Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-17-2016, 07:43 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
City: FT.Pierce, Fl
Vessel Name: Tuna Talk
Vessel Model: CC Tournament 30
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 150
HiDHo - your post took a side track so I'll reign it back in. In Florida I've always had great success with the Trinidad brand. High copper content...works well in the warmer water. I'm pulling my boat this weekend after slightly more than two years on two coats of Trinidad (red), sitting in brackish water.
Jim Cooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 08:58 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
CraigC's Avatar
 
City: Bay Area CA
Vessel Name: Tango
Vessel Model: Nordlund Boat Co - 1978 Custom 53 Pilothouse
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 104
Sorry for hijacking the thread, I just was maybe a little bit too bashful to start my own new thread, and should not have revived a 2 1/2 month old one.

Anyway, Pettit makes hard as well as ablative paints. I am sure that there are "Pettit vs Interlux" debates ad nauseum. Seeing that we're not talking about anchors here, maybe I can still ask, I will need a hard paint rather than an ablative, do folks overall have a better experience with Pettit, rather than Interlux products?

I'm still intrigued by Jotun's SeaForce 30, which I have heard little about here in the US.
CraigC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 09:07 PM   #23
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,517
Thanks for the pics,I definitely get the appeal of the boat. Equally, I`m wary the visible bits look good, the bits underwater you can`t, look, well, . Make sure that doesn`t apply elsewhere, did you do a mechanical survey?
If you drastically clean back the hull as you probably should, you may have to make good the whole underwater surface before primer and antifoul. Big job but, it might be worth it, so take it step by step in negotiation, it`s not like you will easily get gazumped.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 09:19 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
CraigC's Avatar
 
City: Bay Area CA
Vessel Name: Tango
Vessel Model: Nordlund Boat Co - 1978 Custom 53 Pilothouse
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 104
Thanks Bruce! Yeah the triple nickels did not like WOT, but they made it anyway, 15 kts. I have been given excellent advice by D.Marchand and Clark Leighs. Gensets have their niggles but can be dealt with. A few boat bucks in repairs. The worst is the nonskid, which was applied over OLD nonskid apparently, and the rest of the paint prep was, not so good.

The new nonskid didn't take to the surface. Other areas were patched where they were not adhering. Survey(or) says? "Not soft... Just poor paint prep. Can be stripped and redone." Project manager says maybe USD $15-20K.
Attached Thumbnails
Nonskid bubbles.jpg   Nonskid bubbles 2.jpg  
CraigC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 09:42 PM   #25
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,812
Maybe the MODS can split this thread.

It's very confusing to be talking of two different boats and issues interchangeably.
At least for me.

As for OP, I was going to use the Jotun, but on recommendation of the yard, switched to International's Intersmooth 360 SPC. Very happy with it.

And Craig C, Run, don't Walk Away.
The fact that you think the yard has not done work properly at $300k means you will be fixing that yard's work for years to come.
For that munch money, there should be no obvious issues; instead it seems to have nothing but issues.
__________________
Richard on Dauntless,
New York

a Kadey Krogen 42 currently: https://share.garmin.com/dauntless
Blog:
https://dauntlessatsea.com
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 09:51 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
CraigC's Avatar
 
City: Bay Area CA
Vessel Name: Tango
Vessel Model: Nordlund Boat Co - 1978 Custom 53 Pilothouse
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wxx3 View Post
The fact that you think the yard has not done work properly at $300k means you will be fixing that yard's work for years to come.
It's a bit of a scandal at the yard. This is one of the more highly regarded boatyards in the SF Bay. The seller, having just learned of the paint failure, called in and asked about a workmanship warranty, and they said no, it's too far in the past.

I didn't even make a stink about the other questionable quality paint prep work.

I am trying not to seem "cheap" or overly nitpicky. But it is an issue, yeah. Thanks for your perspective. And for another suggestion about the bottom paint!
CraigC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 12:26 PM   #27
Guru
 
fstbttms's Avatar
 
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
Hi all, here is a photo of the bottom when the boat was hauled yesterday. 1st time boat owner, really. How do I know if it is "time?"

Also, for water temps 57-60 degrees and year-round mooring in the San Francisco Bay, what is the consensus for bottom paint?

Sand to smooth, then Pro Line primer, and Interlux Ultra? Or what?
The "scorching" around the fittings is due to improperly primed metal. The copper-based anti fouling paint is reacting with it.

