Regional Bottom Paint

[CraigC]

Since the reformulation of the SR version of Trinidad (due to the unavailability of the anti slime ingredient, Irgarol), I cannot wholeheartedly recommend it. My recommendation would be to go with one of the older versions of Trinidad.

That is awesome to know... Many thanks!!!

BTW, do divers prefer lighter colors, such as "bikini blue?"

 

[fstbttms]

...do divers prefer lighter colors, such as "bikini blue?"

Yes. Nobody loves black bottom paint.

 

[dhays]

I think everyone was interpreting this that you had already purchased the boat, but now that we know it's a survey allowing you to see this, not ending up with the boat might be the best thing. You've got a litany of problems. Make sure you have solid estimates from quality yards before you follow through on the purchase. Or insist the owner repair it all and then talk about the purchase. And I'd base the reductions I'd want on price on the amount a good yard will charge. Then if you choose to DIY that's fine.

The $3600 is already spent. It's been well worth it. Don't feel like you must buy the boat to justify the survey.

I agree with this 100%. Get more than a couple estimates to do the work, add tax, and then add 10%-15% to be safe. Then see if the boat is still worth the agreed upon price. If not, then try and renegotiate.

Good luck.

 

[BandB]

I recalled recently reading an article relevant to this conversation and the bottom shown as well as what may be a blister or blisters. This was in ACY's newsletter.

The question presented was:

I’m noticing some blisters appearing just below the waterline on a vessel I purchased a year ago. The boat received a bottom job just before I bought it, and it looked good. Now I’m concerned that the blisters could be part of a bigger problem. What is the best way to determine the severity of the situation?​

The response was:

Bottom blistering is not uncommon, but it can become a real problem if not fixed properly. It’s possible that improper repairs were performed on your vessel that simply masked the underlying cause. Without knowing your vessel’s bottom maintenance history, the only sure way to address the issue is to completely strip the hull and have the blisters repaired properly by a qualified boatyard. This is particularly important if you have a heavy build-up of bottom paint​

I'd also point out that to strip hulls like this they use EcoStrip. I don't know how many others do. Here is a link to their site.

Surface Cleaning | Graffiti Removal, Marine Cleaning and Surface Restoration

 

[CraigC]

Thanks - I will find out what the yard uses... That reminds me of other posts I have seen discussing epoxy barrier coats. I suppose I should have the bottom taken all the way down to gel and then have any blisters corrected, and then lay down a barrier coat before the finish bottom paint?

 

[Ted]

Thanks - I will find out what the yard uses... That reminds me of other posts I have seen discussing epoxy barrier coats. I suppose I should have the bottom taken all the way down to gel and then have any blisters corrected, and then lay down a barrier coat before the finish bottom paint?

Don't consider doing this until after you have bought the boat


Ted

 

[BandB]

Thanks - I will find out what the yard uses... That reminds me of other posts I have seen discussing epoxy barrier coats. I suppose I should have the bottom taken all the way down to gel and then have any blisters corrected, and then lay down a barrier coat before the finish bottom paint?

We use hard bottom paints and one of the valid criticisms of doing so is the build up. There come times that one just needs to strip and start over. Unfortunately, it's also quite possible for one to paint over and hide problems. If one is getting a bottom stripped and painted, I'd recommend looking at the boat with the yard when it's been stripped. That's the time to see everything regardless of how insignificant.

Unfortunately, it's also an fairly open ended potential of cost due to what one may or may not find.

One argument DIY'er's make that is very valid as well, is that by doing the work, they know what is there and what has been done. However, when purchasing a boat, no one can know until the first time it's done.

 

[Brisyboy]

Craig, now I know the boat is not yet yours, I thought one pic showed an opened up blister, hard just looking at a pic, but on any view the bottom is a mess. Tread carefully whether you proceed, was the boat fairly represented during the purchase process as a "project"? Be ruthless on allowances, no matter how much is allowed it`s rarely enough.
George, Malagari`antifoul must be well due by now. I remember the broker Anchorline telling me she spent 3 months on the hard drying out during an osmosis fix. My a/f was done this week, 20 months with Jotun Seaguardian, a thick layer of slime and little else. The yard remarked how much heavier cans of Jotun are compared to cans of their usual Altex, which hopefully means more good stuff in the paint. The prop edges had little if any propspeed left.Sandbrook Inlet is shallow in parts, based on that the yard advised hard a/f for the gear, not more propspeed.

Bruce,

Malagari came out yesterday - about 18 months since we bought her - hull in perfect condition and anti foul still good - worn down to a thin layer so only needing a light sand in a few places then antifoul (Jotun Seaguardian) what was surprising/pleasing was the Propspeed on the shafts and props = near perfect although it had the start of minor break down and wouldn`t last another 18months so that will be redone. - all in all I am really pleased - a bit disconcerting though when the other guys at the slip make a comment - "geez your bum looks good"

 

[BruceK]

Thanks folks. So, Trinidad SR, yes?

Twistedtree, the insurer came back and stated that the vessel cannot be operated until the survey recommendations are corrected. I guess it was worse than I thought it was (just the hull survey - insurer did not see the engine survey). And the policy premium quoted was about $2600/yr with an $8,000 deductible.

