REALLY Frustrating Brightwork Issue

[Benchmark]

You've got splits, and they were moist. You'll need to dry them out, use a thin blade to cot a very thin slot, then epoxy dribble with just a bit of epoxy to fill the crack using the end of a wooden toothpick or a sewing needle. You absolutely need to get back to a sound even surface before varnish. Good luck!

 

[AnnapolisJim]

Welcome to the world of brightwork. Two things: One, your boat is in Florida which is the worst place to maintain varnish. Second, I think you used Minwax Helmsman Spar Varnish. A couple years ago I tested various varnishes. The first one to fail was Minwax Helmsman varnish. In the future, use Epithanes or Pettit Captains Varnish. Of course the old standby is Cetol which we purist of brightwork don't really like but it is the most user friendly and does standup well to the elements. We love our brightwork but.......

 

[Maerin]

Prep.
The key to any finish.

 

[Destinees]

The professional guidance that I received a long time ago.

After preparing your trim, use a high quality varnish, begin by diluting it with the product's associated reducer 50-50% for the first coat, then 75-25%, and then 95-5%, to soak down into and seal the wood for multiple layers, and then continue finishing with three to six additional 100% varnish coats. Of course this should be applied 4 to 6 hours between coats (to adhere to the previous) or light scratch before each coat, and yes never apply varnish when any dampness is possible. Of course I take the easy way out, lightly scratch sanding and then apply 2 to 3 more coats quarterly, or at least 3 times a year. For places that have been scratched or worn start over with the diluted process, in those areas. So, every time we stay over somewhere for a month, I work the brightwork into the nicest days, working on about 25 to 40% of the overall wood surface each time, continuously moving around the boat so that every year it all looks really good. Unfortunately, we left our boat for a year and I too now have spots that I need to really work on again, when the weather permits. It's not work, it is relaxation and pleasure in accomplishing the beautiful look that you desire.

 

[MV Caroline]

Definitely moisture intrusion. Note the black areas.

 

[Art]

After preparing your trim, use a high quality varnish, begin by diluting it with the product's associated reducer 50-50% for the first coat, then 75-25%, and then 95-5%, to soak down into and seal the wood for multiple layers, and then continue finishing with three to six additional 100% varnish coats. Of course this should be applied 4 to 6 hours between coats (to adhere to the previous) or light scratch before each coat, and yes never apply varnish when any dampness is possible. Of course I take the easy way out, lightly scratch sanding and then apply 2 to 3 more coats quarterly, or at least 3 times a year. For places that have been scratched or worn start over with the diluted process, in those areas. So, every time we stay over somewhere for a month, I work the brightwork into the nicest days, working on about 25 to 40% of the overall wood surface each time, continuously moving around the boat so that every year it all looks really good. Unfortunately, we left our boat for a year and I too now have spots that I need to really work on again, when the weather permits. It's not work, it is relaxation and pleasure in accomplishing the beautiful look that you desire.

Very, verrrry inclusive and correct. Wow - a lot of effort.

Late 50's to mid 70's I did a lot of varnish work on boats in New England states. Virtually there is no end to the prep and application work that can be accomplished to produce the absolute best varnish finish.

IMO: Ya just gotta luv and there just isn't anything more beautiful that 15 coats varnish on a great piece of old growth Honduran Mahogany.

 

[Hippocampus]

Europeans let it go gray. That’s ok if you do a fungicide wash every once in awhile. Worse thing you can do is use those two bottles of teak cleaner. Teak has a marked difference between soft wood and hard wood. Every time you use those two bottle systems you take out the soft and leave the hard. Eventually the hard splinters off. That’s why untreated teak decks last longer.
We still are old school as posted above. Scrape out the joints murantic acid if discolored. Acetone washes ,sand 8-10 coats of epiphanes, caulk. We do sand between coats and hand sand with the grain 400-600 depending on how many days between coats. End grain in joints soaks up thinned varnish. So your usual routine suffices. Haven’t seen the need for sealer.
If in the tropics you usually rig shade covers on the whole boat. If they don’t suffice to cover your varnish work buy or make fitted covers for those areas. We’d also meticulously wash salt off (god bless water makers). Dried salt is quite abrasive. So a sponge with household vinegar then fresh is quick and easy.
Be a shame to put in all that work and have it fail due to the minimal maintenance required. Guess Florida is more difficult than the islands. Sun almost as strong but higher humidity.

 

[Ruffryder]

Helmsman Spar varnish is all I have been using last past years...
they hold up great, but I do build up a couple more coats every 6-7 months or so.
She needs to be maintained much sooner with Florida sun.

 

[menzies]

All stripped with the heat gun, sanded down and washed.

Rain due tomorrow so waiting for a forecast of two days with no rain to wash with acetone and then get the first three or four coats of Epifanes on.

BTW, West Marine are selling a quart of Epifanes for $60. I ordered the kit that Jamestown Distributors are selling. Two quarts, two pails, two filters, two foam brushes. $79.

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/92/282579

 

[Simi 60]

For those here parading around as ultra smart painting their varnish will go silent about the time they sell the family yacht.