In San Francisco Bay, your best paint choices are (and have been for years) Interlux Micron 66 (hybrid ablative) or Pettit Trinidad (hard).
__________________
Clean bottoms are FastBottoms!
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 12:31 PM   #28
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Walkabout Creek
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8,219
Earlier someone suggested you not feel obliged to fix everything right away, and get sucked into a giant money pit of a project.

If you buy the boat, I think that's really good advice. I agree that the halo paint failures around the thruhull is likely a result of improper bonding and/or over zincing. I'd probably check that, so a quick touch up of bottom paint, and go cruising.

Over time you can build your project list, and prioritize it. If the non-skid issue isn't causing water intrusion and isn't going to trip someone, I'd leave it alone for now. After using a boat for a while, things that seemed very important initially often become less important, and new things step up and take their place in the priority list.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 01:42 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
CraigC's Avatar
 
City: Bay Area CA
Vessel Name: Tango
Vessel Model: Nordlund Boat Co - 1978 Custom 53 Pilothouse
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 104
Thanks folks. So, Trinidad SR, yes?

Twistedtree, the insurer came back and stated that the vessel cannot be operated until the survey recommendations are corrected. I guess it was worse than I thought it was (just the hull survey - insurer did not see the engine survey). And the policy premium quoted was about $2600/yr with an $8,000 deductible.
CraigC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 02:03 PM   #30
Guru
 
fstbttms's Avatar
 
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
Thanks folks. So, Trinidad SR, yes?
Since the reformulation of the SR version of Trinidad (due to the unavailability of the anti slime ingredient, Irgarol), I cannot wholeheartedly recommend it. My recommendation would be to go with one of the older versions of Trinidad.
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 02:34 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
CraigC's Avatar
 
City: Bay Area CA
Vessel Name: Tango
Vessel Model: Nordlund Boat Co - 1978 Custom 53 Pilothouse
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Since the reformulation of the SR version of Trinidad (due to the unavailability of the anti slime ingredient, Irgarol), I cannot wholeheartedly recommend it. My recommendation would be to go with one of the older versions of Trinidad.
That is awesome to know... Many thanks!!!

BTW, do divers prefer lighter colors, such as "bikini blue?"
CraigC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 02:44 PM   #32
Guru
 
fstbttms's Avatar
 
City: Under a boat, in a marina in the San Francisco Bay
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
...do divers prefer lighter colors, such as "bikini blue?"
Yes. Nobody loves black bottom paint.
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 02:47 PM   #33
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I think everyone was interpreting this that you had already purchased the boat, but now that we know it's a survey allowing you to see this, not ending up with the boat might be the best thing. You've got a litany of problems. Make sure you have solid estimates from quality yards before you follow through on the purchase. Or insist the owner repair it all and then talk about the purchase. And I'd base the reductions I'd want on price on the amount a good yard will charge. Then if you choose to DIY that's fine.

The $3600 is already spent. It's been well worth it. Don't feel like you must buy the boat to justify the survey.
I agree with this 100%. Get more than a couple estimates to do the work, add tax, and then add 10%-15% to be safe. Then see if the boat is still worth the agreed upon price. If not, then try and renegotiate.

Good luck.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 03:00 PM   #34
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,451
I recalled recently reading an article relevant to this conversation and the bottom shown as well as what may be a blister or blisters. This was in ACY's newsletter.

The question presented was:

I’m noticing some blisters appearing just below the waterline on a vessel I purchased a year ago. The boat received a bottom job just before I bought it, and it looked good. Now I’m concerned that the blisters could be part of a bigger problem. What is the best way to determine the severity of the situation?


The response was:

Bottom blistering is not uncommon, but it can become a real problem if not fixed properly. It’s possible that improper repairs were performed on your vessel that simply masked the underlying cause. Without knowing your vessel’s bottom maintenance history, the only sure way to address the issue is to completely strip the hull and have the blisters repaired properly by a qualified boatyard. This is particularly important if you have a heavy build-up of bottom paint


I'd also point out that to strip hulls like this they use EcoStrip. I don't know how many others do. Here is a link to their site.