If the owner now knows that,their position becomes more difficult. As is their boat is uninsurable for normal use How could they even use the boat with that knowledge,surely it would likely be contrary to their obligations to their insurer.
Any other buyer will likely hit the same brick wall. Completing a deal with you is their best option, unless a flipper buyer with ready access to cheap repair work emerges. The power in negotiation is strongly yours. Though I sense you have a commendable fair attitude to the seller, you have to manage your own interests, and the problem of acquiring this boat just got bigger.
Do you have to disclose the engine survey to your insurer? Here, I would be obliged to disclose it as affecting the risk.

 

[CraigC]

Thanks, all. Yeah, well, my broker says he has never heard such a thing about a boat being simply un-insurable "as-is."

I have only ever seen this survey. I have nothing to measure it against, exactly how bad it is.

I have read threads on TF about how buyers are trying to nitpick sellers, resulting in much animosity between parties, and deals going down the tubes that should not have.

I have been forgiving of what seem like they should be minor details - pumps not working, electric things hanging down from the ceiling, non-structural rot that is pointless to try to repair, etc.

I will see how the seller responds to my request. It will pain me if they are not receptive. It seems like I am being fair. But how would I know...? My broker thinks the insurance agent is out to lunch and says the boat is "not that bad..." Broker seems like a righteous, caring person, and is not being pushy, and had no issue with me putting in the repair allowance addendum at what I wanted.

 

[BandB]

Thanks, all. Yeah, well, my broker says he has never heard such a thing about a boat being simply un-insurable "as-is."

I have only ever seen this survey. I have nothing to measure it against, exactly how bad it is.

I have read threads on TF about how buyers are trying to nitpick sellers, resulting in much animosity between parties, and deals going down the tubes that should not have.

I have been forgiving of what seem like they should be minor details - pumps not working, electric things hanging down from the ceiling, non-structural rot that is pointless to try to repair, etc.

I will see how the seller responds to my request. It will pain me if they are not receptive. It seems like I am being fair. But how would I know...? My broker thinks the insurance agent is out to lunch and says the boat is "not that bad..." Broker seems like a righteous, caring person, and is not being pushy, and had no issue with me putting in the repair allowance addendum at what I wanted.

Does broker sound righteous and caring because he is or because he is good at sounding that way? I don't know.

As to uninsurable, I've seen many potential sales that the given insurer wouldn't insure until some corrections made. Normally not the entire list. But look at it this way. Now,is it uninsurable? I doubt it. Probably someone, some where who would insure it for some price. However, the insurer is looking out for your interests too and you need to look at which items are serious and which ones could be safely lived with.

 

[CraigC]

Yeah, very good points. I don't doubt the broker. I was referred to him by a trusted soul, and as a Realtor, I have learned what to say that will spike a "BS needle" if needed, and he passed a few of those tests.

Broker said "hold off on stripping the whole bottom, it may not be necessary and you need to set up a priority list first" which is essentially what you and Ted and others told me, too.

You're right - less than half of the survey recs were starred as critical, and the Insurer said that he felt those were the ones the u/w wanted to see done.

The yard said Micron 66 and Ultra were upcharges.. Without any sanding or extra prep (which this boat really needs), the bottom job costs $3044-3320 including haul-out. I guess the Pettit Trinidad I was suggested to use would fall on the lower end of that. But the extra prep is $97/hour... Would not surprise me if the bottom cost doubled, as a result...

 

[gaston]

Craig sorry sort of for been blunt but I think you have convinced your self a long time ago to purchase this boat do or die .
Ive been down the track of 5 surveys and learnt if a boat dosn't come up to a 95% its a project boat. Little tell tails like wires hanging around lots of small jobs need doing tell me the owner isn't one that would worry about the big things like you are finding. And what ever you think its going to cost double it and add 50% I think that's the formula boat yards use

 

[CraigC]

M. Gaston, sir, I don't disagree on any particular point.

I have gone back to the seller with response accordingly. But I am not worried - I can walk away from this boat, if logic and good sense warrant.

But yes, you're right.

 

[CraigC]

The seller was not flexible. So, I have to pay her price, which I am now doing. I take possession next Weds.

I have about $20K cash to put towards the mechanical fixes needed, which leaves me with a $25K cash cushion.

But I will need to do the bottom sanding and painting myself. Hopefully it's not terribly difficult to do. Bottom sanding and painting on a 53'x16' pilothouse - not too tough, just a few days of manual labor? I have no plans for the Xmas and New Years holidays. Well, no OTHER plans.

 

[fstbttms]

Bottom sanding and painting on a 53'x16' pilothouse - not too tough, just a few days of manual labor?

Bwhahahaha! :lol:

 

[BruceK]

The Admiral and I did a full dry bottom sand on the IG following osmosis repairs, only 36ft but took an entire day each side, using the commercial sanders the yard lent us. Filthy nasty job, lying on planks, sanding overhead, using surgical masks and caps. Should we have done it wet, maybe, but it would have been messier, wet electric sanders.....but a very good smooth result, worth the hassle. Yours is 53ft, have fun!

 

[CraigC]

Bwhahahaha! :lol:

Your enthusiasm is noted, buddy! Since you'll probably be the one cleaning it off mid-season, how about you make your future job easier by helping me out?

Bruce, thanks for your encouragement. On dirt, I have proved adept at this sort of thing. I know it doesn't translate 1:1, but at $97/hour, I think it's worth a try.

I will see what I can work out with the yard. So far, I am very unimpressed with KKMI. And that is putting it kindly. But maybe they will prove me wrong. They have a good rep, so I am open to giving them the opportunity.