Possibly
Ours was cheap partly because the varnish was shot and the cost to bring it back was extensive and prospective buyers could not see past it.

Great for me as I had been avoiding boats with extensive varnish and wanted a painted finish

These are pleasure boats and people expect varnish.

There is no pleasure in varnish
But there is a shittonne of work, money and lost time on the water.

I'll happily take a haircut on price when I sell as I will have already saved plenty by not varnishing and, have had countless hours of extra enjoyment by not varnishing and really, if its all well presented and painted I can't imagine someone knocking a boat back simply because it didn't have varnish.

 

[Simi 60]

From back in the day working on superyachts I remember the timber guys doing several coats of epoxy resin to timber to get depth and stability before doing varnish.

 

[rgano]

Put two coats of CPES on that bare wood being sure to get the first varnish on the CPES in the 16-24 hour time frame to allow a bond as the CPES sets up. I had great success with this method.

 

[Maerin]

I'd recommend a base coat of Smith's CPES to start as well. Apply as many coats as you can, the directions are pretty good. Then start coating with Epifanes. If you use the CPES as a base, you needn't thin the Epifanes 50% since the wood will be sealed with the CPES. Sand the nxt to last coat of CPES to smooth it, but don't get crazy and go to the wood.If you do, simply re-coat and re-sand with less gusto. What Rich said on the last coat. Epifanes recommends wet sanding between coats, it's not a random suggestion. If you use a long 3M rubber sanding block, you'll end up with a smoother finish.



Better yet, get an Awlwood kit- primer and coating. It will outlast Epifanes 3:1. It can also be coated more than one coat in a day, and it looks great. You needn't sand between coats, but doing so after the 3rd coat or so will give you a nicer job. Wet sanding is better, add drops of Dawn in the water to help lubricate and also reduce contaminants.



Don't fret that the first couple coats aren't beautiful, the more coats, the deeper and smoother the finish will be.



If you use Awlwood, don't sand through the primer. Follow their instructions to the letter. Don't tack or wipe between coats with anything they don't recommend. You will screw it up. Don't let it get rained on for at least 10 hrs. with either product. Now's a good time to do it when the sun isn't so brutal and it's cooler. Overcast is great. The coating has a better chance to float out and flatten. If the sun IS out, try to cover the work until coating to keep it from heating up. Solar heating will make the coating flash off very fast and reduce your working time exponentially. Varnishing in the any wind is a hopeless waste of time. Try to do it early as soon as the dew is off and it won't drip down from overhangs! You can wet sand and prep early in the morning. Tack off just ahead of coating. I try to do a section, then tack & do the next. You can add a bit of brushing thinner between sections if you need to.



Couple of other tips- Use only JEN foam brushes. Anything else will be trouble. Don't brush to perfection, perfect your brushing- long even strokes. Apply it as evenly & quickly as possible, then MOVE ON! The more you dally, the worse it'll look. You must maintain that "wet edge" to avoid brush marks. Holidays (skips) aren't critical, you'll cover them the next coat, so learn to avoid them in the 1st place. If you chase them, you'll lose the wet edge, and your coating will go to hell in a handbasket. You can go back over rounded edges and swipe drips and sags after doing a section, but you must resist the compulsion to perfect. Take a quick swipe and move on. If you attempt it on a top or flat surface, you'll have a hot mess.


Enjoy!!

 

[Simi 60]

CPES and its same same copies is nothing more than expensive epoxy drastically diluted with cheap solvents and then sold at an expensive price.
On a warm day it evaporated faster than you can get it on, you can see the level of mixed product drop as you watch.

For decades we used west 105 epoxy thinned down with about 15% methylated spirits if needing to thin epoxy but on a warm day a decent laminating resin really doesn't need thinning, haven't used west 105 for a long time.

 

[Lou_tribal]

I would like to understand what is looked for when epoxying the wood before varnish?
Sealing the wood? That is exactly the purpose of using varnish on wood, to seal it and for outdoor varnish to protect it from UV.

L

 

[Datenight]

All stripped with the heat gun, sanded down and washed.

Rain due tomorrow so waiting for a forecast of two days with no rain to wash with acetone and then get the first three or four coats of Epifanes on.

If waiting more than 24 hours you will need to give it a light sanding before coating. Wood will oxidize and the grain close over time.

Rob

 

[menzies]

If waiting more than 24 hours you will need to give it a light sanding before coating. Wood will oxidize and the grain close over time.

Rob

Yep, will lightly run over with 100 grit again.

Will also go over it with the heat gun on a medium setting as well.

 

[Maerin]

I would like to understand what is looked for when epoxying the wood before varnish?
Sealing the wood? That is exactly the purpose of using varnish on wood, to seal it and for outdoor varnish to protect it from UV.

L

Good question.


Since I've done it both ways, I can say that an epoxy base goes longer between wooding. Varnish only is more prone to pull off the wood.
CPES claims a formulation that bonds better with wood. Claims... West OTOH, cautions against thinning. The CPES may be as others -who may or may not have experience with the product- have asserted, I have no way of determining either way, but I have had good results using CPES as a base for varnish.