Surface Cleaning | Graffiti Removal, Marine Cleaning and Surface Restoration
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 03:04 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
CraigC's Avatar
 
City: Bay Area CA
Vessel Name: Tango
Vessel Model: Nordlund Boat Co - 1978 Custom 53 Pilothouse
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 104
Thanks - I will find out what the yard uses... That reminds me of other posts I have seen discussing epoxy barrier coats. I suppose I should have the bottom taken all the way down to gel and then have any blisters corrected, and then lay down a barrier coat before the finish bottom paint?
CraigC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 03:13 PM   #36
Ted
Guru
 
Ted's Avatar
 
City: Campbell River
Vessel Name: Okisollo
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 765
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
Thanks - I will find out what the yard uses... That reminds me of other posts I have seen discussing epoxy barrier coats. I suppose I should have the bottom taken all the way down to gel and then have any blisters corrected, and then lay down a barrier coat before the finish bottom paint?
Don't consider doing this until after you have bought the boat


Ted
Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 03:18 PM   #37
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
Thanks - I will find out what the yard uses... That reminds me of other posts I have seen discussing epoxy barrier coats. I suppose I should have the bottom taken all the way down to gel and then have any blisters corrected, and then lay down a barrier coat before the finish bottom paint?
We use hard bottom paints and one of the valid criticisms of doing so is the build up. There come times that one just needs to strip and start over. Unfortunately, it's also quite possible for one to paint over and hide problems. If one is getting a bottom stripped and painted, I'd recommend looking at the boat with the yard when it's been stripped. That's the time to see everything regardless of how insignificant.

Unfortunately, it's also an fairly open ended potential of cost due to what one may or may not find.

One argument DIY'er's make that is very valid as well, is that by doing the work, they know what is there and what has been done. However, when purchasing a boat, no one can know until the first time it's done.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 04:30 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
Brisyboy's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Malagari
Vessel Model: Island Gypsy 36 Europa
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Craig, now I know the boat is not yet yours, I thought one pic showed an opened up blister, hard just looking at a pic, but on any view the bottom is a mess. Tread carefully whether you proceed, was the boat fairly represented during the purchase process as a "project"? Be ruthless on allowances, no matter how much is allowed it`s rarely enough.
George, Malagari`antifoul must be well due by now. I remember the broker Anchorline telling me she spent 3 months on the hard drying out during an osmosis fix. My a/f was done this week, 20 months with Jotun Seaguardian, a thick layer of slime and little else. The yard remarked how much heavier cans of Jotun are compared to cans of their usual Altex, which hopefully means more good stuff in the paint. The prop edges had little if any propspeed left.Sandbrook Inlet is shallow in parts, based on that the yard advised hard a/f for the gear, not more propspeed.
Bruce,

Malagari came out yesterday - about 18 months since we bought her - hull in perfect condition and anti foul still good - worn down to a thin layer so only needing a light sand in a few places then antifoul (Jotun Seaguardian) what was surprising/pleasing was the Propspeed on the shafts and props = near perfect although it had the start of minor break down and wouldn`t last another 18months so that will be redone. - all in all I am really pleased - a bit disconcerting though when the other guys at the slip make a comment - "geez your bum looks good"
__________________
George
Brisbane
IG 36 Europa
Brisyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 05:55 PM   #39
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
Thanks folks. So, Trinidad SR, yes?

Twistedtree, the insurer came back and stated that the vessel cannot be operated until the survey recommendations are corrected. I guess it was worse than I thought it was (just the hull survey - insurer did not see the engine survey). And the policy premium quoted was about $2600/yr with an $8,000 deductible.
If the owner now knows that,their position becomes more difficult. As is their boat is uninsurable for normal use How could they even use the boat with that knowledge,surely it would likely be contrary to their obligations to their insurer.
Any other buyer will likely hit the same brick wall. Completing a deal with you is their best option, unless a flipper buyer with ready access to cheap repair work emerges. The power in negotiation is strongly yours. Though I sense you have a commendable fair attitude to the seller, you have to manage your own interests, and the problem of acquiring this boat just got bigger.
Do you have to disclose the engine survey to your insurer? Here, I would be obliged to disclose it as affecting the risk.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 07:14 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
CraigC's Avatar
 
City: Bay Area CA
Vessel Name: Tango
Vessel Model: Nordlund Boat Co - 1978 Custom 53 Pilothouse
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 104
Thanks, all. Yeah, well, my broker says he has never heard such a thing about a boat being simply un-insurable "as-is."

I have only ever seen this survey. I have nothing to measure it against, exactly how bad it is.

I have read threads on TF about how buyers are trying to nitpick sellers, resulting in much animosity between parties, and deals going down the tubes that should not have.

I have been forgiving of what seem like they should be minor details - pumps not working, electric things hanging down from the ceiling, non-structural rot that is pointless to try to repair, etc.

I will see how the seller responds to my request. It will pain me if they are not receptive. It seems like I am being fair. But how would I know...? My broker thinks the insurance agent is out to lunch and says the boat is "not that bad..." Broker seems like a righteous, caring person, and is not being pushy, and had no issue with me putting in the repair allowance addendum at what I wanted.
CraigC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012