bilge pump pumping the water overboard and want to change it to something similar to what you have. I would not recommend to drain the shower directly to the sump from my experience:
1. You need to clean the sump quite often if you don't want to have odour from stagnant water.
2. Cleaning the sump is a dirty job and really not something I enjoy to do.

There is a pump with an automated switch that start the pump when detecting water through the sink if that bother you to have to switch it on (don't remember the brand of it)

L

 

[Pau Hana]

Another vote for the Gulper- it is noisier than the Rule sump I took out years ago, but I haven't cleaned out a sump box since.

We went with the intelligent pump that senses when when the water is turned on, and cuts off after the shower is done.

 

[DDW]

The Gulper is a much better system, unless you like cleaning skin, hair, and who knows what from the sump every few weeks. The only thing I'd run into the sump is the AC drain, as it is a drip. I didn't follow the whole explanation, but Whale makes an automatic switch for the pump that will turn it on when you shower or use the sink.

 

[Xsbank]

That is the same system I have on my shower and yes, noisy, but pretty much bulletproof. Don’t filter the discharge.

Personally, that would go on my job list to replumb but I’d definitely keep the pump. In fact, I would also remove all sumps and replace with a similar setup. Can you make you sink drain by gravity?

 

[Slowmo]

Our boat also has the pump system but uses a diaphragm pump which doesn't need a filter. The benefit of this system is that it doesn't require a sump and the associated problems with float switches. The downside is the noise and that you have to actively turn it on. Though in our case we have a teak grate so that you can leave the pump off until the pan fills to the bottom of the grate (a few gallons). Then we just pump out when we're done. Works well with no sump concerns.

 

[Wayfarer]

I also have a gulper set up directly from the shower drain to overboard. I prefer it. As others have said, cleaning a sump is frequently necessary and always revolting.

My shower pump is on a spring loaded button, and only runs when I hold it down. I thought that might get annoying, but it hasn't. I run it until it gets loud maybe three times during a shower, and then hold it down for maybe 20 seconds at the end to get the rest of it.

It'd make a good third bilge pump if the turds ever hit the fan.

 

[Xsbank]

Speaking of turds, is that pump in the photo a macerator pump? Or maybe a pressure water pump? That might explain why it’s so noisy? The diaphragm pump I have is enthusiastic but not too loud, needs no filters.

 

[catalinajack]

We have an exposed shower sump (easy access) and have been living aboard for four years. I have never had to clean the sump. Occasionally, I sprinkle in some No-Flex holding tank enzymatic digestor. Works for me, no odor, mostly clear water. The Rule float switch and bilge pump was in place when we bought the boat six years ago and just keeps working, never a clog. I suppose if it ever becomes a problem I will consider one of the alternatives mentioned here.

I have a shower draining directly to the sump and a bilge pump pumping the water overboard and want to change it to something similar to what you have. I would not recommend to drain the shower directly to the sump from my experience:
1. You need to clean the sump quite often if you don't want to have odour from stagnant water.
2. Cleaning the sump is a dirty job and really not something I enjoy to do.

There is a pump with an automated switch that start the pump when detecting water through the sink if that bother you to have to switch it on (don't remember the brand of it)

L

 

[Bacchus]

All 3 - shower, sink & AC on mine go to a conventional sump and I'm thinking of adding / changing over to the Whale Gulper. If you eliminate the Gulper I'll buy it!
The sump small bilge pump is slow and shower doesn't always stay empty - I suspect that was the PO reason for the change. The horizontal run of the old hose probably didn't help.
Whale does sell a Y fitting that will accommodate sink & shower and with the auto on/off sensor would be my preference if you can't dump the sink directly overboard.
What I don't know but wondering is if a slightly larger inlet hose would eliminate the slurping noise you mentioned or move it away from the shower pan nearer the pump inlet?
It looks like the pump discharge hose is larger.
Could the original shower hose be connected back to the drain and reduced to a 1" where it has been cut off.
It would require pulling the shower drain fitting to investigate it further if the noise is problem enough it warrants work to explore.
Bottom line, I agree with others that the Gulper is superior to a sump & small bilge pump... I'd keep it and try to modify if the noise is too much.

 

[JohnEasley]

Thanks for taking a look and weighing in, everyone. The general consensus seems to be to remove the inline hair trap and replace the FrankenHose output with a single hose. If anyone knows of a link to a retrofit sensor to automatically turn on the pump when it senses water, that would be appreciated.

John

 

[ranger58sb]

When they redid it, they apparently dropped some sort of insert into the drain that is attached to a 3/4” hose that runs through the old drain hose and to an aftermarket suction pump that discharges directly overboard. When showering, you have to flip on the switch for the suction pump and you can hear it slurping and gurgling through the drain.

In this photo of the drain, you can barely see the 3/4” hose insert under the cover plate.

The underside of the shower drain is not directly accessible. However, a few inches away, it exits through a stringer and comes out here:

Might be useful to check the integrity of the shower drain and the black hose shown in your first pic.

That's really the only other reason I could think of for the smaller inserted hose... given the rest of the white drain hose seems to have been relatively easily replaceable...

-Chris

 

[Woodstock]

I replaced my Rule sump system with a Whale sump and pump system and it works great. Because the showers drain into the sump, not into the inlet of the pump, it is surprisingly quiet. This sump has an integrated, solid state sensor with no moving parts for automatically operating the pump. The sump is sold as a separate item so you could integrate your pump into it.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Thanks for taking a look and weighing in, everyone. The general consensus seems to be to remove the inline hair trap and replace the FrankenHose output with a single hose. If anyone knows of a link to a retrofit sensor to automatically turn on the pump when it senses water, that would be appreciated.

John

This is the model I was thinking about:

https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/ind...0051|11357&product=53934574&code=766478945471

Not cheap though.

L

 

[Bacchus]

This is the model I was thinking about:

https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/ind...0051|11357&product=53934574&code=766478945471
Not cheap though.
L

And here's the one with dual inlet if wanting to include the sink is a benefit.
https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/ind...0051|11357&product=53971852&code=Whale WM8284

 

[MYTraveler]

I have the Gulper and a sump with a float switch. It works extremely well. If the noise is the issue, wrap the pump in sound insulation material.

Ted

That is my set up too. My sump holds about 40 gallons - easily big enough to handle the grey water from three showers / sinks. Normally, we leave the system powered so anytime there is enough water in the sump to trigger the float switch, the gulper pumps everything overboard. When we don't want a bunch of (even biodegradable) soap suds streaming from the back of our boat, we flip the switch off and let those soap suds accumulate in the sump.

 

[jimdavi]

Gulper