Rebuilt H-50 Flybridge Helm - much googling - advice appreciaterd

[Gnawzzy]

1987 Carver 3607, 3 line hynautic h-50 helms upper and lower. Lower works perfectly, upper does literally nothing.

So I pull out the upper and rebuild it. The old seals are all toast, so this is a worthwhile endeavor. I reinstalled it, go through bleeding instructions precisely.

After all that, the steering problem is literally the same. Lower works exactly perfectly, upper does exactly nothing. Fluid and pressure after bleeding hold steady, so I don't think the system leaks.

My questions are as follows:

If there were air in the system, still, wouldn't that affect the operation of the lower helm? Is it possible there's air trapped in the upper end of the system preventing the upper helm from working at all and not affecting the lower helm even a little?

When I bleed it, I back out the two relief valve screws, turn upper helm right like a thousand times, turn lower helm right like a thousand times, and then back out the small hex-key set screw on the BOTTOM of the steering cylinder - there's one on each end of the cylinder opposite the fluid fitting. This is the correct place to bleed the cylinder, right? What a bitch, huh? Trying to back that thing out on the under side where I can't see it, and when oil runs out, it runs all over my hand and tool.

When doing the bleed procedure, while spinning the upper helm to one direction, nothing happens at all at the reservalve. When spinning the lower helm, the reservalve churns and pressure briefly builds. What does this indicate?

Again, to clarify, I disassembled the upper helm and put in a new HS-05 seal kit. It appears to be assembled correctly, turns smoothly, and is not leaking.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. I just spent a week tearing apart this stupid helm, waiting for seals and fittings, getting fluid all over everything, getting it all back together, going through a ridiculously complicated bleed process, just to have gained exactly 0 change in the operation of anything. Hopefully there's an answer or two in this somewhere.

Thanx!
ae

 

[smitty477]

Over the years I have likely done a dozen of these and 90% of the time it is air in the system so please make sure you followed the bleed and pressure exactly per the specs.
When backing out the reservalve you do not go past the staked limits - turn out gingerly until they stop. When the system is pressurized at about 25 psi you should get a little fluid from each outside hose to the upper helm if you 'crack' open the fittings slightly.
I have never had to back out the hex key on the steering cylinder to get a good bleed.
Here is the link on the rebuild and at the bottom is another link on bleeding the system.
Hydraulic Helm Rebuild

 

[Gnawzzy]

Thanks so much for the reply.

The purge instructions say, in step 6, to "back off the socket head cap screw" at both ens of the cylinder in each step. That's the same thing as I'm talking about, right? And you're saying you don't do that step when you bleed it? Where do you let the air out, then?

 

[smitty477]

"The purge instructions say, in step 6, to "back off the socket head cap screw" at both ens of the cylinder in each step. That's the same thing as I'm talking about, right? And you're saying you don't do that step when you bleed it?"


No I do not bother with the dead ends at the cylinder after helm rebuilds as there is no way air was to enter that area.


"Where do you let the air out, then?"
When you open the reservalve and turn the wheel slowly in one direction only you have constructed a large loop of fluid through that side of the system. As the air bubbles through the system it will eventually hit the reservoir where it will rise to the top lowering the level slightly. After you do both side twice slowly there will be no air left in the lines to bleed out but you may need to add fluid to the reservoir and re-pressurize it.
Then yo retighten the reservalve so the steering is again engaging the cylinder and causing rudder rotation.


This is your only statement that concerns me "When doing the bleed procedure, while spinning the upper helm to one direction, nothing happens at all at the reservalve."


I am hoping you are airbound on one line near the top helm and that is why you are not pulling thru fluid. If not the next place to look would be inside the helm which is a pain as you know. The 3 larger "O" rings that separate the fluid channels need to be assembled without any pinching at all so that is another area that would cause only one direction to work.
Please ensure that the air is all out - then see if it only turns the rudder one way or both ways.
Good luck